Community Pricing Myths

Whilst the Community Program has been around a long time now there still seems to be a number of myths associated with how this works. Having just read a couple of other threads on resources that are in the program I thought that it would be an idea to highlight some of the myths in a bid to finally dispel them.

To get this started here is Myth #1

Bidding high on a resource that you want gets it off to a quick start and encourages others to bid.

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Edwin Bowden

Myth #2

Bid below projected price.

That does not help the progress and you may miss out completely if it never reaches your lower than projected bid. If you bid the projected bid, that will help the progress so that it may wind up costing below the projected bid.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271157#Comment_271157

Myth #3

If you bid below the leading price point, you will miss out if the price doesn't drop. In truth, you will be notified when it is due to close and given an opportunity to raise your bid before closure.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271157#Comment_271157

Myth #2

Bid below projected price.

That does not help the progress and you may miss out completely if it never reaches your lower than projected bid. If you bid the projected bid, that will help the progress so that it may wind up costing below the projected bid.

Not true, It just helps progress at a different price point.

If enough people bid below the projected price the projected price will fall and it will help progress.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271189#Comment_271189

I was hoping some controversial myths would pop up. Graham, what happens when we don't know if its a myth or not??? [;)]

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271218#Comment_271218

This link may help clear up some of the questions regarding CP http://blog.logos.com/2010/02/how_community_pricing_works/

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271189#Comment_271189

Myth #2

Bid below projected price.

That does not help the progress and you may miss out completely if it never reaches your lower than projected bid. If you bid the projected bid, that will help the progress so that it may wind up costing below the projected bid.

Not true, It just helps progress at a different price point.

If enough people bid below the projected price the projected price will fall and it will help progress.

Blog on CP Bidding Strategy

http://blog.logos.com/2008/06/a_bidding_strategy_for_community_pricing/

Conclusion on that blog:

What a lot of people do is bid the lowest possible price, but that’s generally a bad idea for a few reasons:

No book has ever crossed the 100% mark at the lowest price.
Bids that are too low don’t help move the title any closer to production.
Worst of all, they put you in the prime place to miss out on the deal altogether.

Here’s the strategy that I recommend. Never bid the lowest price. Don’t even bid the highest price that you think you’d be willing to pay. Like the individual who missed out on Calvin and the Reformation, you’re probably usually willing to go up a little higher—a much better option than having to pay the higher Pre-Pub price. Here’s my recommendation: if you’re interested in a title, always bid somewhere above the midpoint.

Your first response may be that you’re not willing to pay that much money for the book. That’s okay. You won’t have to. Keep three things in mind:

Every book has crossed the 100% at the midpoint or lower and usually goes even lower, and no matter how high above the crossover point you bid, you always get the lowest price that covers production costs (e.g., if you bid $20, and it crosses over at $5, you get it for $5, not $20).
By bidding above rather than below the crossover point, you’ll drive the price even lower.
You can always remove your bid or cancel your pre-order if you’re convinced that it’s not worth the final price.

The moral of the story is that if you bid high you’ll never miss out on a deal, but if you bid too low you won’t be able to change your bid after the title moves from Community Pricing over to Pre-Pub.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271237#Comment_271237

No book has ever crossed the 100% mark at the lowest price.

False. I bought a book for the grand price of $1.00. What matters is how much interest there is in a particular offering. Even an offering which has considerable interest can, however, be stymied by a price point which is set too high. If you bid low, when the resource finally reaches production cost in CP, you will still be notified that it will be closing and that either more need to bid in order to reduce the price or you will need to raise your bid. The important factor is to bid if you have any interest.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271242#Comment_271242

I have a very simple strategy that has worked quite well for me. I bid what the resource is worth to me and then forget about it until I get a delivery notice. I'm not lulled into spending money in order to get bargains; I have no regrets for the items I don't get ... that's simply money to go into resources more useful to me.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271245#Comment_271245

Myth #4

There is consensus on how Community Pricing works

see above.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271247#Comment_271247

alright back on track...

Myth #5

All of the current CP titles have always been on Community Pricing.

FALSE

Many of the titles you see and bid on today once were listed on the Pre-Pub list and seemed to have stalled completely. Around the time that the new (current) website came out, these titles found a new home on CP. Some have even made it into production!

i.e.

Morris Jastrow Near Eastern Studies Collection (5 vols.)
The History of the English Baptists (4 vols.)
Christ Alone Exalted: The Complete Works of Tobias Crisp (2 vols.)
and others...

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271218#Comment_271218

I was hoping some controversial myths would pop up.

