Logos 4
Comments
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I too purchased the Mac Crossgrade. If I am being dense, I apologize. If I understand correctly, the people, place, and things as well as the other new tools are what makes this shine, correct? If so, are the Mac Upgrade customers required to purchase the new minimal crossgrade to use these features? Or are we only required to purchase it for the PC version? Either is fine with me, I just want to be clear. Last night I thought I would have to crossgrade the gold to get the features for 161.00. Now it looks like I might just be able to spend the 69.00 or is it free? Thanks.
“... every day in which I do not
penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture
is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the
firm ground of the Word of God.”0 -
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Same confusion here. Also did I read right. I can download the Alpha for Mac and still keep my 1.2.2 active?
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You should only have to purchase a resource once, no matter where you use it. So, if you own Platinum for instance, you could install the app on a Mac and a windows machine, get all of your resources on both, and sync all your data between the two.
User Interface Designer - Logos Bible Software
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Bryan,
Yes, you can install Logos 4 on the Mac and continue using 1.2.2. Logos 4 will not interfere with 1.2.2.
Joe,
If I understood Bob right, the difference is that the Mac engine will no longer cost. When finished, the Logos 4 engine for Mac will be free. Crossgrade, upgrade, etc would cost the same as the Windows version because of the resources, not because of the engine. But that's only if I read Bob correctly.
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Greetings!
I hate to be in the slow class... but that's probably where I'm at right now. I'm still a bit confused as to how this all works.
The new Alpha engine is free. Great. But what about functionality compared with Windows? I must say, I don't know much about Windows because I bought this last year specifically because it was available for the Mac. But I have played with it a bit in Windows.
Getting back to functionality... what about the things like the "add-ons" for Windows? Namely, the Biblical Persons. It was originally said, if my memory is good, that the new Mac version would have these features integrated and they would not be add-ons.
Now, if the engine is free, but you have to pay for resources... where does that leave these "add-ons"? To be able to use the Biblical people, do you have to buy something? I do seriously hope not.
I bought the Mac version 1 fully knowing that it was it not up to par with Windows. I have no problem with that; good things come to those who wait. But, I did make the purchase because the assurance was there that the new features would be made available... at no cost.
Does someone have an answer?
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Welcome brother Raymond.
The current Alpha release of L4mac is using the exact same code base as the Windows version. This means that all the features you see in the Windows version are already built into the Mac version we are now testing.
What the development team is doing now is designing the interface so we can access these features. As they design each new piece of the interface, we can play with these new features, learn how to use them, give feedback on our experience and improve it for the future.
IMHO, you are in the perfect place. You get to see each feature develop, learn how to use it one piece at a time, and in the end you will be much better at using it than if it was all thrown at you at once.
Please keep asking questions and join the Alpha team :-)
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Dewayne Davis said:
I too purchased the Mac Crossgrade. If I am being dense, I apologize. If I understand correctly, the people, place, and things as well as the other new tools are what makes this shine, correct? If so, are the Mac Upgrade customers required to purchase the new minimal crossgrade to use these features? Or are we only required to purchase it for the PC version? Either is fine with me, I just want to be clear. Last night I thought I would have to crossgrade the gold to get the features for 161.00. Now it looks like I might just be able to spend the 69.00 or is it free? Thanks.
I only ask because the response from Bob almost made it sound like since the Mac users already paid for the cross grade, they were not going to have to do it again... He didn't say that, but mixed with the post he was replying to, it could be taken that way... Thanks.
“... every day in which I do not
penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture
is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the
firm ground of the Word of God.”0 -
Thanks so much for your reply Joe. So, just to make sure I understand... those features are all eventually going to be incorporated for free. There's nothing additional that needs to be purchased. Right?
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Um, one more thing. How exactly do I obtain the Alpha version without paying for it? So sorry if this has already been explained, but I just can't find it.
Thanks!
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Br. Raymond Minot said:
So, just to make sure I understand... those features are all eventually going to be incorporated for free. There's nothing additional that needs to be purchased. Right?
Unfortunately, no, not exactly. The Biblical people, places, and things features all require resources. In a sense you get the feature for free - it's written into the code already - but the feature is useless if you do not have the resource for it.
