Forum Guidelines: No Theology Debates
Comments
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Bob Pritchett said:
Logos Bible Software is here to serve everyone who studies the Bible. That is intentionally "big tent" and we intentionally do not have a statement of faith or a doctrinal position.
The forums are here to support and discuss Logos Bible Software. There are plenty of forums for gladitorial theological combat; please take those discussions there.
Peace to you, Bob!
Thank you for your post! Indeed! The Forums have been a real blessing to me.
You and Logos Bible Software will be in my prayers!
Remember! Always Joy in the Lord!
*smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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[Y]Milford Charles Murray said:Bob Pritchett said:Logos Bible Software is here to serve everyone who studies the Bible. That is intentionally "big tent" and we intentionally do not have a statement of faith or a doctrinal position.
The forums are here to support and discuss Logos Bible Software. There are plenty of forums for gladitorial theological combat; please take those discussions there.
Peace to you, Bob!
Thank you for your post! Indeed! The Forums have been a real blessing to me.
You and Logos Bible Software will be in my prayers!
Remember! Always Joy in the Lord!
*smile*
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Joe Miller said:
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will allow you to develop a stronger argument to persuade others of their error.
- From a Protestant perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Roman Catholic tradition will bring in more Roman Catholic users who will then also get exposed to Protestant resources that could persuade them to embrace Sola Scriptura.
- From a Catholic perspective, having resources in Logos that are more authoritative in the Catholic tradition will simply make them happy to use Logos.
Logos, like any good Library, is neutral to "why" people read certain content. If a user wants to read a book to research and writing... you win. If a user wants to read a book to debunk bad theology... you win. If a user wants to read a book to reinforce their theology.. you win.
In the end, more Catholic resources is a Win Win Win situation for everybody of every tradition who cares about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Nicely put Joe. I love the fact that Logos has other content that doesn't neccessarily align with my theology. I love any resource from any period with any language so I can grasp the arguments and theological stands at any point in history. I personally think it's important to know the doctrines of other denominations and faiths to give a proper defense for Christ. I do not use the forums for any theological debate, but for issues that may arise from my L4 use and the occassional suggestion I may give or respond to. I think you summed it up very nice.
Matt
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Thanks, Bob.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Anyone know of any good commentaries on this section of Galatians?
Galatians 5:13-15
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." k15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.0 -
Michael said:
Anyone know of any good commentaries on this section of Galatians?
Nice, messages are almost died down to nothing...people got it. But, if your intention was to throw the Bible in my face, it worked; however, if it was truly to highlight an important principle, thank you. Your motivation is something only you and God know.
- Michael
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The sermon at church yesterday was on this passage. I am new to Logos and am not very good at finding things in it yet and I wanted to research this scripture. I thought this was a good place to ask. I apologize if it wasn't.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
You'll probably have more replies if you start a new thread with your question regarding resources on the passage in Galatians. This thread itself probably isn't the best place for it, although the forums in general are!
Kenny
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Thanks Kenny.
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Bob,
Having read all the responses to your original post, which I hadn't seen until this morning, I will just say:
Thanks for your original post.
Al
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Wouldn't it be great if all the people who waste their time and energy
on petty things put that time and energy into Bible study?With this comment, you are suggesting that the truth of the gospel is a petty thing? While there are some who attend Roman Catholic churches who are true Christians, Roman Catholic Theology itself is not consistent with the Biblical gospel as proclaimed by the apostles. Consider the stern warning Paul gave to false teachers in Galatians 1:6-9.
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Jim Orr said:
Wouldn't it be great if all the people who waste their time and energy on petty things put that time and energy into Bible study?
With this comment, you are suggesting that the truth of the gospel is a petty thing? While there are some who attend Roman Catholic churches who are true Christians, Roman Catholic Theology itself is not consistent with the Biblical gospel as proclaimed by the apostles. Consider the stern warning Paul gave to false teachers in Galatians 1:6-9.
