Forum Guidelines: No Theology Debates
Comments
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Yay, team!
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Bob Pritchett said:
There is no "policy," there's just how we do things. Not deleting is the general rule, but even that hasn't been absolute. We do delete robot spam, for example.
We're generally trying the "no delete" style, but I thought the Kilroy creation and posts were just an intentional provocation, and weren't from a real user. (No address, no phone, no purchase history.) I don't see deleting a "not real user" as contrary to my free speech policy.
I did delete the one thread that was inflaming all this this week simply because I was tired of its continued existence. That was an arbitrary personal indulgence, not a policy. :-)
Thank you
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Bob Pritchett said:
I did delete the one thread that was inflaming all this this week simply because I was tired of its continued existence. That was an arbitrary personal indulgence, not a policy. :-)
Sounds like a good enough reason to me. Thank you, kind sir.
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Thank you.
Feel free to engage in any other arbitrary personal indulgences that would make you feel better. You're on a roll.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Thank you.
Feel free to engage in any other arbitrary personal indulgences that would make you feel better. You're on a roll.
And if Bob feels like having a Logos sale for Independence Day (July 4th in the USA) I say, "Knock yourself out!"
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I agree 100% that it's your right to delete, or not delete, at your discretion. I didn't see the posts by Kilroy nearly as inflammatory as most of the 300 other posts. As to being a "not real user", Is it a rule that one has to purchase the software in order to post on the forums? Did you check all the other 300 posts for validity?Bob Pritchett said:We're generally trying the "no delete" style, but I thought the Kilroy creation and posts were just an intentional provocation, and weren't from a real user. (No address, no phone, no purchase history.) I don't see deleting a "not real user" as contrary to my free speech policy.
I did delete the one thread that was inflaming all this this week simply because I was tired of its continued existence. That was an arbitrary personal indulgence, not a policy. :-)
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Bob Pritchett said:
I did delete the one thread that was inflaming all this this week simply because I was tired of its continued existence. That was an arbitrary personal indulgence, not a policy. :-)
Thank you.
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Bob,
Thanks for bad mouthing 95% of your customer base. As for Logos' new Catholic project manager
As a former Roman Catholic and convinced Protestant, but someone who is still interested in Roman Catholic theology, I am disappointed with the decision by Logos to introduce this emphasis in their product line. Nothing personal against Andrew, but to already hear of the 'living tradition' means that he will have to introduce works that argue against sola scriptura which will of necessity set the authority of the Roman church above the Word of God. But of course in Rome's view, their tradition IS the Word of God. Let's hope Logos will have the spiritual fortitude to produce works that expose the errors of Rome and save the unknowing from the errors of a system that can refer to a man as 'Holy Father'.
I don't want to sound out of control, but I was just wondering where's the Lutheran, or Greek Orthodox, or Pentecostal project manager?
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Richard Masciantonio said:
I don't want to sound out of control, but I was just wondering where's the Lutheran, or Greek Orthodox, or Pentecostal project manager?
Perhaps if there was a large market for those groups, I'm sure Logos would hire product managers.
Richard Masciantonio said:Nothing personal against Andrew, but to already hear of the 'living tradition' means that he will have to introduce works that argue against sola scriptura which will of necessity set the authority of the Roman church above the Word of God.
You are not forced to purchase those resources, what is your point? As a convert to the Catholic Church, I certainly do not get upset if I hear Protestant theology or views... why should you get upset hearing "Roman" viewpoints? If you are convinced, then grow thicker skin.
- Michael
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Michael
I’m glad you noticed the ‘market’ factor here; though I hope that’s not the reason Logos brought Andrew on board.
My point is Logos can publish RC titles without a project manager as they have done in the past and many of which I have purchased. My point, which I made in my post, is that many Roman Catholic works will of necessity reduce the written Word of God to the level of ‘living tradition’. I am sure that you are aware that the Catechism puts the Word of God within the larger category (in Rome’s opinion) of Tradition, again the very tradition that allows the title for God the Father to be applied to a man.
Jn. 17:11 Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
All of those who have true faith in Jesus Christ are in organic unity with one another and enjoy true catholicity, and this is the work of the Holy Father. Christian courtesy will keep me from commenting further on how some apply this title.
God bless
Lu.6:28
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Richard Masciantonio said:
My point, which I made in my post, is that many Roman Catholic works will of necessity reduce the written Word of God to the level of ‘living tradition’.