This is why both PC and Mac users have to pay a small fee if they want access to all the features. Mac users are not being singled out - everyone has to pay for these resources. The fee is for the resources, just like you have to buy any other resource in the Logos library. I imagine that like any other resource, Logos itself has to pay licensing fees for these resources so they would lose money if they gave them away free. Not a good practice for a business.
Again, it makes sense when you think of these resources as what they are - extra resources being added to your library which must be purchased just like any other resource in your collection.
I don't like to pay money any more than anyone else but I understand why Logos charges for these resources.
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Many thanks... especially for the download link.
Getting back to the "add-ons"... I completely understand what you're saying. However, and this is a big however, as I said, I made the purchase fully knowing that I would be able to eventually have these "add--ons". I understand you can't give an answer. And, I wish I had proof of the promise. I'm really not trying to complain. In fact, most of the mac complaints I cannot associate myself with because I knowingly purchased a product that I knew was still under development. So, even though the engine is capable of handling this functionality, it really doesn't do any good unless the resources are there. Right? Or am I missing something?
I understand what you're saying about good business practices, and agree... but those who were already Mac customers, at least I imagine, were expecting to eventually have this capability. No?
Does anyone from Logos have a comment?
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Logos 4 for Mac will be able to do everything Logos 4 for Windows can do. The things we are waiting to see are not add-ons, per se, but features in the program itself that are still being developed for the Mac. Bob has said development continues and new builds will be posted every two weeks, the first new build hopefully coming this Friday. A lot of work remains, but a lot has already been done and within a few months we should really start to be pleased.
We will eventually have all the capability the Windows version has and with this we will also have to pay the same thing the Windows users are paying.
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Chris Roberts said:
We will eventually have all the capability the Windows version has and with this we will also have to pay the same thing the Windows users are paying.
Agreed. However, the current Mac users already paid the 69 dollar cross grade price. Do they have to pay it again?
“... every day in which I do not
penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture
is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the
firm ground of the Word of God.”0 -
Dewayne,
My guess is yes, depending on what you mean. The previous crossgrade fee was to obtain the Mac engine. From now on, if I understand correctly, the Mac engine will be free. There will be no crossgrade fee.
But the crossgrade fee currently offered by Logos is to go from a version 3 library to a version 4 library so Mac users with a version 3 library (version 1 engine) will have to pay the crossgrade fee to get the resources of the version 4 library. If you are satisfied with your library and do not want the features that require new resources, you will not have to pay anything to use Logos 4 for Mac.
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Okay. So the previous post seems to give me some more info. Thanks... but let me try and re-state what I meant.
Upon purchasing the mac version, not having been a previous Logos user, I was fully aware that there was limited functionality when compared to the Windows product. No problem. However, at that time, what were considered add-ons for Windows (Bible people, places, text pronunciation, hymns, etc.) were clearly indicated that they did not work on the mac version, but would be made available. Does this ring a bell with anyone else? These are the things that I'm looking for. At the moment, I'm not looking to upgrade my library with the nifty and wonderful additions (I mean new books included in the library package) that Logos has graciously added. All I'm looking for is the functionality that was promised. Does this make more sense?
So, now if I understand correctly, to get the functionality that was promised, we have to pay for it. Somehow, that doesn't seem right. Either that, or I've misunderstood something... again. That, unfortunately, would not be something new.
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Br. Raymond Minot said:
(Bible people, places, text pronunciation, hymns, etc.)
Several questions come to mind:
- Was "Biblical People" even offered in V3?
- Was "Biblical Places" even offered in V3?
- Is Text prounounciation something that you are not going to have if you just upgrade the engine?
- Are hymns something you're not going to have if you just upgrade the engine?
I'm thinking possibly you are misunderstanding something.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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I, of course, am no authority. But, I am hoping that once Logos 4 for Mac catches up to Logos 4 for Windows (which will be a good bit and understandably so), they will work on updating Logos 1.2.2 for Mac until it is comparable to Logos 3 for Windows in terms of functionality, because when we cross-graded we were under the impression that we would eventually have a Mac program that functions just like the Windows (Logos 3) program.
