I have tried searching around without success but does Logos have an English translation of the Didache readily available?
Search your library for Apostolic Fathers.
There are translations by Michael Holmes, Kirsopp Lake, Joseph Lightfoot etc.
Many thanks, I have the Lightfoot edition, goodness knows how or when but it is in my collection.
Lightfoot comes with Scholar's Silver and above.
Is this still the case, I cannot spot it in the current list.
Lightfoot comes with Scholar's Silver and above. Is this still the case, I cannot spot it in the current list.
Well, the product description of http://www.logos.com/product/3936/apostolic-fathers-in-greek-and-english claims so (use the "more" button on the list of packages where it is included, the view otherwise shows only up to SESB):
Note that the "Add to cart" button should be greyed out... However, I've not seen it on the list of Scholar's Silver, maybe that's because the 37-volume Early Church Fathers is included (I understand the Apostolic Fathers to be part of the first volume of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, but the text edition may be different).
It's annoying that the library just lists this as "Apostolic Fathers" and shows 0 hits if tried to filter for Didache. I now put them into the Tags field, to show up if I look into the library:
This is a great question Mike! I concur - I too cannot find it on the list. Lightfoot is in my platinum, but if I visit the website, it does not register as being a resource that I own. I wonder if this was something added to the KF package when they took the other things out?
Good spot on the "more" button, you learn a new thing every day.On checking my library I have all three versions and the Holmes version is not listed as being part of any base package and is not on my order list. Something odd (in a good way) is going on here.The Holmes translation is superb and a real find for me. This is a really interesting document with a really interesting view on the modes of Baptism and fascinating rules on how to separate freeloaders from men of God, I envisage spending a few weeks on this one.
Mike -
You have Holmes and you don't know how you got it? I wish I had that version!
Off topic: congrats, you crossed the 1000 postings border!
I must say that I am looking forward to:
http://www.logos.com/product/9933/the-didache
I must say that I am looking forward to: http://www.logos.com/product/9933/the-didache
Yes, that's on my pre-ordered list as well.
Since graduating from seminary, I have some free time on my hands [:)]
...I have all three versions and the Holmes version is not listed as being part of any base package and is not on my order list. ...
Likewise. I assume it was part of a collection I bought at some stage.
In addition to the other texts and translations mentioned, there is a commentary on the Didache in the Hermeneia series.
Niederwimmer, Kurt and Harold W. Attridge. The Didache : A Commentary. Hermeneia--a critical and historical commentary on the Bible. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1998.
It just dawned on me why I don't have Holmes. It is a Baker book, and it was many of the Baker books that were removed from some of the base packages this year. Bummer.
I have checked and can confirm that Holmes was lost in the change from LE to KF.
Hi Mike
Not "readily available", but the Didache will be included in my upcoming Apostolic Fathers Interlinear: http://bit.ly/ApFthInt
I'm on the home stretch (around 35 chapters of Hermas left).
The other recommendations have been great. Holmes' translation is the best available, but Lake and Lightfoot's both show their age as you read it (they sound more KJV-ish). Niederwimmer's commentary is OK, but it is a technical academic commentary and (IMO) gets bogged down in the question of source too much to be generally useful. O'Laughlin is probably better (haven't read it, though) because it looks like it is about what the text says, not about where the text came from. In print, Will Varner also has a good introduction ("The Way of the Didache").
I downloaded one from Kindle -- for 99 cents!
Hi Mike Not "readily available", but the Didache will be included in my upcoming Apostolic Fathers Interlinear: http://bit.ly/ApFthInt I'm on the home stretch (around 35 chapters of Hermas left).
Like all right minded people I have it on pre-order.
Many thanks for all the work that you are doing in this field.
Great news on Rick's AF interlinear!!! I feel like the ball is on the 8 yard line. (Football season is coming up, and of course only one team knows how to play .... located somewhat east of the Brazos).
And ALMOST as good news https://www.logos.com/product/7369/sahidic-coptic-new-testament-in-english is scheduled to come out in Sept!!!
Is life good or what?
Great news on Rick's AF interlinear!!! I feel like the ball is on the 8 yard line.
You might feel like the ball is on the 8 yard line, but I feel like I've slogged through 92 yards of tough defense. Should've done more conditioning in the off-season.
Thanks for the encouragement! (really!)
only one team knows how to play .... located somewhat east of the Brazos
You realize there are two NFL teams that fit that description? --- they both had the same record last season. Or do you speak of college (station)?
Like all left minded people, I haven't ordered it (and won't). Why? It's that little word "interlinear."
Rick ... I hope this isn't an impertinent comment, but I hope you include translation notes etc that you encountered along the way.
Last night, I was reading Clement I, and before I could even get much started I thought, 'wow, this is 1st Timothy chapter 2'. The sequence was the same, along with the flavor.
So this morning, I checked to see what the closest syntactical affinity for Clement I was. As it turns out the pastorals were not even remotely close. But Hebrews was far and away a close match ... three times as close as Barnabas. In theory, that give the writer an Alexandrian background.
Anyway we're all anticipating your success!
Todd ... Houston could never be truly regarded as a real football team (the alternative being a financial investment).
I hope no one's offended, everyone having their favorites. I did my growing up years following Tex Schramm (who by the way first hired Pete Rozelle for PR).
I checked to see what the closest syntactical affinity for Clement I was.
Denise how did you do this?
Dominick .... I did it the hard way (my own software). I first train each writing to be able to write itself (e.g. Clement and building a robust pattern that can re-write itself). Then I run each other writer (e.g. 1 Tim, Heb) through the 'Clement' pattern to see how well the 'Clement' pattern can 'write' the other writer (eg I Tim, Hebrews). If 'Clement' easily 'write' 1 Timothy, then in theory, there's some type of affinity (which could arise from common manuscript sources, copyists, writers, cultural background, etc). The technique is especially good where an interpolation is hypothesized.