Richard, I think this is venturing into precisely what Bob is telling us not to do in the first post of this thread: engaging in a theological debate.
Stop.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard Masciantonio said:
I’m glad you noticed the ‘market’ factor here; though I hope that’s not the reason Logos brought Andrew on board.
I've got no inside knowledge into their reasoning...
Richard Masciantonio said:My point, which I made in my post, is that many Roman Catholic works will of necessity reduce the written Word of God to the level of ‘living tradition’.
Who cares... Within the Protestant tradition there are many people on this forum who hold different views on important topics such as salvation. Should Logos select a particular tradition and dismiss all others? Common Richard, grow some skin... people here come from all sorts of neat and interesting backgrounds... When you read something from Andrew (or any other Catholic), just dismiss it and move on. I've noticed that most people here are quite secure in their faith and will not be swayed by a single "tradition" statement from Andrew or any Catholic.
- Michael
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Michael Gaskin said:
Who cares... Within the Protestant tradition there are many people on this forum who hold different views on important topics such as salvation. Should Logos select a particular tradition and dismiss all others out?
Michael, this is also engaging in theological debate, which this thread is intended to stop.
So stop. Just stop.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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In my personal opinion, your point is exactly the reason Protestants and Catholics should be PLEASED with what Logos is doing—not angry.Richard Masciantonio said:he will have to introduce works that argue against sola scriptura which will of necessity set the authority of the Roman church above the Word of God.
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will allow you to develop a stronger argument to persuade others of their error.
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will bring in more Roman Catholic users who will then also get exposed to Protestant resources that could persuade them to embrace Sola Scriptura.
- From a Catholic perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Catholic tradition will simply make them happy to use Logos.
Logos, like any good Library, is neutral to "why" people read certain content. If a user wants to read a book to research and writing... you win. If a user wants to read a book to debunk bad theology... you win. If a user wants to read a book to reinforce their theology.. you win.
In the end, more Catholic resources is a Win Win Win situation for everybody of every tradition who cares about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Michael, this is also engaging in theological debate, which this thread is intended to stop.
So stop. Just stop.
<laughs> If you think that was a theological debate, goodness... you need to grow some skin too.
- Michael
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Bob Pritchett said:
There is no "policy," there's just how we do things.
Bob Pritchett said:I don't see deleting a "not real user" as contrary to my free speech policy.
[^o)] HHHMMMmmm~~~ [^o)]
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Joe Miller said:
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will bring in more Roman Catholic users who will then also get exposed to Protestant resources that could persuade them to embrace Sola Scriptura.
I expect a note from the forum police on this... If I get an infraction on my message above this one, surely, this will as well... <smiles> We're getting close to silliness...
- Michael
PS: I'm wondering if the person giving me the infraction actually read my entire message....???
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Richard
Thank you for the word of caution, but please note a number of things. Bob’s comment on “out of control Protestants” is a caricature at best. As I sated in my last post, all those who have true faith in Christ enjoy true catholicity. We see this in the fact that Reformed, Lutheran, Pentecostal/Charismatic and others who enjoy fellowship with one another and are in agreement with the truth of the Gospel (Gal. 2:14). This ‘evangelical unity’ is real and strong enough to allow groups to hold on to distinctives that are dear to them without being branded as heretics or by the euphemism of ‘separated brethren’. Please do not take offense at my use of this term as I mean none.
I am not debating here, and will abide by your request. What I am doing is showing what Roman Catholicism plainly and unapologetically teaches and wondering aloud will Logos produce works that answer Rome’s claims. Certainly no Christian of any denominational stripe can be at ease when divine titles are applied to men, especially without any scriptural warrant. But this is exactly the issue when you have a source of authority through which the Word of God must be interpreted.
Michael, thanks for the exchange, rickster54@hotmail.com
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Hi Michael,
The point I am making is that Logos is not in the business of controlling how users might apply the resources in their library. There is no reason for Logos to take a position (Catholic or Reformed, or Arminian) because everyone who reads will have a different use for the same book. If someone wants to read a book to affirm their faith or research a paper or develop a stronger apologetic, you are free to do that.
Here is my analogy. Imagine Logos has been selling screwdrivers for the past 20 years. Now, Logos has decided to expand their line of tools and sell hammers. Some customers might get angry and say, "Hey Logos, don't you care about screwdrivers anymore?" "If everyone starts buying hammers, then they wont love their screwdrivers as much." "Logos, if you are going to sell hammers, why is there no disclaimer on the right way to use it?"
