A note about American Baptists
First let me state that I know nothing about American Baptists and how they fit into the scheme of things. But I'd like Baptists and individuals of a similar bent (whoever that is) to look at two websites in light of the two recent blogs on lectionaries.
http://www.abcmc.org/contents/ePublications/lectionaryStudies.html
http://ashes2fire.bravehost.com/rcl/
Thanks for indulging me.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Peace, MJ! and ............ God give you always Great Joy in the Lord....
.... was just reading a few of the older postings that I missed and was very pleased to find this information you shared with us...
....... quite enlightening!
Thank You!
*smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Thank you [:)]
Regards, SteveF
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MJ. Smith said:
But I'd like Baptists and individuals of a similar bent (whoever that is) to look at two websites in light of the two recent blogs on lectionaries.
Thank you for these links. I will study them further for a better understanding.
It raises a question from my ignorance: Are lectionaries predominately used in Reformed Protestant churches? Until you recently made me aware of the American Baptist's use of them, I thought no Baptist churches did. I am aware there are many Baptist churches on both sides of the pre-destination issue and wondered if lectionaries were used on both sides of the divide? I can not imagine why that would have anything to do with it. It appears to be an unrelated coincidence.
Without getting into rock-throwing, can anyone offer an explanation for why some do & some don't?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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My understanding is that Baptist traditionally don't use Lectionaries.
However some Baptist like other Non Conformist are starting to rediscover the lectionaries for use in their worship.
There are pros and cons to use the lectionary
Pro Lectionaries are very Christ centred and they follow the Christian calender.
Con. Lectionaries are very selective in scripture they use. They do not contain the whole Bible.
Most British Baptist do not use them however an increasing number are starting to experiment with them in their worship.
DARE Try preaching sermon series from a lectionary!
Paul
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Paul Spicer said:
However some Baptist like other Non Conformist are starting to rediscover the lectionaries for use in their worship.
There are pros and cons to use the lectionary
I can see benefits to following the lectionary. I can also imagine resistance to it. Most independent congregations might ask "Who chooses the scriptures to be preached?" I would ask if the party responsible for the choices would exclude some passages and promote others in an effort to mold doctrinal belief's of the worshipers.
Paul Spicer said:DARE Try preaching sermon series from a lectionary!
Do some churches follow the lectionary for morning worship and then preach sermon series in the evening? Around here many churches have traditional service, contemporary service, and small groups, all on the same day, with no problems.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I understand the use of lectionaries goes back hundreds years.
The content was also revised and yes the content is also doctrinal.The main emphasis being Christ centredness and following the church calender:Christmas, Easter and Pentecost etc.
Some protestant demoninations have revised their own lectionaries based on traditional lectionaries. There are number available in logos.
Paul
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Freedom to use or not in use the lectionariy in your worship entirely depends on the rules of your church.
Paul
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Paul Spicer said:
I understand the use of lectionaries goes back hundreds years.
At least to the time of Ezra's return to Jerusalem [:D]
Paul Spicer said:The content was also revised and yes the content is also doctrinal.
The doctrinal bias of the lectionary is very firmly set in the person of Jesus Christ hence, the Gospels are the driving force of the lectionaries. This is in keeping with a liturgical year based on the life of Jesus Christ.
In the period between 1945-1975 a number of denominations devised their own lectionaries which were generally scrapped in favor of the RCL. There have been a number of attempts in England to create alternative lectionaries - most notably a 4 year lectionary that would give the Gospel of John it's own year. To the best of my knowledge these have not caught on. There is also a lectionary (perhaps out of Australia?) that makes a distinction between seeker-believer tracks (those aren't the creator's terms).
Something around 80% of the world's Christians use lectionaries in some form. Statistically, the churches' that use lectionaries use more Scripture and a broader range of Scripture than the churches' that do not - although I've mislaid the comparison. You can see the distribution of readings for the Catholic lectionary at http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm RCL has very different statistics for weekdays and the Lutheran track has more narrative OT and less Wisdom OT.
Oops - did no one warn you not to use the word "lectionary" in my presence? It has a Pavlovian effect. [:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Super Tramp said:
I would ask if the party responsible for the choices would exclude some passages and promote others in an effort to mold doctrinal belief's of the worshipers.
The "party" is essentially 2000 years of common experience. Each iteration draws on what has gone before across multiple traditions to reach some consensus for the contemporary circumstances. Besides the obvious "we don't have the time to proclaim the entire canon in the Sunday service" reasons for excluding passages, major criteria include: that a pericope of a reasonable size can be selected (2-3 chapters of Gospel occur only twice a year), that the assembly can reasonably be expected to listen and understand the passage (Paul is sometimes a bit challenging, you may have noticed.) ... i.e. a lot of pragmatics.
The truth of the matter is that I have a bit of trouble getting my head around excluding/promoting on doctrinal grounds - it may be because the homilies of Mass are not intended to be doctrinal.
Super Tramp said:Do some churches follow the lectionary for morning worship and then preach sermon series in the evening?
Historically, I suspect this would fall into the Sunday afternoon catechetical sermons that were the in thing in the early reformation. This is one thread in the development of the Question-Answer style of catechisms that arose early in the reformation. Certainly the Anglican tradition supported differing styles and theological grounding for sermons depending upon which service of the day it was. But the lectionary only covers liturgical occasions. Preaching outside the liturgy has a different theology and structure and does have free-form selection of texts.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
This is one thread in the development of the Question-Answer style of catechisms
Raised in the Stone-Campbell tradition, I had no exposure to catechisms. I find them highly educational and beneficial, although I do not think of them as creeds like I believe others do.
I find lectionaries & catechisms as fascinating tools.
Is there any relationship between the three year cycle and the three year ministry of Christ?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
Is there any relationship between the three year cycle and the three year ministry of Christ?
No, it relates to the 3 synoptic Gospels. So the life of Christ is traced in Sundays once a year.In the Byzantine tradition this is emphasized by a festal row on the iconostasis which shows the major feasts and hence the major thread of the life of Christ in icons. So you get both the aural and visual life of Christ.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Super Tramp said:
I find lectionaries & catechisms as fascinating tools.
Lectionaries are a great example of how the old adage 'Rules were made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools' should be applied.
If you feel called to teach today what you taught yesterday turn to the Lectionary and perhaps find something equally valuable, but different, and maybe difficult, to say.
Lectionaries, while they do not cover all scripture can be a great device to help us not ignore parts of the bible.
This weeks sermon Matthew 18 15 ff (actually last week in the Lectionary) is not a text that I would naturally have chosen.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mike Binks said:
Lectionaries are a great example of how the old adage 'Rules were made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools' should be applied.
How 'bout "Rules allow fools to appear wise"?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Mike Binks said:
Lectionaries are a great example of how the old adage 'Rules were made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools' should be applied.
How 'bout "Rules allow fools to appear wise"?
No - don't like that - too close to home.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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