Suggestion: Allowing husband and wives to share one Logos 4 license

Hello, although the bible considers a husband and wive "one", the EULA is a legal document in which legally, we're two separate people which means I can't share my Logos 4 license with my wife. We each have our own laptops and so the line:

We hereby grant You a nonexclusive license to use the Software and "unlocked" Content on the computer or computers used primarily by You, the licensed user. (For example, on a home, office, and laptop computer, all of which are used primarily by You.)

means that I can only install on my machines. My first suggestion and request is to allow husband and wives to share one Logos license by updating the EULA to allow it.

My second suggestion would be to allow two separate profiles logins to be associated so the data synced to the cloud (ie, reading plan) will be for each of us. I understand that this might be abused, but it's something I'd like for Logos to consider.

These two suggestions are independent (although the first would have to be implemented before the second one could work). I would be happy enough with just the first one, but having the second one as well would be even better.

Thoughts... ??

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Donald G. Fisher

Sounds like it is time to take ownership of her computer. Seems to be the easiest solution to me.

Let me know how that works!

don

Matthew C Jones

Sounds like it is time to take ownership of her computer. Seems to be the easiest solution to me.

Let me know how that works!

don

[;)]

spitzerpl

we're two separate people which means I can't share my Logos 4 license with my wife.

This would be very nice.

J.R. Miller

Sounds like it is time to take ownership of her computer. Seems to be the easiest solution to me.

Correct, sometimes the easiest way to get what you want is to be dishonest.

J.R. Miller

we're two separate people which means I can't share my Logos 4 license with my wife.

This would be very nice.

Now, if there was a legit way to buy a second license / user login, that would be cool!

Floyd Johnson

Last July Bob Pritchett posted the following:

Bob Pritchett Replied: Thu, Jul 16 2009 12:14 PM

Arrgghhh! I hate this topic. :-)

We have lots of heated discussions about this internally. Every other week we get the desperate-to-be-legal-and-ethical user who calls to confirm that they can install the software on their desktop and notebook computer. The other weeks we hear about the every-loophole-finding user who wants to parse our latest statement on the EULA to let them install the software on every machine they see, and to charge people for the service.

I am not going to answer all your questions. Ever. I don't want to. I don't want a clean-cut policy, because it just annoys the honest user who has a legitimate situation while doing nothing to stop the person who justifies-to-themselves whatever behavior they want.

So what follow is still not "the final answer." It's a guide, similar to what I tell our CS people. (Who all wish I wouldn't give them discretion, but would instead make an easy-to-refer-to policy. :-) )

We license the software to one user.

If you are one user with 10 computers, because you run a Mac, Windows, notebook, netbook, desktop, church, home, and three flavors of Linux, I don't care. You're just one user, albeit with too many computers.

(People call up and say "how many computers can I put it on?" We don't care, if they're all YOUR computers. When we say "3", as we used to, for convenience, we'd get people who called with lengthy and unnecessary explanations for why they owned four computers. We'd also get people who would install it on the Pastor, Youth Pastor, and Sunday School Teacher's computers. And we'd say that was wrong, and they'd say "You said three computers for one owner, and the church is the owner, so it's legal to put it on three computers used by people who work at the church." I say, that's abusing the license.)

What about my spouse? What about my child?

Well, now it depends. Are you and your spouse "one user"? I know lots of people who have a single email address like JoeAndMary@somemail.com. They have one computer, one email address, one copy of Windows, (one car? one cell phone?) etc. To me, they're "one user." Same thing when little Joey uses the family computer.

But if we extend the license to "officially" allow family use, we get (actual) scenarios like: Joe and Mary are both ordained ministers who attend and preach at different churches on Sunday morning. Each has an office, their own computer, their own salary and budget, and even their own church secretary. This, to me, doesn't feel like "one user". This feels like two users.

We also get Pastor Joe who has a 22 year old son Joe, Jr. in seminary, or a 35 year old son who is a pastor across the country. We've had people tell us they don't need multiple licenses, because they're family members. But Pastor Joe and grown-up Joe, Jr. seem like two users to me.

What if the user is a church, not a person?

It's great if the church wants to buy the software so the pastor doesn't have to buy it with their own funds. But that doesn't mean everyone who works at or attends the church is a legal user of the software (as some have tried to argue). It's still for "one person user"; thay can be Pastor Joe, and if Pastor Joe leaves, you can have him uninstall it and let new Pastor Mark use it instead. But we don't do site or organization licenses -- we license to a (human) user, even if an institution is the purchaser.