My friend, you think Catholic theology isn't consistent with the gospel, but I would tell you that "evangelical" theology also isn't compatible with the gospel. The gospel is not theology and doesn't depend on theology. The gospel regards a trust in the love of God revealed in Jesus Christ and not in thinking the right thoughts. When Christianity was still in the crib there was a movement known as gnosticism which essentially contended that you need to get your thoughts straight regarding reality. If you conceived of reality properly, then you were home free. That is not Christianity; that is not the gospel.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
My friend, you think Catholic theology isn't consistent with the gospel, but I would tell you that "evangelical" theology also isn't compatible with the gospel.
George, while I've really wanted to say something directly against the position of these trolls, I've refrained. Except for Peter of course, we had an exchange in email but not here... Yes, I want to scream at their logic, but I do not... it just feeds them. Anyway, perhaps we should let it lie and maybe they will go away and stay on the CARM forums?
- Michael
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At least he was brave enough to put his real picture on - unlike some of the earlier theological geniuses
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John ... keep in mind some of these entries are spoofs (like the one above yours).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Looks like Stephen & Co deleted the spoofed entries.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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George Somsel said:
My friend, you think Catholic theology isn't consistent with the gospel, but I would tell you that "evangelical" theology also isn't compatible with the gospel. The gospel is not theology and doesn't depend on theology. The gospel regards a trust in the love of God revealed in Jesus Christ and not in thinking the right thoughts. When Christianity was still in the crib there was a movement known as gnosticism which essentially contended that you need to get your thoughts straight regarding reality. If you conceived of reality properly, then you were home free. That is not Christianity; that is not the gospel.
Amen - some of the wisest words you have spoken.
Yours because His,
Floyd
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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I'm not aware of too many things, I know what I know, if you know what I mean. One of those things I know that comes into play here is, this is NOT the place to discuss theology. This is NOT the place to start discussions on theology. This is NOT the place to finish discussions on theology. And finally I tell those who have ears to hear, this is NOT the place to stay mired in discussions of theology.
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It was thanks to Daffy, that it became obvious 'fake-Daffy' didn't have a Daffy-picture!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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In other words, "Please study the Bible, but be sure not to actually arrive at any convictions," right? Interesting mission statement...
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DMB said:
It was thanks to Daffy, that it became obvious 'fake-Daffy' didn't have a Daffy-picture!
Please don't bring Daffy into this... <smiles>
- Michael
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Bob Pritchett said:
protestants don't do a good job getting along on a single doctrinal statement. That's why the Catholic church is basically one large church, and the average protestant church splits after reaching 100-200 people. I know the attacks are painful and unkind, but please understand that you're "surrounded" by people who traditionally are more likely to split a church than seek unity. In the protestant mindset there isn't a single authority figure who will be respected, let alone able to quell debate and dissension.
Bob,
While I support your policy not to debate theological issues and am saddened that some users have offended Roman Church users. I am also offended by the closing words of your last paragraph. As a Reformational Christian I in no way believe that I have split away from the true church. The reformation was about preserving the one Holy Apostolic Church, not splitting it up.
As for divisions there have always been divisions in the church. You would do well to read some of your excellent resources on church history. The Roman church as aways had theological divisions and still does. Most Protestants get along with other Protestants better than most monastic orders did in the middle ages. Your characterization of Protestants was very unfair.
Sincerely,
Keith Larson
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Keith Larson said:Bob Pritchett said:
protestants don't do a good job getting along on a single doctrinal statement. That's why the Catholic church is basically one large church, and the average protestant church splits after reaching 100-200 people. I know the attacks are painful and unkind, but please understand that you're "surrounded" by people who traditionally are more likely to split a church than seek unity. In the protestant mindset there isn't a single authority figure who will be respected, let alone able to quell debate and dissension.
Bob,
While I support your policy not to debate theological issues and am saddened that some users have offended Roman Church users. I am also offended by the closing words of your last paragraph. As a Reformational Christian I in no way believe that I have split away from the true church. The reformation was about preserving the one Holy Apostolic Church, not splitting it up.
