Sermon File Addin?
What is the status of the Sermon file addin to be released the second quarter 2011?
Comments
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Dr. Reaves -
On the "missing features" page, it says that the Sermon File will be "re-designed; partially replaced by the forthcoming Personal Book Builder, supplemented by a to-be-released web site." The PBB is currently in Beta, and should be released very soon! I apologize, I do not know about the current plans for the "to-be-released website."
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Now that PBB is here how does one add sermons to the previously built sermon file?
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James Paton said:
Now that PBB is here how does one add sermons to the previously built sermon file?
For such a simple question, the answer is surprisingly multi-faceted. Apologies in advance.
- If the "previously built sermon file" is in .docx (MS Word) format, then you need to decide whether you are going to build a single book of sermons, or a new book for each sermon. I highly recommend a single book, properly tagged and with milestones so that it is searchable within L4, Vs. the one-PBB-Book-Per-Sermon approach. So! You'd simply markup the sermon within Word, then within L4 click Tools --> Personal Books --> Add Books (I recommend reading the "How-To" first before clicking on "Add Books")
- If the sermon file you refer to is in L3 format, then hopefully you still have the source Word file, and you can follow the sketched procedure above.
No matter what, you have some roll-up-your-sleeves-work ahead of you. Both the forums and the wiki have a ton of posts about how to do it from scratch. Specifically, I think you'll find this article helpful: http://wiki.logos.com/compare.aspx?id=911a9d13-acb5-4d46-81f7-d4450fea1ab4&before=51&after=52
"I read dead people..."
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James Paton said:
Now that PBB is here how does one add sermons to the previously built sermon file?
In addition to Brother Mark's helpful comments you can add multiple .docx files to a PBB, so you can either add individual sermon Word files to a book or you could keep expanding a master sermon docx. I'll probably do the latter because after a while the list of sermons files used by the book would grow unwieldy.
Prov. 15:23
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Kevin Becker said:James Paton said:
Now that PBB is here how does one add sermons to the previously built sermon file?
In addition to Brother Mark's helpful comments you can add multiple .docx files to a PBB, so you can either add individual sermon Word files to a book or you could keep expanding a master sermon docx. I'll probably do the latter because after a while the list of sermons files used by the book would grow unwieldy.
[Y]
"I read dead people..."
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As far as I understand it, the sermon file (the compiled version) and the separate source files (with all the tags added) are in a Logos format, not .docx (my previous individual sermons were prepared in a .doc file but, having converted them to the Logos sermon file for compiling, I didn't bother keeping them - Logos had sold me a tool to manage them in a better way.
Now I know I can keep Logos 3 running just to maintain my sermon file but, surely, Logos can develop a utility that will be able to continue working with their own format of files.
Luckily, I still have the Access database I built to keep track of my sermons, talks - where used, when, etc. I've kept that going but hoping Logos 4 would be powerful enough to replace it. From the feedback on this forum, it looks like Access is going to be the way to go if I don't want to go back and do a lot of reworking of files. Software upgrades are supposed to add facilities, not take them away.
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You know that your L3 sermon file will transfer into L4 as a resource/ Just checking.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Yes, my current file is indexed and added to Logos 4 but I'd like to be able to continue adding sermons to it without having to go back into Logos 3. It would be like having to keep MS Office XP on my PC alongside MS Office 2010 in order to work on older documents.
And that's another issue - I have many of my sermons in Word on archive disks but, having tried the new book builder, it won't read them because they're .doc files (it only reads .docx). So I can't even build a new file without a lot of document converting.
Sorry Logos, a very dissatisfied customer. I used to regularly recommend Logos to colleagues but this latest version is, in my view, a step too far (not just this sermon file matter but numerous issues where it promises much but then delivers less). I've more or less given up on the iOS version and use Laridian's tools; I'm tempted to ditch Logos 4 and stick with Logos 3 - it means writing off a fair bit of investment but I think my time is worth more.
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Stephen Coles said:
And that's another issue - I have many of my sermons in Word on archive disks but, having tried the new book builder, it won't read them because they're .doc files (it only reads .docx). So I can't even build a new file without a lot of document converting.