The logos website still says: "Note: Logos Bible Software for Mac lacks some of the features of the Windows version. We plan to add many of these features in upcoming versions." Concerning Logos for Mac 1.2.1 (http://www.logos.com/mac/engine)
I went ahead and paid for the jump in packaging and have the Scholar's Library Logos 4 Alpha on my Mac. I look forward to seeing the progression of both Mac versions.
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JordanMontgomeryTatom said:
I look forward to seeing the progression of both Mac versions.
Don't hold your breath. I think we'll find it is a case of "Logos 1 is dead, Long Live Logos 4". But your points are essentially those I made earlier and to which I received no real response except "you have an Alpha."
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Yea, that makes sense especially once Logos 4 for Mac has all the bells and whistles. Thank you.
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Jordan,
Throughout beta-testing the Mac 1 engine and once the engine was released, as we asked Logos for new features the Logos response was frequently that they are working hard on a completely new version of Logos. The Libronix 1 engine was the culmination of years of work which never resulted in a great product. Releasing it was Logos' way of giving *something* to Mac users to use while they worked on the new version.
I do not expect to see any more updates period for the Libronix 1 engine. All new work will be on Logos 4. This does not violate any promise made, Logos will have in the Mac version all the features found in the PC version, including the features still being added to the PC version. That was the promise, that's what they will do. It won't happen overnight, but this time it will be a matter of months and not years.
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Colin,
Send an email or give a call to Logos. If you send an email, there will be a delay as they are swamped, but I am sure they will get back to you. While Logos folks do participate in these forums, the forums are not an official support method. It is a place for users to share experience and advice with other users. That said, the Logos folks do participate quite a bit but there should be no expectation of an official answer through the forums.
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Chris Roberts said:
Colin,
Send an email or give a call to Logos. If you send an email, there will be a delay as they are swamped, but I am sure they will get back to you. While Logos folks do participate in these forums, the forums are not an official support method. It is a place for users to share experience and advice with other users. That said, the Logos folks do participate quite a bit but there should be no expectation of an official answer through the forums.
I broke my promise not to contribute further to this particular thread, so while I appreciate your reply I won't enter further into it.
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Sorry I missed this before, but the answer is yes. If you buy L4, all the features will be included in all updates/upgrades.Br. Raymond Minot said:Thanks so much for your reply Joe. So, just to make sure I understand... those features are all eventually going to be incorporated for free. There's nothing additional that needs to be purchased. Right?
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Joe Miller said:
Good question. I think it would be good for a Logos rep to answer and make sure the correct info is given. I am also a bit confused on how the Mac upgrade/crossgrade will work for 1.2.2 vs. L4.
That is funny. I thought it was all clear as mud.
and Joe all your links are broken to your blog by the way.
http://www.theobjectivetruth.com
Wes
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I was told that the only support was via the forum, must have misunderstood something. They told me no phone help only on the forum.
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Joe,
But I imagine that would not be the case for questions involving resource licenses and such.
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I'm not the type to argue. But, I don't believe the question is "did we have in version 3". There is no version 3 for the Mac.
Now if I've understood correctly, when version 4 is up and fully running, it will have all the functionality (Biblical people, places, sound, music, etc) without purchasing anything. Is that a safe assumption?
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Raymond,
I believe that the levels are as follows:
1) Engine only. no bibical people, places etc.
Cost: $02.) Crossgrade: You get the things already mentioned.
Cost: $703.) Upgrade: You get what's in the package you select.
Cost: varies.I'm a PC user so someone can verify...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
Raymond,
I believe that the levels are as follows:
1) Engine only. no bibical people, places etc.
Cost: $02.) Crossgrade: You get the things already mentioned.
Cost: $703.) Upgrade: You get what's in the package you select.
Cost: varies.I'm a PC user so someone can verify...
There's a minimal crossgrade $70 which provides some of the new resources (biblical people places things) and a package crossgrade - the cost of the latter depends on prior purchases
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Thanks for the previous information.
