Is the 'free update' officially sanctioned??

I have downloaded and installed the free update:

http://downloads.logos.com/LBS4/LDLS4Installer/Logos4Setup.exe

on my work and home PC. My work PC (Windowx XP) seems fine (once I got around firewall problems) but things are weird on my home PC (Vista Basic SP1).

The Setup program happily downloaded and installed Logos 4 and when I ran it it prompted for my user name and password. So far so good.

I entered the details and tried to procedd - Logos 4 reported it could not connect to logos.com. I have tried disabling: the firewall, the anti virus, the anti-spyware. I have tried using a wireless connection and a mobile-phone-dongle. But Logos 4 will not connect to Logos.com...

I'm an IT professional, so am not used to running into brick walls - a network packet sniffer shows that, when I click Sign In, Logos 4 does NOTHING - it makes no attempt to contact Logos.com...

I tried an uninstall and re-install - no joy.

So i phoned Logos and the support rep was *horrified* that I had access to Logos 4 without having purchased an upgrade. Apparently, this 'free' upgrade is unofficial, unsanctioned and unsupported. There are plans to make the engine freely available in the future, but not yet...

What do you think about this? Has anyone else had this problem? Is it Vista related??

Help would be appreciated.

Andy

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Comments

DominicM

While the engine will work with your existing books, we strongly encourage you to consider a base package, which will include lots of content especially designed to work well with Logos 4. The people, places, and things databases, the controlled vocabulary, infographics, maps, etc. are all content resources sold as part of the base package.

You can also consider the "Minimal Crossgrade", which includes just the content resources that make Logos 4 shine.

http://www.logos.com/minimalcrossgrade

is the official position AFAIK

I take it you used the same username and password you used to log in here? I used it myself to re-install my laptop, and it works for me

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26276#Comment_26276

As I don't have a 'qualifying package' I cannot do a minimal cross grade. I don't really want or need any of the base packages - I cherry picked the things I needed when I first got Logos and most of the new things I would get with any of the packs would not be a great use to me.

Also, what guarantee would there be that the pack-version would work on this PC - after all the engine would be the same.

So, i'm in a bit of a tight spot - support wont support me unless I upgrade and I'm not willing to upgrade without being 100% certain it will work for me...

Yes - used the correct username and password - but the data never left my PC....

Andy

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26298#Comment_26298

Andy not sure what is going on there, from an IT perspective I see where you are coming from. Hopefully Bradley, George or one of the technical experts from Team Logos can shed some light for you.

I'm not aware of the need for owning a base package for V4 to work, though I think all of us from the Beta Test team owned at least the lowest base package. I have the Leader's Library and it works perfectly.

Bob Pritchett

I'm sorry to hear about the problem you had with customer service. We support everyone who has bought from us, whether it's a base package or not. Please try support again, and let me know if you have any problems. I'll also talk with the department supervisor....

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26321#Comment_26321

Just a thought Vista is at SP2 now, perhaps something microsoft fixed is stopping you and allowing us..

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26298#Comment_26298

As I don't have a 'qualifying package' I cannot do a minimal cross grade. I don't really want or need any of the base packages - I cherry picked the things I needed when I first got Logos and most of the new things I would get with any of the packs would not be a great use to me.

Andy,

I was right where you were a few years ago. Lots of Logos stuff but no base package. I missed out on what were then called add-ins and some of the functionality of Logos. I finally decided that I'd be happier in the long-term upgrading to a package. I talked with the folks at Sales and they looked at what I had and made a very reasonable offer. I have not regretted that and have upgraded packages at least one time since.

I'm not trying to sell you anything. Just been down that path and decided to experience pain once rather than over and again. You might give sales a call and see what they can come up with (though you might want to wait a few days until call volume is down a bit). You might decide it is worth it.

Mark

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26328#Comment_26328

It's also crossed my mind that I may need to upgarde to SP2 - too much to do tonight (already almost 23:30) and I'd have to do a full backup etc 'just in case'...

Andy

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

I'm an IT professional, so am not used to running into brick walls - a network packet sniffer shows that, when I click Sign In, Logos 4 does NOTHING - it makes no attempt to contact Logos.com...

This seems really unusual, and I can't think of anything that would be causing it. It should open an HTTPS connection to logos.com and get an authentication cookie for your username and password. If you flush your DNS cache, does it even try to resolve "services.logos.com"?

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26563#Comment_26563

Thanks Bradley - I'll try to have a look tonight. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the firewall yesterday and the firewall never received a request from Logos4 to access the Internet, so there does seem to be something very odd here.

I've noticed that, when I do the Windows update, it will update Internet explorer and also the .NET frameworks - I wonder if these may resolve the problems? But we wont know until I give it a try :-)

Thanks to all for your assistance with this...