Stephen -
.doc files are easy to convert to .docx in Word. Just open the document and do a "file:save as." Have you tried to do this and see what PBB does with the files?
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I know how to convert but why can Logos not have built a program that could read .doc as well as .docx? To me it's a sign of shoddy development - I feel like I've paid to be a beta tester.
At the moment, I'm not investing any more in Logos - I'll use Logos 3 and manage with it.
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Stephen Coles said:
why can Logos not have built a program that could read .doc as well as .docx?
Doc uses a binary file format that must be opened and parsed using secret information that Microsoft doesn't release. It is a closed file format. Other companies can (and have) attempt to reverse engineer the format, but it's never quite perfect and your output data has some risk of not being precisely what you put in since you're trying to pull it out of a closed box.
docx is an "open" XML format which basically means your text is wrapped in <tags /> which define what it should look like along with supporting descriptive documents which are all zipped together into a neat package with a *.docx extension. You can test this by opening any docx file in a file compression program. Plus the XML format is humanly readable and computer parseable. A "simple" XSLT sheet can convert your docx file into almost any other format which you have the specs for - including PB.
I may be an occasional opponent of the docx format's failings and inconsistencies but I'll readily concede it is vastly more user friendly than the (thankfully) deprecated doc format.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
If someone has tons of .DOC files to be converted, there are file converters on the internet, some free, some with nominal cost. Just Google "Word .DOC to .DOCX converter" or something similar and you'll see lots of them.
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Dominick Sela said:
If someone has tons of .DOC files to be converted, there are file converters on the internet, some free, some with nominal cost. Just Google "Word .DOC to .DOCX converter" or something similar and you'll see lots of them.
Interestingly enough I have a massive number of odt files I'm wanting to upconvert - but... why doesn't word have that feature? Hmm... Couldn't that be done with a macro?
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Stephen Coles said:
I know how to convert but why can Logos not have built a program that could read .doc as well as .docx? To me it's a sign of shoddy development - I feel like I've paid to be a beta tester.
Stephen -
I know that you are upset, and there is nothing I can do about that. However, to say that "it's a sign of shoddy development" is unfair. I am thrilled to have PBB. I own, but have never used the Sermon File Addin (I'm a Mac). Even if Logos intends to build a conversion tool, should I and others have to wait for them to develop that before I get to use PBB? Users have been clamoring for PBB, and generally people are happy.
Software technology is in a rapidly changing environment. It is not unusual at all for software companies to release a new product that is not fully backward compatible. Generally they do this because they believe the new product is better overall. This is the case with Logos. Of course, there will still be some users whose needs were better met with the old product. I hope that Logos is able to accommodate the SFA users (sooner, rather than later), but please don't denigrate the developers.
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Thomas Black said:
Hmm... Couldn't that be done with a macro?
Found a web page with Word macro tutorial for converting all doc files in one folder to docx
http://www.maxhire.net/robo/Projects/MaxHire%20Knowledge%20Base/Files_and_Documents/docx-doc.htm
Macro can be modified to include sub folders:
http://forums.techguy.org/business-applications/975642-word-macros-convert-files-docx.html
Keep Smiling [:)]
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alabama24 said:
Software technology is in a rapidly changing environment. It is not unusual at at for software companies to release a new product that is not fully backward compatible. Generally they do this because they believe the new product is better overall. This is the case with Logos. Of course, there will still be some users whose needs were better met with the old product. I hope that Logos is able to accommodate the SFA users (sooner, rather than later), but please don't denigrate the developers.
Although by most standards I'm a relative newbie to Logos (2004'ish), I've run software development projects since the 80's (so much for trotting out the obligatory credentials). Although it isn't an unusual practice to release a new product that isn't fully backward compatible, data should never be orphaned by a version upgrade (yeah, stated as a fact when its my own personal opinion. Apologies.) There is an entire segment of the industry devoted to data conversion, but the real sweet spot for any software company is to give away the conversion tool (or build in an interface for) that brings legacy data into the new system.