Assuming that this information is correct, it means then, those who already purchased the original mac version have to pay more for what was promised. Personally, I don't think is right. As I said, I knowingly purchased a product that was not up to par BECAUSE there was the guarantee of the full functionality. For students and religious (I'm a Catholic monk), $70 is not a drop in a bucket.
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Raymond,
What were you promised that you are now not getting exactly (specifically)?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Aside that I can't get Logos 4 to work (indexing is done), according to the information provided, there will be no Biblical people, places, hymns, pronunciation examples, etc. UNLESS there is a purchase. Last year (around November 2008) I bought the Scholar's Library. I don't need to upgrade to the new Scholar's Library. I would just like to be able to have the promised Biblical people, places, hymns, pronunciation, etc. that is available in the former Window's (shudder) version.
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Raymond,
I guess my next question would be....when were you promised "biblical people" and "biblical places"?
These are new features specific to V4.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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The promise was when the software was purchased. Well, the discussions leading up to it. And, perhaps also what was available on the web. These features are available in the Windows version. From what I can tell by the Windows installation I did, it's version 3.0e and you can find Biblical People under Tools->Bible Data-> Biblical People.
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Raymond,
I got it...
so your beef is that you purchased v3 for mac and there is no bibical people etc in it?
Now you've purchased a DIFFERENT PRODUCT....v4...(it's not the upgrade..it's a different product...they can live side by side..) and you don't want to spend the 70 to get that functionality in v4...correct?
I guess then I'm lost...
There is no promise that what is in V3 will be there in V4...they are two separate products....you bought two different products...
Am i right in thinking that development continues on the Mac v1 to gain parity with the Windows v3 version?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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first, there is no such thing as v3 for Mac. the latest version prior to v4 was v. 1.2.2 and frankly - it wasn't that great.
i believe his "beef" is that he, like a lot of us, has spent a lot of money and would like a decent product. it seems that v4 is promising that, but thus far we still don't have access to it.
River of Life Church: http://LifeOverflowing.org
Visit my blog: http://LifeOverflowing.org/pastor0 -
Here is what was said in the past.
Jan 16th...
The next step is an incremental release to address small bugs and the
highest priority (small) missing features. This is coming very soon, though
I can't give a date.
The following step is a more significant release
which will add "major"
features and get closer to the Windows version in
terms of feature set --
but closer to the upcoming 4.x Windows version, not
the existing release. I
don't have a date for this yet.
(We are
already mining customer service feedback and this newsgroup for your
input
on what's most important. Posts here do get read, even if we can't
reply
with a yes/no immediately.)
As you can imagine, we weren't happy with how
long it took to get the first
version out, so one of the things we're right
in the middle of is making
changes to the team and project structure to help
us get future releases out
more quickly. But this reorganization itself will
take some time and energy.
Want to help?
Our number one need is
MORE PROGRAMMERS. The Mac release _has_ been a
success, and we want to bring
the Mac version to feature parity (and
beyond!) as fast as possible. So if
the smartest person you know happens to
be a software developer (or better
yet, a Mac software developer), please
encourage them to stop wasting their
time on corporate web sites /
enterprise software / coding for rocket ships,
and to give us a call. Bible
software is more rewarding to code.
:-)
-- BobMay 26th...
We're working on two updates: A minor update with bug fixes and a few new
features ("sooner"), and a major release that is more inline with the next
Windows release ("later").
I wish I could give you dates, but I can't
predict this release any better
than the last... though at least it's all
in-house now.
-- BobI think the problem is that some of the Mac users FEEL LIKE they paid 69 dollars for an unfinished product that looks as if it is being abandoned or replaced with version 4. It is unclear from recent statements whether the Mac users need to pay another 69 dollars, or if what was paid already is the same 69 dollars. If so, maybe they will let us use that as credit toward one of the upgrades? Probably not though... It does not matter to me either way. But I don't want to pay twice if I don't have to. I think they have made the right decision to move to parity with L4. There is no sense in putting more into 1.2. If I have to pay the 69 again, then I consider it well worth it. I have L4 running on Fusion and aside from being a little sluggish, I am pleased. I don't use Libronix that much, but the new interface will make my Library much more usable when I do.