Given Logos' sophistication with resource cross-referencing, I would hope pattern matching would appear at some point. It would certainly move Logos up a sizable notch. I just bought Sibelius 7 music software where the same principle is evident (I'm used to yanking the channels around and Sibelius says 'Dear Lady, calm down ... let me do that!.
Can anyone tell me why the Apostolic Fathers interlinear now on pre-pub is preferable to the Kirsopp Lake Apostolic Fathers (with Rick Brannan interlinear) I now have? Is it just the difference between the underlying LCL text and the Holmes text?
The Lake translation has a reverse interlinear, which means the English text is the base text and the Greek aligns with it.
The new one on prepub is a normal interlinear: the original Greek is the base text and the English glosses are aligned with it.
No, not like Indianapolis. Go Colts ! [:)]
George -
Without Manning the Colts are more like Ponies.
OK, Todd ... now I'm mystified! Lake as a reverse-interlinear?
Maybe my Lake is the cheapo (the interlinear is greek/morph-tags only; no english glosses in sight; the pre-pub would be a first and thus some of the significance).
Here's screen copies of mine: http://wiki.logos.com/Resource$3a_Apostolic_Fathers_–_Greek_Texts
The write-up for Lake does mention it seems to be the concise version.
OK, Todd ... now I'm mystified! Lake as a reverse-interlinear? Maybe my Lake is the cheapo (the interlinear is greek/morph-tags only; no english glosses in sight; the pre-pub would be a first and thus some of the significance).
Yeah, I don't know how to get it now. The Lake RevInt (found in Lake's AF in English) was a part of Platinum until Logos removed the AF texts from Platinum when they moved from LE to KF. That was the only way to get the RevInt, as far as I know. My Lake Greek AF is the same as yours--interlinear with morph and lemma only.
Rick will have to tell us about it. I don't know if it was orphaned.
(Interesting note: the Lake AF product page still says that the Lake AF is available in Platinum and Portfolio, but the base package contents pages and comparison page don't list it anymore. Maybe Logos should fix that.)
Isn't that interesting! A reverse-interlinear Lake. You never know what diamonds are hidden in the Logosian closets.
And of course, presumably the Lake RI is lost forever? I wouldn't be surprised if Lake as an author makes a re-emergence, having considerably more guts than Ehrman. But maybe today's a different time and place.
And of course, presumably the Lake RI is lost forever?
FYI, Rick Brannan did the alignment in the RevInt, so I don't know why Logos isn't selling it. Seems odd.
Hi Denise
Not impertinent at all.
I include notes along the way, but nothing comprehensive. I also included relevant comments from material I consulted. For example, Lightfoot has a massive 5-volume that covers 1&2 Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp and the Martyrdom of Polycarp. These include commentary and an apparatus (among a trove of other things). I followed them as I went for these books, and included things I felt relevant or helpful. For Barnabas I consulted Kraft's commentary and included a few notes based on his presentation. On the epistle to Diognetus I referenced Meecham's critical edition (which contains commentary as well as a translation). For Hermas I sometimes refer to Osiek's commentary, but Hermas is so big and relatively straightforward, the translation isn't the problem, so I don't include too many notes. I'd say Clement and Ignatius do have a decent amount of notes. At present count, there are nearly 1400 notes in the interlinear (this includes cross-references, informational notes, translation notes, lexical notes and some text-critical notes). There will be a bibliography in the interlinear that contains the necessary bibliographic material for these volumes.
You're right about Clement and Hebrews. So right, in fact, that some have actually supposed that Clement authored that epistle. (For the record, I don't think Clement authored Hebrews).
Would be interested to hear more about how your software works. Feel free to contact me offline if you'd like -- my first name at logos dot com does the trick.
Todd ... I updated the Wiki page with your info. Will expand it if Rick has more information. The mystery thickens.
Thank you Rick! Your product is sounding better and better. Will put a few examples together and forward to you for your curiosity.
We hope you can fill us in on your Lake reverse-interlinear. I'd really like to get that one too.
I did do the reverse interlinear for Lake's edition of the Apostolic Fathers. But I'm on the data side of things here and can't offer much insight into why something is or isn't included in a particular package. I've already forwarded the question on to the folks who are better able to answer it.
Your product is sounding better and better.
Thanks! Hope it lives up to expectations.
I traveled down this road of thought myself...Rick, I believe you were present on Twitter for that discussion!
I actually did not release we had the reverse-interlinear for Lake. I learn something new every day!
Hi Brad
As was already pointed out, one (the one you mention) is a reverse interlinear; the item on prepub is a "traditional" interlinear.
I use Lake's edition in the interlinear on pre-pub; Holmes (through an astounding amount of text-critical work) has his own text. If you're only interested in the Greek text, Holmes is better.
The primary difference, though is that the interlinear contains two levels of glosses in English (no other Greek editions of the Apostolic Fathers in Logos have embedded glosses; and the Louw-Nida annotations are not available anywhere else either). The first level gloss is a lexical gloss, which is much like what you might find in a Greek-English lexicon. The second level is an in-context translation. It is possible to assemble the in-context translation line (which has sequence numbers where needed) to produce a stilted/wooden translation. The other difference is that the interlinear has, where possible, each word tagged with the relevant Louw-Nida article. This allows searching by semantic domain and also searching of a domain in conjunction with the New Testament (when using a Louw-Nida annotated New Testament). Here's a sample with some lines revealed. http://bit.ly/ApFthInt for more information on the prepub.
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