In the future, our software will use more web resources. You will be able to log into these resources -- and your own content -- at Logos.com using an email address and password. Our interaction will be with this "one user" who logs in, and who has one username, one email address, one mailing address, one name, one credit card, and one password. One set of note files, prayer lists, and reading plans. "One user."

I hope this helps. For the record, this email is not a replacement of the EULA or a new policy. It's just how I think about it, and how I encourage our staff to think about it.

-- Bob

I may not answer all your questions, but it may help.

Yours because His,

Floyd

spitzerpl

Correct, sometimes the easiest way to get what you want is to be dishonest.

What would you say about "taking ownership" of my friends computer? jk I know this is a serious issue. I would love to know Logos' response to this question.

Matthew C Jones

Really, this isn't a good time to re-hash the EULA thing.
BobP said he just hates talking about it and things must be really jumping around Logos HQ this week. I am sure the move towards cloud computing will get the EULA addressed in the future. For now,look up what has already been said about it in the forum.

spitzerpl

Really, this isn't a good time to re-hash the EULA thing.
BobP said he just hates talking about it and things must be really jumping around Logos HQ this week. I am sure the move towards cloud computing will get the EULA addressed in the future. For now,look up what has already been said about it in the forum.

I can appreciate your thinking. I'll weigh on the better side until then. I didn't know about Bob's previous comments regarding it.

Matthew C Jones

Sounds like it is time to take ownership of her computer. Seems to be the easiest solution to me.
Correct, sometimes the easiest way to get what you want is to be dishonest.

Joe, My smiley face winking [;)] is in relation to prying her fingers of the laptop. Not a pretense of "transfering" ownership. Some wives might tighten their grip on their laptops.

TCBlack

And my wife just took my remaining laptop after her's gave up the blue smoke. I am now without a laptop. [^o)]

J.R. Miller

Joe, My smiley face winking is in relation to prying her fingers of the laptop. Not a pretense of "transfering" ownership. Some wives might tighten their grip on their laptops.

ah, that does make me feel better. When we were going through the beta process, I learned how there are actually folks out there "selling" their one licensed copy of Scholars Gold and installing it on many many many computers. There are cracks out there that let people unlock books for free. It made me sad to think that this happens with Bible software. It also means that for every dime not rightly paid to Logos, there is less money for development of new tools for me and you.

Anyway, thanks for making your smiley face clear brother :-)

Alex Scott

Last July Bob Pritchett posted the following:

Bob Pritchett Replied: Thu, Jul 16 2009 12:14 PM

I think if we accept the spirit of Bob's response, that should be enough to answer our questions on the subject.

spitzerpl

Actually somehow I missed the post from Bob. That settles it for me!

Our interaction will be with this "one user" who logs in, and who has one username, one email address, one mailing address, one name, one credit card, and one password. One set of note files, prayer lists, and reading plans. "One user."

Bob must have been meditating on Eph 4:5 [:)]

We also get Pastor Joe who has a 22 year old son Joe, Jr. in seminary, or a 35 year old son who is a pastor across the country... But Pastor Joe and grown-up Joe, Jr. seem like two users to me.

Joe Miller - was Bob prophesying about you...? [:)]

Nathan Parker

Some more food for thought.

I own printed books, and even though I purchased them, other's in my family are welcome to pull a book off my library and read it. When I purchased the book at the store, they did not tell me that I'm the only one who's allowed to read/view it.

Not sure what the difference is in Bible software. I clearly see the legal reasons for licensing software on a per-computer basis, but for family members to access other family member's books....

Scott Stackelhouse

The problem is we are talking about duplication, not transference. It's just as illegal for one to make a physical copy of a book as it is for one to make a digital copy.

Rob

LOGOS 4's interfunctionality with different media options opens a whole new set of problems.

Donald G. Fisher

Joe,

Sorry to be late getting back to you. I am also sorry that you missed my comment to be more of a joke than anything else. If I were going to imply doing anything dishonest, your words, this forum would probably be my last avenue for expressing such a desire.

don

Robert Pavich

LOGOS 4's interfunctionality with different media options opens a whole new set of problems

In my mind....it's clear. Like the bible's admonition on those "grey areas" that aren't spelled out...

You KNOW if what you're doing is either the right thing to do...or the wrong thing to do....

Bob has said....if you just want your wife to be able to use the software...then have at it...but if your aim is to scam a free copy for your "pastor of another church" wife...then you ALREADY know the answer...right?

It doesn't seem that hard to me.

George Somsel

means that I can only install on my machines. My first suggestion and request is to allow husband and wives to share one Logos license by updating the EULA to allow it.