As for divisions there have always been divisions in the church. You would do well to read some of your excellent resources on church history. The Roman church as aways had theological divisions and still does. Most Protestants get along with other Protestants better than most monastic orders did in the middle ages. Your characterization of Protestants was very unfair.
Sincerely,
Keith Larson
It is correct that Logos should be a tool for all users no matter what their theological background. Cluttering up the forum with non-software related discussions detracts from users easily finding information on how to use the software.
That being said, Bob could have stopped at telling people that this is not the place for theological discussions... for the above reason... period. He didn't have to throw in his own theological jab at protestants.
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Mr. Pritchett,
Perhaps a global point should be addressed...what is the true point of the forums and are they really serving that purpose you expected them to (they are your forums correct?)?
I believe the only way to stop the theological debates, etc.... is to shut down the forums. Additionally, and I may be misunderstanding this, however, I wish that companies like Logos would rely on their customer service teams to address questions about Logos (either on the phone, chat, skype, remote access, etc...) instead of referring people to the forums to obtain their answers from amateurs.
I include myself in the beguilement that has occurred where so many technology/software companies have relegated customer service to a Logos-type laity.
Overall, I would think that the purchase of your software would include world-class customer service for all aspects of the software, including the latest media to access such professionals under your employment, where the aforementioned avocational forum would be unnecessary.
In summary, perhaps if Logos were to remove the expected reliance for customer service on those outside of the customer service employment by Logos (i.e. theologians, etc... using the forum and are well versed in Logos), the forums would be most unnecessary and the pugilistic polemics of theology would become archaic.
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Pat Flanakin said:
Perhaps a global point should be addressed...what is the true point of the forums and are they really serving that purpose you expected them to (they are your forums correct?)? . . .
I'm sure Bob can speak for himself, but as a part of the forums from the beginning and now a forum MVP, I might be able to answer some of your points.
The purpose of the forums, as I understand it, is for users to talk with each other about Logos software. It's really that simple. This used to happen in a newsgroup, and now happens in a web-based forum. We give each other tips and advice, ask some basic 'how to' questions, and sometimes wonder out loud about what we wish the software could do (sometimes to find out that it actually does it already).
As regarding the forums as a place to refer people when they call customer support, I've just got a few comments that come out of listening to Logos talk about how the forums work for/with their paid support staff.
First, I would rather have Logos spend money on developing resources and the program, than in answer simple tech problems that can often be resolved with a little friendly advice from a fellow user. This saves Logos thousands of dollars a year, and solves many of the problems that do not need professional support at all. My guess is that the majority of their support calls could be resolved by us amateurs in these forums.
Second, when there is a problem that we users can't handle, we are not reluctant to refer them on the tech support. In fact, having run through the most obvious solutions, they are that much farther ahead and often more knowledgeable about their issues when then get to tech support.
Third, Logos has been impressed with the level of support the forums have been able to provide, going beyond their expectations. That referral on the phone isn't a cop-out as much as it is an acknowledgement that tech support has some peers here who volunteer our time and expertise.
Sure, sometimes we get it wrong. I know I have. And hopefully we learn as we go and come to understand where the limits of our ability to actually help stops, and where the time to refer to professional support begins.
Logos is a world-class company and actually does offer world-class support. A part of that support strategy has come to include the forums.
I don't know if it's possible to totally eliminate theological debates. And I'm quite sure that Logos doesn't want to be heavy handed about applying it. I'm also quite sure Logos is discussing how best to proceed with managing these forums as a welcome place for all its users. I pray God's wisdom for them as they do.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Amen
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Richard DeRuiter said:
The purpose of the forums, as I understand it, is for users to talk with each other about Logos software. It's really that simple.
Richard, as you say, it really is that simple[:D]
The logos forum is the place to get advice on how to use Logos, how can anyone say it better?
I go to the forum to get help with Logos.