Like you, I'm really happy with PBB, and L4 is without a doubt a quantum leap from L3 (wow, yet another opinion!).... however, lots of us also agree that converting old personal books and sermon files into the new format would be worth a lot.
"I read dead people..."
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Brother Mark said:
Although it isn't an unusual practice to release a new product that isn't fully backward compatible, data should never be orphaned by a version upgrade (yeah, stated as a fact when its my own personal opinion. Apologies.)
I think that most of us with an IT background would agree that losing access to data when moving from one version of a program to the next is a practice that should be avoided.Personally I have managed to get from 3 to 4 with most of my data intact the notable issue being a few time lines. Whilst I had the sermon addin in Logos 3 I never really committed to it as my approach to sermon preparation means that I have material in Logos Notes, Mind Maps, Word, PowerPoint, Post Cards, Bible Margin, etc. Once things have settled down I will look at the new PBB and see if the benefits warrant a change to my eclectic approach to sermon preparation.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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And if there are macros or free apps to do the conversion, why could Logos not build them in?
Perhaps this is coming and the current PPB is to keep the hounds at bay but, if I remember correctly, the sermon addin was promised a year ago. As I said in my last posting, I'm shelving Logos 4 for the moment and go back to using Logos 3. I'll re-evaluate the position when I replace my PC (probably next year) and need to install software.
Thanks to all who have responded...
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I realise this has been done to death, however, experiencing the bad providence of buying 'Sermon Addin File' just prior to L4 release and since then waiting more or less patiently, does anyone know (Logos staff?) when it will actually arrive? The 'features coming soon' says second quarter 2011 (that has been moving every quarter for the last year or so) and it was last updated on March 15!
Thanks
Darren Middleton
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Darren Middleton said:
I realise this has been done to death, however, experiencing the bad providence of buying 'Sermon Addin File' just prior to L4 release and since then waiting more or less patiently, does anyone know (Logos staff?) when it will actually arrive? The 'features coming soon' says second quarter 2011 (that has been moving every quarter for the last year or so) and it was last updated on March 15!
Thanks
Darren Middleton
Dear Logos,
Let me preface this by saying I'm a huge fan and cheerleader for Logos. I've convinced friends, family, pastors, and classes to buy the product. That being said, I gotta say that communication with your valued customer base leaves something to be desired. The Sermon File Addin is one of the recurring examples of where a simple and informative update on the General forum would keep the user base informed and pacified as the hard working development team chases changing priorities, bug squashing, code reviews, etc, etc.
Just be more forthcoming and transparent. Really! We won't shoot the messenger, and everyone feels better about the product in general.
Love, One of the cheerleaders
"I read dead people..."
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Bob posted the following in May:
Bob Pritchett said:SermonFile is a harder problem, because we don't like the way we used to do it. People wanted to put too many too different documents into that system, so we're planning a completely different approach that's web oriented. (More http://books.logos.com with document uploading than 3.x SermonFile.) Part of SermonFile functionality will be taken over by a much better PBB tool, part by this new web solution, which is further out than Q2.
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If Logos 4 isn't going to allow us to easily convert a Logos 3 sermon file (not just to view it but to build onto it) I've already asked that Logos consider building in a converter to allow doc files to be uploaded if we're expected to rebuild sermon libraries in PPB. Another option would be to be able to compile from the individual sermon files to PPB.
As I've said already, I've ditched Logos 4 on my PC and gone back to Logos 3 as it does more of what I need. I still have Logos 4 on my iPad but the books I own but can't use there is making that less useful (no NIV and no Willie Barclay Daily Study Bible - I've bought both for use in Logos); NIV isn't a major problem as PocketBible gives me that but still an annoyance.
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Thanks Bradley,
I apprecaite you posting this quote, though I was hoping that someone from Logos might be able to indicate some sort of time frame. Reading Bob's quote "...further out than Q2" in Q3 and approaching Q4 does frame the reasonableness of the question though.
Thanks again.