Again, this is just my personal perspective, but Logos just provides the hammer, you can decide how to use it.
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Joe Miller said:
Again, this is just my personal perspective, but Logos just provides the hammer, you can decide how to use it.
I am in complete agreement with you... I only quoted your text to also show that some might believe you are making theological debate.
Perhaps we're getting a little to nit-picky with our forum policing efforts...
Take care!
- Michael
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Richard Masciantonio said:
Michael, thanks for the exchange, rickster54@hotmail.com
I'm not sure what you are talking about? What exchange? My point was that you need to grow some skin, which I stand by. See previous post. Was there something that you wanted to discuss outside that realm?
- Michael
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Hello Joe,
This is Richard. I understand and agree with the point you’re making, and I would suggest to you that Logos has been doing that up to this time, just look at the product list. But let’s not forget or ignore we’re not talking about hammers and screws (not to over-emphasize your valid illustration) we are talking about truth here. And while we want to exhibit Christian character toward those we disagree with, we can never forget what we are dealing with and before Whom we are doing it.
God bless
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No Mike, just my way of signing off. Believe me my skin is fine and I’m comfortable in it. As you can imagine I’ve been down this road a number of times and always enjoy it.
Again God bless!
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Richard Masciantonio said:
As you can imagine I’ve been down this road a number of times and always enjoy it.
Oh yes I imagine it quite easily... You "enjoy" it... interesting.
- Michael
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John A. Taylor said:
As a Pentecostal with a cousin who is a Catholic Priest, a son-in-law who is a Lutheran pastor, a sister-in-law who is a devoted Catholic, and a now deceased uncle who was a Free-Methodist pastor, I've found that we can agree on far more than we disagree on. And I've been enriched by peaceful discussions, over the Word, about the areas we disagree on.
Hi John,
I was expecting your sentence to end something like:
"... and a now deceased uncle who was a Free-Methodist pastor, I found that letting our theological discussions get out of hand did not end well..."
Regards,
Clinton
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Joe Miller said:
In my personal opinion, your point is exactly the reason Protestants and Catholics should be PLEASED with what Logos is doing—not angry.Richard Masciantonio said:he will have to introduce works that argue against sola scriptura which will of necessity set the authority of the Roman church above the Word of God.
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will allow you to develop a stronger argument to persuade others of their error.
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will bring in more Roman Catholic users who will then also get exposed to Protestant resources that could persuade them to embrace Sola Scriptura.
- From a Catholic perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Catholic tradition will simply make them happy to use Logos.
Logos, like any good Library, is neutral to "why" people read certain content. If a user wants to read a book to research and writing... you win. If a user wants to read a book to debunk bad theology... you win. If a user wants to read a book to reinforce their theology.. you win.
In the end, more Catholic resources is a Win Win Win situation for everybody of every tradition who cares about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
good point, Joe.
The more books the better. And the more ability that anybody has to actually study the Bible and be exposed to the Bible texts the bette.r
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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Joe Miller said:
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will allow you to develop a stronger argument to persuade others of their error.
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will bring in more Roman Catholic users who will then also get exposed to Protestant resources that could persuade them to embrace Sola Scriptura.
- From a Catholic perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Catholic tradition will simply make them happy to use Logos.
With all respect, Joe, your three points do not a friendly invitation to all Catholics (or other non-Protestant Christians) offer. Reworded, they sound like this: In Logos, Protestants find ammunition for their dispute with Catholicism and hope for their efforts to convert its faithful, while Catholics find resources they'll enjoy.
Seriously?
Why must we frame the Protestant-Catholic (or Baptist-Presbyterian, or Evangelical-Mainline, or...) in such combative terminology, as if we and they (whoever "we" and "they" might be) are in a struggle for superiority, some kind of ecclesiastical/theological death match of wisdom and wills? Why think of Logos as a tool to use against other followers of Jesus at all?
How about this instead....
In Logos, Protestants may find resources to aid and encourage their exploration of Scripture, and in the process grow their faith and strengthen their connections to the Savior those Scriptures proclaim.