You want controversy? [6]

Myth #6: "You will never get a book cheaper than from Community Pricing"

Try this Myth-Buster factoid: There have been a few times where books were cheaper than community pricing levels. The obvious one, the 2010 Christmas Master Collection was as cheap as a dollar a book. That may be the "once-in-a-lifetime," "never-to-be-repeated" deal, but it did beat the CP prices. The other times were the "freebie giveaways" like:

June 2008 How to Write: A Handbook Based on the English Bible $12.95 Free
August 2008 Matthew, Mark Cornerstone Biblical Commentary $39.99 Free
October 2008 A Treatise Concerning Religious Affections $2.95 Free
May 2009 Money Matters: Answers to Your Financial Questions $19.99 Free
September 2009 Finally Alive $14.99 Free
October 2009 MacArthur Bible Studies: Romans $7.99 Free
December 2009 A Christmas Carol $4.95 $.95
September 2010 FREE Logos T-shirts! did I mention they were FREE? [:D]
January 2011 Memoir and Remains of the Rev. Robert Murray McCheyne $24.95 Free

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271242#Comment_271242

No book has ever crossed the 100% mark at the lowest price.

False. I bought a book for the grand price of $1.00.

That was The Antithesis between Symbolism and Revelation by Abraham Kuyper (November 2010) ~ now selling for $11.95.

The $1 Community Pricing bid was indeed the lowest increment on the graph. If I remember correctly, that title was the fastest moving graduate from the CP program.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271245#Comment_271245

lulled into spending money in order to get bargains

Myth #7 You will read every bargain you get.

Richard Wardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271264#Comment_271264

lulled into spending money in order to get bargains

Myth #7 You will read every bargain you get.

Myth #8 You need every bargain you get.

DMB

Myth #9

Your beliefs in the Divine and the expectations of good behavior can overcome your reaction, when you find out later that your $199 collection you just bought, used to be on Community Pricing for $10 where everyone else bought it.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271286#Comment_271286

Myth #9

Your beliefs in the Divine and the expectations of good behavior can overcome your reaction, when you find out later that your $199 collection you just bought, used to be on Community Pricing for $10 where everyone else bought it.

(The more times I read that, the funnier it gets. Of course as long as it doesn't happen to me!)

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271265#Comment_271265

[Y] Logos isn't built for reading, its for studying. Hence, although I probably won't read them all, I certainly need them all for reference. Grandpa used to say, "Boy, quit using that as a hammer! It's a left-handed bizcuibitz and I may only need it once every 5 years.... but when I DO need it, nothing else will do."

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271245#Comment_271245

I have a very simple strategy that has worked quite well for me. I bid what the resource is worth to me and then forget about it until I get a delivery notice. I'm not lulled into spending money in order to get bargains; I have no regrets for the items I don't get ... that's simply money to go into resources more useful to me.

MJ's strategy has been my strategy as well, and it has worked well for me.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271308#Comment_271308

I have a very simple strategy that has worked quite well for me. I bid what the resource is worth to me and then forget about it until I get a delivery notice. I'm not lulled into spending money in order to get bargains; I have no regrets for the items I don't get ... that's simply money to go into resources more useful to me.

MJ's strategy has been my strategy as well, and it has worked well for me.

My strategy too. No regrets with things that went into production above my maximum.

I always bid the maximum I would spend on that resource. If it comes in over that, and I miss out, I'm fine with it.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271315#Comment_271315

I'd agree with buying relative to value.

But I think more, as the name impies (Community Pricing), there is a place for helping others afford the resources they need.

Sitting back and shrugging ones shoulders ignores the needs of others, when a small amount can help them a lot.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271320#Comment_271320

Sitting back and shrugging ones shoulders ignores the needs of others, when a small amount can help them a lot.

Help me understand your point here. I'm not sure I follow.

Graham Owen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271218#Comment_271218

Graham, what happens when we don't know if its a myth or not???

Add it anyway!!!

Graham Owen

Myth #10

If the project closes at a value higher than my bid I have to buy at the higher price.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271324#Comment_271324

Richard, I'm sure periodically you buy a meal for the folks behind you in line at a fast-food restaurant. Or when someone didn't bring enough change to the grocery store, you slide some money over for them.

When a Community Pricing resource is right on the edge and clearly a lot of folks really would value it ... what's your reactioin?

I'm sure it'd be the same as mine, right?

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271339#Comment_271339

Richard, I'm sure periodically you buy a meal for the folks behind you in line at a fast-food restaurant. Or when someone didn't bring enough change to the grocery store, you slide some money over for them.

When a Community Pricing resource is right on the edge and clearly a lot of folks really would value it ... what's your reactioin?

I'm sure it'd be the same as mine, right?