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Darren Middleton said:
Thanks Bradley,
I apprecaite you posting this quote, though I was hoping that someone from Logos might be able to indicate some sort of time frame. Reading Bob's quote "...further out than Q2" in Q3 and approaching Q4 does frame the reasonableness of the question though.
Thanks again.
I've suggested that Logos start giving users weekly updates for projects under development.... Hmmmm, I wonder if converting the Suggestion to a Uservoice entry might make an impression...
"I read dead people..."
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As one who has hundreds of sermons (11 years worth) entered in the Sermon File addin resource, and who has tagged each one according to Scripture, topic, date, etc. I would really hope that re-entering all this will not be necessary.
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one of the advantages of SFA was ability to designate tags for illustrations and sermons. Can this be done with PB and how?
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:
one of the advantages of SFA was ability to designate tags for illustrations and sermons. Can this be done with PB and how?
Again, while we really have no idea how the SFL for L4 will work, there are ways to accomplish this somewhat imperfectly using the PB syntax for "headword" under "Syntax, Milestones" (see the wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Personal_Books)
For example....
[[@headword:joke]] a duck walks into a bar and says "ouch".
Perhaps not a perfect solution. As for me, I'm going to wait and see what Logos does with sermon file before I move in this direction or one like it.
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Leigh Johnson said:
the Sermon File addin resource, and who has tagged each one according to Scripture, topic, date, etc.
As Bob says, the software may have been a bit of a "kluge" but as far as each of those index were concerned, it worked!
To be able to search by Topic, date, scripture etc were THE key!
Regards, SteveF
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Thomas Black said:
I agree. Without those indices SFL will be much less useful to me.SteveF said:To be able to search by Topic, date, scripture etc were THE key!
I am eagerly waiting to see what is coming.[Y]
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Thomas Black said:
I agree. Without those indices SFL will be much less useful to me.SteveF said:To be able to search by Topic, date, scripture etc were THE key!
I am eagerly waiting to see what is coming.
Here too.
Yes the SFA was a bit of a kludge, but to make the PB (as is) work as the SFA would be just as much/more of a kludge. Without the indices, in L4, I may go back to Libronix, compile there and import them into L4 and keep the old format.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Without the indices, in L4, I may go back to Libronix, compile there and import them into L4 and keep the old format.
[Without any information coming out to avail my concerns] Richard, I too, have been concerned that this might be the only option.
Regards, SteveF
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I need to first say that I did not have SFA for Libronix but I've been looking forward to it since I purchased L4. I upgraded from Libronix to L4 because at that time SFA was I believed promised at some point in 2010. I'm sorry if I am wrong and my memory is failing me. As a programmer I am curious to see what SFA for L4 will become. I must admit that I am concerned about what is mentioned on the L4 missing features page. Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't SFA a promised feature? How is PBB plus a soon-to-be website a viable replacement? I struggle to see how an external website is a solution and a feature of L4. For me, I would really like the SFA to be a feature that is accessed within L4 and one that like many have mentioned has searchable indices. I do like PBB but not for my messages. I personally would have preferred SFA before PBB but I am thankful that we do now have PBB for L4. Also, please forgive me if this sounds like a complaint. I am still interested in seeing what Logos comes up with and I am praying that it will be a viable solution that will indeed become my sermon library.
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Scott Burke said:
I struggle to see how an external website is a solution and a feature of L4.
The sermon function in L3 had two functions - one with all the headings, references, delivery locations etc. that was on your machine and an upload function that put one's sermons on a website. "Sermons" on the web site contained everything from sermons to orders of worship to three word tests (okay I made the word count up).
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I'm glad to see that others are as eager as I am for the updated Sermon function. The good news is that it appears to be here (or at least near).
I've only just noticed that there is a link to http://sermons.logos.com/ at the bottom of my passage guide (although according to the forums it's been there for nearly a year). I'm guessing that this is the long promised website. It is still in Beta and I can't find where to put data on when/where you've preached it (I assume that will be part of Logos, not the website), but it looks like you can access all of your past material and upload new sermons and illustrations there. That may help all of you who are having to input sermons in Libronix.
