How do I search for a concept?

How do I search for a concept? For example, I would like to find examples in the Bible where people "esteemed others." and would also like to search for examples where someone did the opposite, i.e. did not esteem others.

Is this possible in LOGOS?

Thanks,

Pastor James

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George Somsel

How do I search for a concept? For example, I would like to find examples in the Bible where people "esteemed others." and would also like to search for examples where someone did the opposite, i.e. did not esteem others.

Is this possible in LOGOS?

Thanks,

Pastor James

I haven't yet worked out how to find this in the Hebrew OT, but I searched Louw & Nida for "esteem" and found LN 87.33 εὐσχημων. I would also check instances of ἐπάνω, ὑπεράνω and πηλίκος which are nearly related in semantic domain. I find five instances of this in the NT. A search of the DBL Hebrew lexicon found no instance of LN 87.33. I'm sure there is another way this would be expressed -- possibly with the use of כָּבֵד. I'll give it some thought.

Rosie Perera

I would think searching for esteem used as a verb (as opposed to a noun) might be a starting point. You can do this using a Morph search. You'll need to do OT and NT separately, since the morphology is based Greek or Hebrew. I'm showing the NT/Greek example here. I've chosen to show the results in Analysis view as it will be helpful for later:

Notice that this view shows all verbs in each of the verses that contains esteem as a verb. Ignore the other lines that are for other verbs, and just focus in on the lines that have esteem in the "Result" column. To make that task easier (especially if you were using a more common word that had lots more results), you can drag the "Result" column header up into the grouping area above, and then just look at the grouped results for forms of the word esteem:

Next I would click on the Louw-Nida numbers for the esteem instances; LN numbers refer to semantic domains, so by following that trail you'll find other words that mean similar things to "esteem" and then can iterate this process using those words.

In order to follow up the LN numbers you will need to have the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains (by Louw & Nida). Very worth owning. Here's what you get for those LN numbers:

Now for any of those semantic domains that appear to be what you're trying to get at, you can do a Basic Search in your preferred Bible for those LN numbers, using the following syntax: <LN 87.15>. Here's an example of the results you could get:

Not everything is relevant to your quest, but you'll find a lot more relevant verses than just by searching for "esteem."

Now go and do likewise with the Old Testament and Hebrew morphology. In this case it's a bit trickier. You'll be looking not for Louw-Nida numbers but Hebrew Strong's numbers. And you'll need to have the Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Hebrew, and have it prioritized above other Hebrew lexicons in your Library. Ask if you need help with that.

Use a Hebrew Morphology instead of Greek in the Morph Search (you'll need to be using a Bible version that supports it; in other words one with reverse interlinear capabilities in the OT). To open the DBL Hebrew from the Morph search results, right-click on the Strong's number, make sure the "Hebrew Strong's" tab is selected on the right side of the popup menu, and then click Dictionary of Biblical Languages... on the left side:

Here's an example of what you'll see:

You can click on any of those Bible references to jump in your preferred Bible to that reference. And you can search for Hebrew Strong's #s using this syntax:

Note: If you can't remember this search syntax you can always right-click on the number and choose "Search all open resources" and Logos will supply the search syntax (in its fuller form), and then you can manually change "All Open Resources" to your preferred Bible and run the search again:

Note that DBL Hebrew also gives you LN numbers for the Greek equivalents to these Hebrew words, which will give you yet more possible words to search for. See, for example, "disdain" in the screenshot above which is the opposite of to "esteem" others. If you hover your mouse over the LN number to the left of "disdain" you'll see a popup with an excerpt from that section of the Louw-Nida dictionary discussing that semantic domain of words:

You can click on the link to go directly to Louw-Nida at that address, and you'll see other related words:

Sorry. I know that's a lot more information than you wanted to be flooded with. But if you work through these examples and ask more questions for clarification if you need them, you'll have a ton of power at your fingertips to find all the examples in the Bible where people esteemed or disdained others (or a number of synonyms thereof).

Hope that helps!

EDIT: I see that George has responded while I was constructing my reply. I really have no idea how someone (like George) who objects to Strong's numbers out of principle and would want to avoid any method that uses them would do this. I was trying as well to think of a way to do it without them but came up with nothing. I'll be eager to see another method.

A further note: the numbers used to number the headwords in DBL Hebrew are actually not Strong's numbers but Hebrew GK #s or DBL Hebrew #s (I think, but am not sure, that these are equivalent; at least they are in this example):

But notice that the DBL Hebrew dictionary shows the Strong's # equivalent after a triple equals sign in the text. And when you right click on the main headword number (7837 in the screenshot above), the right-click menu will give you all these options on the right. Be sure to choose a numbering scheme that is supported in the Bible you want to search in. In most cases this will need to be Strong's. So choose the Strong's Hebrew #7043 tab on the right, in this example, and then "Search all open resources" on the left, then change the "All Open Resources" to your preferred Bible and run the search again, and that will give you the goods, the search results for this particular word. And then you'll need to repeat the process for all possibly useful synonyms. I wish there were a simpler way to do this. Hopefully someone else knows of one or will come up with one.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/255761#Comment_255761

I wish there were a simpler way to do this. Hopefully someone else knows of one or will come up with one.

Thank you - Your posts are an education. As for the simpler way - Mr. Alexander is going to write a book on the subject [after using your method] that will be published in Logos and then we just have to read his upcoming book. [Nice topic - looking forward to your PBB]

Giovanni Baggio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/255776#Comment_255776

I wish there were a simpler way to do this. Hopefully someone else knows of one or will come up with one.

Thank you - Your posts are an education. As for the simpler way - Mr. Alexander is going to write a book on the subject [after using your method] that will be published in Logos and then we just have to read his upcoming book. [Nice topic - looking forward to your PBB]

Thank you Rosie, your posts are..................................................LONG! LOL i must say i was impressed at how much time you must have in your hands to post somethin like this.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/255761#Comment_255761

I would think searching for esteem used as a verb (as opposed to a noun) might be a starting point. You can do this using a Morph search. You'll need to do OT and NT separately, since the morphology is based Greek or Hebrew.

Thanks Rosie (started with esteem verb search); another lexicon to consider is "The Lexham Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament" that was updated earlier this year to include Louw-Nida numbers plus cognate words:

Appears can use similar strategy for Old Testament: started with verbal esteem search, followed 1 Sam 2:30 link to ESV, right click on "esteemed", then lemma, then "Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Hebrew (Old Testament)":

Another right click option for 1 Sam 2:30 lemma is Bible Word Study (BWS):

Keep Smiling [:)]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/255966#Comment_255966

Thank you Rosie, your posts are..................................................LONG! LOL i must say i was impressed at how much time you must have in your hands to post somethin like this.

LOL. I can do short posts, too. [:)]

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/256099#Comment_256099

LOL. I can do short posts, too.

Oh yeah? Prove it ! [:D] Seriously, I appreciate your posts -- long or short.

Pastor James

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/256114#Comment_256114

Thanks for the suggestions, competing priorities have kept me from trying your suggestions, but I will. Just didn't want to leave a dangling thread or for any of you to think that your replies weren't appreciated.