Someone with Calvin 500 check a quote for me?

The following quote is ascribed to Calvin “I should not believe the gospel unless I was moved to do so by the authority of the Catholic Church.”

I suspect the the usage of this quote is out of context.... can someone check it for me? There is no footnote.....

I appreciate any help you can give..... Thanks

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Todd Phillips

That's a quote from Augustine, not Calvin.

"For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church."

--Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental. [Contra Epistolam Manichaei Quam Vacant Fundamenti.] A.D. 397.

Schaff, P. (1997). The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Vol. IV (131). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

(FYI, Google is often more helpful than Logos when sourcing quotes, especially when the quotes are translated with variable wording. It helped me in this case.)

MJ. Smith

In subsequent editions, Calvin broadens his affirmation of implicit
faith. In 1550, for example, Calvin again considers the Roman doctrine
of Scripture and the authority of the church. He proceeds to address
the locus classicus for the Catholic defense of ecclesiastical
authority: Augustine’s famous statement, “I would not have believed the
gospel, but for the authority of the Catholic Church.”[8]
As Calvin understands it, this passage had falsely become a pretext for
submerging the primacy of Scripture. However, it was not wrongly
applied to the doctrine of implicit faith. According to Calvin,
Catholic apologists have understood Augustine’s remark as an argument
for the authority of the church over the gospel. Calvin, however, does
not completely reject that allegedly Catholic doctrine. Instead, he
says that such an ecclesial authority is necessary, principally for
those who have not yet received spiritual illumination. While the faith
of the enlightened may rest upon a firmer basis, the unenlightened must
rest upon the testimony of the church. Calvin explains:

Saint Augustine does not want the faith of Christians to
be founded on the authority of the church, nor the certitude of the
gospel to depend upon it. But he means rather that an incredulous
person would not be assured of the gospel, or be disposed to come to
Jesus Christ, if he were not pushed by the authority of the church, by
which such persons most often come … He only meant to
indicate what we also confess as true: those who have not yet been
illumined by the Spirit of God are rendered teachable by reverence for
the church, so that they may persevere in learning faith in Christ from
the gospel (emphasis mine).[Inst. 1.7.3; CO 1: 295: “Non ergo illic docet Augustinus
fundamentum esse piorum fidem in ecclesiae autoritate, nec evangelii
certitudinem inde pendere intelligit; verum simpliciter nullam fore
evangelii certitudinem infidelibus, ut inde Christo lucrifiant, nici
ecclesiae consensus eos impellat … sed tantum ut indicaret quod nos
quoque verum fatemur, eos qui nondum spiritu Dei sunt illuminati
ecclesiae reverentia ad docilitatem induci, ut Christi fidem ex
evangelio discere sustineant.”]

Mike Tourangeau

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/277964#Comment_277964

That's a quote from Augustine, not Calvin.

"For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church."

--Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental. [Contra Epistolam Manichaei Quam Vacant Fundamenti.] A.D. 397.

Schaff, P. (1997). The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Vol. IV (131). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

(FYI, Google is often more helpful than Logos when sourcing quotes, especially when the quotes are translated with variable wording. It helped me in this case.)

Thank you both for your help. This quote looked "fishy" to me, like I said, It was ascribed to Calvin as "proof" that Calvin was a heretic......

In regards to Augustine 5.6 (linked above) I think I may have recently run into a situation similar to the hypothetical situation Augustine relates.

Correct me if I am reading Augustine wrong: I recently pointed out to a person who rejects all creeds and only holds to the scripture (with views that the creeds deny) that to affirm the scripture as 66 books is to accept the Churches authority to recognize (not give) the authority of the particular 66 books of the canon and reject say "The gospel of Judas."

This same church had recognized these views as heretical.... The principle is that the church is a lesser authority (though infallible) than the scripture, but an authority nevertheless, recognizing this "authority" would be the first step in getting them (or anybody) to get back to the truth of the scriptures.

In principle is this a modern day example of what Augustine is saying?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/278056#Comment_278056

In principle is this a modern day example of what Augustine is saying?

That would be a fair statement. You might be interested in a book I received today - too new to know if I recommend it or wish it was in Logos. It's by Christian Smith - The Bible Made Impossible. It addresses some of the underlying issues in your question.