If they want to interact with me on "On my Theology", they can look up my web site and blog (Si ellos hablan en español).
The forums work even if a pesty Troll shows up. [+o(] Don´t Respond, Dont Engage, Just Ignore [:$]
http://hombrereformado.blogspot.com/ Solo a Dios la Gloria Apoyo
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Hi Pat,
First, I truly do appreciate what you are saying. I think everyone will acknowledge that the cost of Logos when compared to competitors' prices would lead someone to believe that customer service should be vastly superior to the competition. Personally I have found that it is. Not many Bible Software companies have a voice answer the phone every time you call with no phone tree. They have provided video tutorials to help get people started learning the software. The president of the company stays engaged on the forums as much as possible and has employees who monitor them for bug reports, suggestions, and the like. Granted they do not police the forum, but that topic has been beaten into the ground lately and I'd rather leave it there with 6 feet of dirt on top :-) Mark Barnes has done an excellent job creating tutorial videos that are freely available to supplement Logos' videos. Yes, Logos could invest huge sums of money and resources to duplicate that which Mark has done so that Logos reps could point users to their own videos. However that would be somewhat pointless and, IMHO, somewhat unappreciative of the work Mark has done. The fact that there are resources available in addition to Logos own excellent support (e.g. the Wiki, videos from Mark and others, the forums, not to mention paid services) does not diminish the fact that Logos' support is excellent, it just adds to it. Granted I do believe there should be greater in-application help available but in general when I have a question I often find the answer in the Logos help file.
Pat Flanakin said:instead of referring people to the forums to obtain their answers from amateurs.
I would argue that many who answer questions on these forums are anything but amateurs when it comes to Logos software. They are pastors, teachers, chaplains, and students of scripture who use the tool daily to help them accomplish their jobs. I mean no disrespect to the great customer service personnel at Logos but while they are busy answering phones and often looking up answers in a standard sheet (which is their job) those who answer questions on these forums are busy using the software to prepare sermons, bible lessons, and care for people. On the side they multiply the benefit of what they have learned by answering questions on the forums. I would argue that regardless of whether they are amateurs, paid staff, or professionals they are the most qualified individuals to answer other peoples' questions about Logos software. Granted we do have a ways to go sometimes with how to answer those questions and when to avoid responding when our answers will not benefit someone's use of the software. In that way we can perhaps be unprofessional sometimes but we love the software and we are willing to make some mistakes along the way for the sake of those we benefit.
Pat Flanakin said:including the latest media to access such professionals under your employment, where the aforementioned avocational forum would be unnecessary.
As mentioned above, I believe this would result in no real benefit to Logos users as Mark's videos have been a benefit to many users. The only benefit I would gain is being able to afford fewer resources because they would have to charge even more for them. That's a benefit I can live without!
Pat Flanakin said:I believe the only way to stop the theological debates, etc.... is to shut down the forums.
True, that would stop the theological debates, but it would also end all the support and answers many people have found on these forums. I personally hope that does not happen because often I find myself being the recipient of someone else's discovery.
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George Somsel said:
My friend, you think Catholic theology isn't consistent with the gospel, but I would tell you that "evangelical" theology also isn't compatible with the gospel. The gospel is not theology and doesn't depend on theology. The gospel regards a trust in the love of God revealed in Jesus Christ and not in thinking the right thoughts. When Christianity was still in the crib there was a movement known as gnosticism which essentially contended that you need to get your thoughts straight regarding reality. If you conceived of reality properly, then you were home free. That is not Christianity; that is not the gospel.
George,
You have accomplished a feat that I have not witnessed in
more than a decade of seminary studies with the help of Logos software. Pay no
attention to the jealous folks who insist that there is a reason it (the feat)
has never been done.You have managed to define what the gospel “is not” and what
the gospel “is” without making a single theological statement. Bob must be
happy. (Of course, if these were theological statements as some might argue, it
would mean that even your gospel is theology, even if it is theology that one
needs to live out in through personal trust in God). [:P]As Always...
Alain
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