Andy

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26799#Comment_26799

I've noticed that, when I do the Windows update, it will update Internet explorer and also the .NET frameworks - I wonder if these may resolve the problems?

Logos 4 requires .NET 3.5 SP 1; the installer should have automatically downloaded and installed this if it was missing. If Windows Update is still offering it, this may indicate a problem with the installer; it will probably help to install it via Windows Update. (The version of IE that's installed shouldn't matter; we've run Logos 4 with IE 6, 7, and 8 without issues.)

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26815#Comment_26815

I can't remember which .NET version it was at or what it suggested going to (I'm away from that PC at the moment). The installer downloaded 24MB prior to installing Logos, so it sounds like it didn't do any .NEt updates...

James Brown

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26815#Comment_26815

Logos 4 requires .NET 3.5 SP 1; the installer should have automatically downloaded and installed this if it was missing. If Windows Update is still offering it, this may indicate a problem with the installer; it will probably help to install it via Windows Update.

Bradley... FYI... I was installing LBS4 on my pastor's Vista machine. It went to install .NET 3.5 SP 1 and it ran into an error. We tried several times to update .NET 3.5 SP 1 getting the same error. Apparently it was a common enough error that they have posted a fix on the Microsoft support website. The fix for Vista is a reinstall of the OS... might want to be ready for this one in support. I tried to find the Support Forum entry that addressed this issue, but couldn't. I might try to get back to my pastor's puter and see if I can locate it for ya.

Jim

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26913#Comment_26913

Apparently it was a common enough error that they have posted a fix on the Microsoft support website. The fix for Vista is a reinstall of the OS... might want to be ready for this one in support.

Ouch... that's not fun. Thanks for the heads-up.

Dr. Nathan Parker

The free update worked for me, so I'm installing it as of now. I do plan to upgrade to another base package (probably Platinum) down the road before too long. I might be able to get a little better of a discount since I'm a student at Luther Rice and LRU has some type of student pricing in place. Right now, that'd help a bunch.

I'm hoping the free update is sanctioned, as I feel that the engine should be free, but the base packages should come at an upgrade. Once I get everything set back up in Logos 4, I'll be more than happy to spring for an upgrade to the new collections, especially if I can get an educational discount.

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26851#Comment_26851

OK - I've now updated to the latest Vista and have (actually, I already had) the correct, latest .NET.

Logos 4 still did nothing. So I unstalled and reinstalled to a different folder - same behaviour. My firewall (Comodo) reported that Logos 4 was trying to run and create registry keys etc, but when I tried to log on - nothing. The firewall reported nothing and I can only conclude that's because Logos 4 did not attempt to connect to the internet.

Now, this is weirdly mirrored by my experience at my heavily protected work PC - XP professional SP3. The Logos 4 installer would not download the needed files because it did not detect our companies proxy server. It had no option to do so, either. C'mon guys - if your software is going to be so reliant on the internet it must either detect the proxy server or allow the user to enter its details manually. All my software development tools (Delphi, C++ Builder etc) also have to download gigs of stuff and they NEVER have a problem with this.

Anyhow, I managed to install Logos 4 at work using my mobile phone as a modem (bypassing all my company's security, which is probably not allowed :-( but I did it out of frustration). And then the same problem - Logos 4 could not detect my Internet proxy server, so it's bakc to the mobile phone moden to get the cookie that Bradley mentioned earlier. After that, i can tell logos to work offline and, after a LOT of persuasion (going to program settings and randomly turning off and on the internet and automatic updates) it finally decided to do the indexing, picked up my Logos 3 resources and now, at least, I can use Logos 4 at work. Although, as mass redundancies were announced today, thbis may be for a short period of time, but I digress :-)

Again - for software that is so Internet dependant it must either detect the proxy settings or allow you to enter them. Logos 4 does neither, as far as i can make out. I say this is related to my home PC problem, because my theory (and this is all it is) is that Logos 4 is failing to detect my internet connection and so doesn't bother to try to connect. If it did, my firewall would ask me if I wanted to let it connect to the net, The firewall is silent, which I am interpreting as meaning Logos 4 isn't making a request. (This is like exegesis for software!)

Logos 3 has the same proxy server issues at work (which i overcame with the mobile modem approach) but, on my home PC, was able to access the internet. So, I can only assume the Internet routines in Logos 4 are not the same as V3 and are not working properly.

Can you confirm that Logos 4 was tested on Vista Home Basic - I am running as an administrator and have UAC switched off, so that's not the problem. is there a diagnostic version of V4 that I can try?

At this rate, there is no way I would risk an upgrade to any V4 package... At least V3 is working...

Andy

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27455#Comment_27455

I've also just tried using my mobile phone as a modem on my home PC - same result.

So, either something is blocking Logos 4 from accessing the internet or Logos 4 isn't detecting the connection and/or isn't trying to connect. I have run all this will my firewall and anti-virus disabled and still no joy...