In Logos, Catholics may find resources to aid and encourage their exploration of Scripture,
and in the process grow their faith and strengthen their connections to
the Savior those Scriptures proclaim.In Logos, Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, and all who claim Jesus as Lord may find resources to deepen their understanding of and respect for their own and each other's traditions, resources that will help describe the history, doctrine, and practices that define both the diversity and essential unity of the Body of Christ to which all followers belong.
And if you can't say something that respectful about those "other" Christians, the ones whose theology you are just convinced is their ticket to Hell, then simply say Logos helps you. (STOP! That's all! Shhhh! Don't talk about "them"! Step away from the conclusion!)
The thread that prompted this current thread turned acrimonious because the focus turned away from the tools Logos provides for Bible study (common ground for us COPs (Catholics/Orthodox/Protestants), and toward the character and faithfulness of those who use those resources. Had the original post said something like, "I am looking for resources about my tradition other Logos users have found particularly helpful. Recommendations?" This current thread would not exist.
At its best and most useful, Logos is not an implement deployed in contests against other Christians. It is a tool to explore and understand God's Word. Surely we can grow our own faith, value our own traditions, and use our own Logos installations without devaluing others.... At least in these forums.
Blessings,
Bill
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I notice we're still discussing/debating theology. [8-|]
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Bill Coley said:
With all respect, Joe, your three points do not a friendly invitation to all Catholics (or other non-Protestant Christians) offer. Reworded, they sound like this: In Logos, Protestants find ammunition for their dispute with Catholicism and hope for their efforts to convert its faithful, while Catholics find resources they'll enjoy.
I agree with your assessment... I just didn't want to start a theological debate. <grins> the poster is coming from the assumption he is correct and other people are wrong. Which if this was the correct forum I would be dispute... which it is not. In any event, that's not a good way to start a dialog with people who have differing opinions... I do agree with the poster, sorry forget name, that more material for all is a great thing.
- Michael
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Richard Masciantonio said:
As a former Roman Catholic and convinced Protestant, but someone who is still interested in Roman Catholic theology, I am disappointed with the decision by Logos to introduce this emphasis in their product line. Nothing personal against Andrew, but to already hear of the 'living tradition' means that he will have to introduce works that argue against sola scriptura which will of necessity set the authority of the Roman church above the Word of God. But of course in Rome's view, their tradition IS the Word of God. Let's hope Logos will have the spiritual fortitude to produce works that expose the errors of Rome and save the unknowing from the errors of a system that can refer to a man as 'Holy Father'.
I don't want to sound out of control, but I was just wondering where's the Lutheran, or Greek Orthodox, or Pentecostal project manager?
This website and company is BOB's puppy, his ball, his bundle of joy. HE calls the shots, period. I don't have to like it...though sometimes I do (which is why he has so much of my money). [:|]
I hear your "concern", Richard. But hard as it may be to take and swallow, you're overstepping, IMO. God said, "I set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore, choose life." (Deut. 30:19) This choice is ultimately a personal one, and no one (other than a parent of a child) has a right to hinder that process of making a choice, even if the wrong choice is made. YHWH could have killed off Satan before creating Adam and Eve and thus eliminate any worry about coming into contact with a "contaminating influence", but that would have avoided the whole PURPOSE, which was for people to CHOOSE which "spiritual style" they desire...blessing and life or cursing and death. You are worried and concerned people will be swayed by material you think will lead to cursing and death. Understandable. But consider this--what if Catholics AND Protestants (and Lutherans, Orthodox, Pentecostals, to include those you mentioned) are ALL wrong??? Considering what Rev. 12:9 says about Satan deceiving the whole world, it's something worthy of consideration...and it may not be as preposterous as you first think. Unless the apostle was wrong...
Point being, stop worrying about other people's decisions and contact with error. This world is DESIGNED by YHWH to give every person precisely that OPPORTUNITY...to encounter error and conclude that it is a bad deal altogether...and determine that God has the better offer. You do what you can to influence them in the way that you think is best--if it really is best. And with all this in mind, let Bob have his way. This is his ball...he makes the rules. He's just giving peole the tools to make their decision...whether good or bad.
Also, while this is directed at Richard, all should give ear. NO MORE THEOLOGICAL DEBATES! (Disclaimer: Though the above may appear to be a theologically-tinged comment, it is rather intended as a purely logical defense of the proprietor's method of operation. Any appearance of theological seemingness is merely a by-product of attempting to convey the suitability of that M.O. using the most appropriate tools at hand.) [:$]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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