“... every day in which I do not
penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture
is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the
firm ground of the Word of God.”0 -
Yes Dewayne... and no. I didn't pay $70. I am (we are.... we're a monastery) a brand new MAC Logos customer. I never knew the Windows software, I never knew Logos before November or December 2008. So the gripes about missing functionality... well, I don't have them because I don't know everything that the Windows software does. What I do know is that the former "add-ons" (Biblical people for example) for Windows does/did exist. I managed to get my Mac Logos installed on a Windows machine because I needed to use that function. I learned about it because I read it on the website BEFORE I made the purchase and knew that it wasn't there on the Mac. I eventually needed to use it and figured out how to install it on Windows. So that's how I know it's there.
That is also how I know that these features were supposed to be coming into the Mac version and I was told (or even read) that they would be coming. So I spent hundreds of dollars, like everyone else who has a Scholar's Library, to buy Logos for the Mac. But I did so knowing that these features would appear in the Mac version.
The day for those features is here with version 4 (well, on the way soon at least). The problem is about paying for something that was promised. Nothing more. It's not a problem that it's taken long to get. That was known from the get go. (Which by the way, is why I don't understand all the griping for features and functionality... it was said that it wasn't like the Windows version. Patience is a virtue.) The problem is having to pay more.
If $70 wasn't a big deal, then I would be okay. Unfortunately for us... it is.
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So i guess I still don't understand..
On the win side...V3 and V4 are two different releases...v4 is not the "upgrade to v3"
they are compatible and you can have one, both or neither.
is this the way it is on the mac side?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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nope, that is not the way it is on the mac side.
on the mac side you have 2 choices:
1 - u can have a basic product that is extremely limited and worlds behind the windows version (mac v.1.2.2)
2 - u can have a completely pointless product that does little to nothing so far (mac alpha release of v.4)
River of Life Church: http://LifeOverflowing.org
Visit my blog: http://LifeOverflowing.org/pastor0 -
but i'm hoping the release of v.4 for the mac (finished product) will be as useful as the windows version seems to be. excited at the idea... hoping...
River of Life Church: http://LifeOverflowing.org
Visit my blog: http://LifeOverflowing.org/pastor0 -
Part of the confusion may be the use of the term "crossgrade". When Mac users paid a crossgrade fee, it was to move from the PC version to the Mac version. The current crossgrade has nothing to do with that. The current crossgrade fee will update the resources of v3 (or Mac v1) users to the resources needed for a fully functioning v4.
Mac users paid for the v1 engine. You paid for no resources. You paid for the program itself. With v4 you get the program - including all its features, sort of - for free. But you do have to pay for resources if you want to get all the features working.
I am having an increasingly hard time understanding why this is so hard for people to grasp. You are not going to get free resources. You will have to pay for new resources just like everyone else. Mac users are not going to suddenly get favored treatment and receive lots of free stuff everyone else has to pay for. We will get what was promised: a program that mirrors the PC version. That means we will also have to pay what PC users pay.
I know many people thought v1 would be brought up to speed with v3 but Logos never, ever promised this. The whole time they said over and over that v1 was to provide *something* for Mac users until the next big release came out. When the next big release came out, we were told it would match the Windows version and lo and behold, that's what we see being developed. It's not ready yet, but progress will be rapid. And to use this program with all of its features we will have to do what Windows users have to do, we will have to pay for the resources behind the engine.
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It's been three days waiting for indexing to finish. Last night the time read 0:01 before complete. It's been reading that since 8:00 p.m. It's now almost noon on another day. Can anyone help me to know when this indexing will be completed. Also, when I look at the V4 page, I don't see a home page, and many of the features are missing. I am at a loss, $400 dollars seems like it's going down the drain, and I don't have full access to the program three days after starting the download.
Allen
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Allen,
If it is stuck at 0:01 for that long you might want to cancel and restart indexing. It may or may not start the whole thing over again.
Keep in mind the program is still in development. Lots of work remains to be done and a number of features are still missing, but they are coming.
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Some of the things that were promised in v3 were pronunciation, notes, and highlighting and others. Those things were promised in v3 for Mac and we never received them AT ALL!!!! Now are these features going to be or in v4 for Mac?
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