Does logos 4 use a separate process for internet connections? If so, what's its name? I can then add that process to my firewall's 'always allowed' list

Alex Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27455#Comment_27455

Hi Andy

I beta tested LBS4 on Vista Home Basic and experienced no problems with it.

Alex.

Linden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27503#Comment_27503

Andy,

I use the same firewall as you (Comodo) and I also didn't own a package (I've purchased stuff piecemeal of the years plus books from other vendors that sell Logos compatible books). V4 installed and ran cleanly on my system, detected and moved over all my content once I logged into logos. No issues and I didn't modify the firewall or provide special rules. Only difference is I'm running XP SP3 and not Vista. So at least if you can log in, I think your main concern will be addressed.

As an aside, I broke down and bought the Bible Study package. The web site didn't give me an option to get a discount on the Bible Study package, but I was able to call in and get a reduction on this package.

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27536#Comment_27536

Hmmm... then this is 'well weird' :-(

My home PC has virtually no customisations on it - just firewall and av and parental controls, but even with them all switched off it will not connect to the internet.

One odd thing - after the first 'Sign In' request fails (which takes a few seconds), subsequent 'Sign in' requests fail immediately. That means it's either not trying or it is reading a local (cached) file rather than bother to go to the Net...

I will try deleting every temporary file and see if that helps. I doubt it will because I noticed that, on my Work PC, the 'cookie' is stored in one of the SQL Lite database tables (I'm a software developer and couldn't help poking about under the hood!), so I doubt there is also a cached file anywhere, but it's worth a shot...

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27539#Comment_27539

Cleaning the cache had no effect - I wasn't really expecting it to, to be honest.

All that I can now think of is to run an application profiler over Logos 4 and see what it is or isn't doing when i try to Sign in... I don't like doing this, as it feels like hacking, but the Logos people can see I've already invested quite a few $$$ (£££ actually) in the software, so I am doing this in good faith etc...

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27546#Comment_27546

Well, it does quite a lot when it tries to connect but there's a huge amount of info. What worries me is that it suffers from several 'Buffer overflows' during the process. I will send the log file to support as this forum doesn't seem to support file uploads...

Andy

Linden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27568#Comment_27568

What antivirus are you using?

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27568#Comment_27568

Well, it does quite a lot when it tries to connect but there's a huge amount of info. What worries me is that it suffers from several 'Buffer overflows' during the process. I will send the log file to support as this forum doesn't seem to support file uploads...

Are you able to access https://services.logos.com/v1/AuthenticationService.svc in Internet Explorer? (It should display some basic info about the service, WSDL, etc.)

I think you should be able to attach a log by clicking the green "Options" button above the editor then the Add/Update attachment button.

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27701#Comment_27701

Sunbelt's Vipre, which is AV and Anti Spyware. However, I have eliminated it from possible causes of this problem because:

1) It never complains about Logos 4 and it normally complains about any software it doesn't recognise

2) Its logs make no mention of Logos 4

3) I have run Logos 4 with Vipre shut down and I get the same problem.

I agree this has all the symptoms of a 'something' blocking Logos 4's attempts to contact the Internet. However, the only 'somethings' (AFAIK) that could be causes of this have been eliminated and no other software that I use has this problem...

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27943#Comment_27943

I sent the log to Support last night. I will try the URL you mention tonight, when I get home. Support are yet to respond to any of my emails concerning this...

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27975#Comment_27975

I sent the log to Support last night. I will try the URL you mention tonight, when I get home. Support are yet to respond to any of my emails concerning this...

As I understand, they're a little backed up with email at the moment. And for a problem like this, they'd probably call me over to take a look at it anyway, so you may find this forum to be the most direct way to get your answer...

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27984#Comment_27984

Bradley

When I click the Options button I get no option to upload the file. If you email me at andy.photos.bell AT googlemail.com I will email the process trace to you...

Andy

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27985#Comment_27985

Bradley

When I click the Options button I get no option to upload the file. If you email me at andy.photos.bell AT googlemail.com I will email the process trace to you...

Andy

You can use the Insert Media icon on the tool bar to upload a file, as well. (I do not know why they removed the upload function from the options. It used to be there)

AndyTheGreek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/27943#Comment_27943

Well, it does quite a lot when it tries to connect but there's a huge amount of info. What worries me is that it suffers from several 'Buffer overflows' during the process. I will send the log file to support as this forum doesn't seem to support file uploads...

Are you able to access https://services.logos.com/v1/AuthenticationService.svc in Internet Explorer? (It should display some basic info about the service, WSDL, etc.)

I think you should be able to attach a log by clicking the green "Options" button above the editor then the Add/Update attachment button.

Yes, I can access that URL in IE and Firefox...