Thanks Logos, keep up the good work.
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MJ. Smith said:
"Sermons" on the web site contained everything from sermons to orders of worship to three word tests (okay I made the word count up).
A difficulty I found with the L3 Sermon File Addin was that it defaulted to uploading your file to the website. If you omitted to uncheck the box, the file got uploaded to the public website. I know that I inadvertently uploaded a half-worked set of notes when I was trying out the add-in, then couldn't find a way of removing it from the website.
Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5
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GregW said:
A difficulty I found with the L3 Sermon File Addin was that it defaulted to uploading your file to the website. If you omitted to uncheck the box, the file got uploaded to the public website. I know that I inadvertently uploaded a half-worked set of notes when I was trying out the add-in, then couldn't find a way of removing it from the website.
Boy do I ever recognize that one ... I did finally figure out how to delete them but it certainly wasn't obvious.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
The sermon function in L3 had two functions - one with all the headings, references, delivery locations etc. that was on your machine
Wonder about Personal Book(s) with sermon headings references, delivery locations, etc ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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MJ. Smith said:
The sermon function in L3 had two functions - one with all the headings, references, delivery locations etc. that was on your machine
Wonder about Personal Book(s) with sermon headings references, delivery locations, etc ?
Keep Smiling
I suspect that is along the lines that Logos is thinking so I would think it foolish to try to set something up before see what Logos has planned - we'd as likely make more work for ourselves as less.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thomas, that macro is for converting a batch of docx files into doc, not doc into docx.
The modified code for converting multiple doc to docx (which I have tested and it works OK, without opening them in compatibility mode) is:
Sub conv()
sPath = "C:\Users\John Duffy\Documents\temp\"
sFile = Dir(sPath & "*.doc")
While sFile <> ""
With Documents.Open(sPath & sFile)
.Convert
.SaveAs FileName:=sPath & sFile & "x", FileFormat:=wdFormatXMLDocument
.Close
End With
sFile = Dir
Wend
End SubNote: the temp folder is in My Documents instead of the root of C: which makes things easier. Modify the path to suit your own username etc.
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Thanks John, I'll put it to work or rather I'll try to. I couldn't get it to work for me - I'm not much for understanding code beyond HTML and CSS anymore.
So....
if I wanted to change that to convert from ODT to DOCX I'd use....
sFile = Dir(sPath & "*.odt")
...
.saveAs FileName:=sPath & Replace (sFile, "odt", "docx",....
Is that about it?
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Thomas, I edited the original post since the original code saved in docx but when opened it was in compatibility mode. So, after a bit of googleing on the topic, I added the .convert line.
I didn't need the replace function either, so ditched that for a more simple code to my understanding. But yes, that looks fine, but I'm no expert on VBA. But make sure you have the .convert line in there, as in the modified code above.
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Bump! No news is bad news I guess. At least we are closer to a solution than when I first asked.
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Further bump.
I echo most of the comments on here. Both that I really like what you've done with L4 for the most part, that Sermon File Addin was phenomenal, that tagging was vital, and that a bit more transparency about this upgrade process would have been very much appreciated.
I also liked to further edit my files after they were written when I spoke on a similar topic. I can still do some of that through 'Notes' but I much preferred the way L3 handled sermon file to anything else.
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Bump. Is there any chance, anyone from Logos can tell us what is happening with this? Heading into 2012 and still no news! Very frustrating.
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Darren Middleton said:
Bump. Is there any chance, anyone from Logos can tell us what is happening with this? Heading into 2012 and still no news! Very frustrating.
I'd like to hear too. [Y]
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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At the very least they need to update their "Features Coming Soon to Logos 4" page. 2nd quarter of 2011?!!! Come on Logos, get it done. Telling me I can still use L3 is insufficient.
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Brad Fry said:
At the very least they need to update their "Features Coming Soon to Logos 4" page. 2nd quarter of 2011?!!! Come on Logos, get it done. Telling me I can still use L3 is insufficient.
Tell it, brother! My patience is gone on this one.
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Feb 2012. Still no updates.
Can we please have an update, please.
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