I'm a firm believer that whatever a husband and wife do in the privacy of their own computers is their own business -- just don't blab it all over. [;)]

Bob

In the end it will always come down to "What's worth more to you, your money or your soul?" The flexibility of your conscience will be directly related to your value system. If you value your soul you will be willing to part with mere money to protect it. If you value money you will sell your soul cheaply.

As pastors it is our duty to lead by example. As churches we will forfeit most of the only currency we have that is of worth- our moral authority - if we sponsor or even condone theft (IT IS NOT PIRACY, that involves ships at sea) or dishonesty. If you feel compelled to steal a bible or bible software why not find a more worldly position and forget religion altogether.

Matthew C Jones

You KNOW if what you're doing is either the right thing to do...or the wrong thing to do....

I wish that were always the case.

Bob has said....if you just want your wife to be able to use the software...then have at it...but if your aim is to scam a free copy for your "pastor of another church" wife...then you ALREADY know the answer...right?

So a polygamist can let all his wives use one license? [6]

Robert Pavich

So a polygamist can let all his wives use one license?

Hey...that Pharisee hat you've got on is a little crooked...

George Somsel

So a polygamist can let all his wives use one license?

Absolutely. I do it all the time. [6] [6] [6]

Jacob Hantla

I really appreciate this viewpoint and I love not being treated like an assumed criminal like Adobe & Microsoft have to do. It's cool when a Christian company can trust its Christian users. Let's live up to that trust.

Last July Bob Pritchett posted the following:

Bob Pritchett Replied: Thu, Jul 16 2009 12:14 PM

Arrgghhh! I hate this topic. :-)

We have lots of heated discussions about this internally. Every other week we get the desperate-to-be-legal-and-ethical user who calls to confirm that they can install the software on their desktop and notebook computer. The other weeks we hear about the every-loophole-finding user who wants to parse our latest statement on the EULA to let them install the software on every machine they see, and to charge people for the service.

I am not going to answer all your questions. Ever. I don't want to. I don't want a clean-cut policy, because it just annoys the honest user who has a legitimate situation while doing nothing to stop the person who justifies-to-themselves whatever behavior they want.

So what follow is still not "the final answer." It's a guide, similar to what I tell our CS people. (Who all wish I wouldn't give them discretion, but would instead make an easy-to-refer-to policy. :-) )

We license the software to one user.

If you are one user with 10 computers, because you run a Mac, Windows, notebook, netbook, desktop, church, home, and three flavors of Linux, I don't care. You're just one user, albeit with too many computers.

(People call up and say "how many computers can I put it on?" We don't care, if they're all YOUR computers. When we say "3", as we used to, for convenience, we'd get people who called with lengthy and unnecessary explanations for why they owned four computers. We'd also get people who would install it on the Pastor, Youth Pastor, and Sunday School Teacher's computers. And we'd say that was wrong, and they'd say "You said three computers for one owner, and the church is the owner, so it's legal to put it on three computers used by people who work at the church." I say, that's abusing the license.)

What about my spouse? What about my child?

Well, now it depends. Are you and your spouse "one user"? I know lots of people who have a single email address like JoeAndMary@somemail.com. They have one computer, one email address, one copy of Windows, (one car? one cell phone?) etc. To me, they're "one user." Same thing when little Joey uses the family computer.

But if we extend the license to "officially" allow family use, we get (actual) scenarios like: Joe and Mary are both ordained ministers who attend and preach at different churches on Sunday morning. Each has an office, their own computer, their own salary and budget, and even their own church secretary. This, to me, doesn't feel like "one user". This feels like two users.

We also get Pastor Joe who has a 22 year old son Joe, Jr. in seminary, or a 35 year old son who is a pastor across the country. We've had people tell us they don't need multiple licenses, because they're family members. But Pastor Joe and grown-up Joe, Jr. seem like two users to me.

What if the user is a church, not a person?

It's great if the church wants to buy the software so the pastor doesn't have to buy it with their own funds. But that doesn't mean everyone who works at or attends the church is a legal user of the software (as some have tried to argue). It's still for "one person user"; thay can be Pastor Joe, and if Pastor Joe leaves, you can have him uninstall it and let new Pastor Mark use it instead. But we don't do site or organization licenses -- we license to a (human) user, even if an institution is the purchaser.

In the future, our software will use more web resources. You will be able to log into these resources -- and your own content -- at Logos.com using an email address and password. Our interaction will be with this "one user" who logs in, and who has one username, one email address, one mailing address, one name, one credit card, and one password. One set of note files, prayer lists, and reading plans. "One user."

I hope this helps. For the record, this email is not a replacement of the EULA or a new policy. It's just how I think about it, and how I encourage our staff to think about it.

-- Bob

I may not answer all your questions, but it may help.

Yours because His,

Floyd