I know this was a response to Rich, but DMB, what you shared made me think of the Thomas Cranmer community pricing title. One of the users really, really wanted it and I think it went over the top rather quickly because he was so passionate and that carried over to prompt "the community" to help out a fellow user. So, I got it for $30 and now it is on pre-pub for about $140. I know a famous lady wrote a book called "It Takes a Village"; I didn't buy it or read it but I do love the title. For some of these titles, it takes a group willing to help out someone in need.

Alex Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271349#Comment_271349

I think logic is mything in some of these posts.

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271315#Comment_271315

I have a very simple strategy that has worked quite well for me. I bid what the resource is worth to me and then forget about it until I get a delivery notice. I'm not lulled into spending money in order to get bargains; I have no regrets for the items I don't get ... that's simply money to go into resources more useful to me.

MJ's strategy has been my strategy as well, and it has worked well for me.

My strategy too. No regrets with things that went into production above my maximum.

I always bid the maximum I would spend on that resource. If it comes in over that, and I miss out, I'm fine with it.

I understand the logic.

Consider this, using the current CP item Dictionary of the Apostolic Church:

If your maximum bid was $8 and the projected price was $10, and many others followed the same logic, you and the others at $8 will probably never get the item.

But, if all who bid $8, instead bid $10, everyone would probably get if for the $8 price.

If it never dropped to the $8 price by the end of bidding, you are always have the option to cancel at any time up to the release date..

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271362#Comment_271362

Consider this, using the current CP item Dictionary of the Apostolic Church:

If your maximum bid was $8 and the projected price was $10, and many others followed the same logic, you and the others at $8 will probably never get the item.

But, if all who bid $8, instead bid $10, everyone would probably get if for the $8 price.

If it never dropped to the $8 price by the end of bidding, you are always have the option to cancel at any time up to the release date..

But consider this, also using the current CP item Dictionary of the Apostolic Church: If you bid a maximum of $8 and the projected price was $10, when the item is successful at $10 you will get a notice that it will close on a date certain so that more will need to subscribe or you will need to raise your bid if you still want it. The ball is now in your court -- do you want it or not?

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271339#Comment_271339

Richard, I'm sure periodically you buy a meal for the folks behind you in line at a fast-food restaurant.

Nope. If they're at a fast food restaurant they either have enough money, or they're showing poor fiscal judgment. Fast food is convenience if not a luxury, not a need. For that reason, I rarely go to a fast food place anyway.

I do help folks who are hungry though, through our local food bank, and through connections with the local Love INC.

Or when someone didn't bring enough change to the grocery store, you slide some money over for them.

Sure. But I'm not going to give an account here of my benevolent giving.

When a Community Pricing resource is right on the edge and clearly a lot of folks really would value it ... what's your reactioin?

My reaction is, if I also want the book, I might bid as much as I can afford; but I don't see books as true needs 99.99% of the time. Books are helps. Having a book in Logos (rather than through a library) is a convenience, but not a necessity. Further, I have a limited budget too. I feel no guilt in not bidding on a book I know I don't want.

I also think it would be dishonest to bid on a book, if I knew I would never buy it.

If you've got disposable income to help someone get a book you neither need nor want, great! I don't.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271367#Comment_271367

George, in your example you get to have a last time to decided if you want to change to 10 or miss it at 8.

However if a group of folks that were at eight move up to 10, one of them may very well be the one that puts it over the top. The result is many times a bunch of others come on board only when they know something is going through and many times the item drops one or more price levesl. And everyone is happy.

Of course by not changing your bid you may have to wait along time for the product to get enough 10 dollar bids.

Depending on your desires you may want to rise your bid now so you can get the source published now, and at the same time see if you can drive the price down when other jump on board.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271370#Comment_271370

Of course by not changing your bid you may have to wait along time for the product to get enough 10 dollar bids.

If an offering is that close, it will succeed.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271367#Comment_271367

Richard, I kind of have to smile at your answer.

And yes, there will always be disposable income to help others, no matter what.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271375#Comment_271375

George, I never implied it would not succeed, but those that understand the system can help determine when it will succeed.

For example there are times when I want something delayed as long as possible, those times I would not raise my bid, in fact I have lowered my bid several times to try and slow things down. One thing that I have noticed is once a bid goes over the mark, in most cases it has the dog pile effect and everyone jumps on, but some times it takes weeks or months for those last few bids to get you there, and if I am hoping to delay the product until I get more money I change my vote if I was at or above the going price.

There are other times I want the product and have the money and I will gladly raise my bid one or somethimes two spots to help get the product into production and many times one it goes over the production line it drops down to the price I wanted to pay for it too!