Aramaic Bible Series - Liturgical Press - Collegeville MN
Does anyone have an opinion on this series or experience with it?
I don't see it available for any of the software publishers. Here's a listing from ChristianBook:
The whole area of 'Aramaic Bibles' is a tremendous morass of opinions and unsupported statements. Trying to find something that is reasonably dependable (translation/notes) is slow-going.
I notice the authors of this series are generally well-regarded, and also show up in the current Logos pre-pub: http://www.logos.com/product/10397/eerdmans-old-testament-history-collection
Any knowledge would be appreciated, before I plunk down about $500.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Comments
-
Denise Barnhart said:
Does anyone have an opinion on this series or experience with it?
I don't see it available for any of the software publishers. Here's a listing from ChristianBook:
The whole area of 'Aramaic Bibles' is a tremendous morass of opinions and unsupported statements. Trying to find something that is reasonably dependable (translation/notes) is slow-going.
I notice the authors of this series are generally well-regarded, and also show up in the current Logos pre-pub: http://www.logos.com/product/10397/eerdmans-old-testament-history-collection
Any knowledge would be appreciated, before I plunk down about $500.
I'm trying to figure out what it is that your question is about. From your link it appears that you are talking about the targumim, but they don't cost $500.00. Besides which, they couldn't be considered to be a "morass of opinions …" since they're original texts. I did run across a tremendous deal in the process.
http://www.logos.com/product/4654/hebrew-bible-bundle
Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), I have everything in the collection. If you have an interest in OT and don't have this, get it.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
George ... are we on the same page? (I may be mistaken.) I'm talking about english translations of the targumim; not the CAL etc. which of course I have.
Accordance has what appears to be their own in-house translation, but I'm primarily interested in detailed translation notes which I think the Aramaic Bible series has (but I'm not sure since I can't see any page examples).
My reference to the 'morass' is the frequent application on the internet claiming 'aramaic' for the syriac peshitta, effectively clouding the distinctions.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Denise Barnhart said:
George ... are we on the same page? (I may be mistaken.) I'm talking about english translations of the targumim; not the CAL etc. which of course I have.
Accordance has what appears to be their own in-house translation, but I'm primarily interested in detailed translation notes which I think the Aramaic Bible series has (but I'm not sure since I can't see any page examples).
My reference to the 'morass' is the frequent application on the internet claiming 'aramaic' for the syriac peshitta, effectively clouding the distinctions.
Does Logos have English translations of the targumim? I wasn't aware of that (at least I don't think I was -- perhaps very early onset Alzheimer's). Syriac is actually Aramaic -- a modern version. It's much like modern English compared to Chaucer. Of course, the script is different, but Hebrew changed from the paleo-Hebrew to the Aramaic square script so the change of script doesn't change the language. Time and usage, however, have changed from older Aramaic to Syriac.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
I've looked through a couple of volumes and seriously considered getting it on a subscription bases - but I couldn't justify the cost. It is a very reputable series by a very reputable company. I, too, was puzzled by your comment on morass and nearly bypassed the thread thinking you were talking Peshitta not Targumim.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Thank you, MJ and George (sorry for the confusion). LitPress.org had Pseudo-Jonathan/Genesis and two Ruth's both at 75% off for whatever reason. But ordered to see what they look like.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
The Liturgical Press has 2 of the targumim on sale for $16.25. You might want to check it out.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Denise,
I have a couple of volumes (though, currently, I can only seem to lay my hands on Targum Pseudo-Jonathon:Genesis).
It's a while since I referenced them (around 5 years ago) but I remember their utility for translation and interpretation.
I could scan in a page or so if that would be helpful.
0 -
Thank you, Damian ... I went ahead and ordered the two on sale to see what they look like, so a scan won't be needed. But I appreciate your offer.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
For those of you who haven't yet found out, there is now a Jewish suggestion at Logos' new Uservoice site for prepubs: Add more Jewish works. Please go add your votes. And then add the remainder of your votes to other suggestions -- preferably mine.
(There is also a new Uservoice site for CP's, with another ten new votes for you to spend: http://communitypricing.uservoice.com/forums/183260-general/filters/top. That too has a Jewish suggestion: Add more Jewish works to CP.)
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
This series is the academic standard for English translations of the Targumim. All the contributors are top Targum experts like Martin McNamara and Philip Alexander. They also have extensive notes/commentary on the text and volume introductions that are quite helpful. I've used a number of volumes in the series. There's really nothing else like it out there in terms of the level of scholarship on the Targumim.
We don't have this series in Logos yet but last I heard we were talking to Liturgical about the possibility of getting it. I don't know anything more definite though.
EDIT: I see now this is a resurrected very old thread, but I suppose users might be interested to know it's on our radar for things we'd like to get in our format.
0 -
Thanks, Doug! It's always hard to determine what's the academic standard, versus what is a group over on the side (McNamara gets pot-shotted quite a bit).
Following the thread entries above, I ended up getting maybe 15 of the volumes. Two are absolutely critical: Isaiah and Psalms.
I think of all my physical books and Logos books, two are my favorites. LitPress's Aramaic Bible, and my recent PB on Dorothy Day. I can sit hours just reading these. Sounds crazy, but both reflect a 'flailing' concerning the message God gives and applied in an everyday world of everyday people.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
I would buy this instantly!!!
0 -
Thanks, Doug. We always appreciate updates from Logos, regardless of how old the threads are. I hope you and Is both voted for my suggestion above.[:D]
Denise, if you finished that Dorothy Day PB, can you share it in the Files forum? (When did you decide to become Denise again?)
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
Would love to share Dorothy Day but she exceeded the upload limit. The question's been posed exactly 'what' is the upload limit from 2009 but no one seems to know. So that's where she stands. I still owe Tom a copy.
I have this really good quote. She's holed up in the rural mountains , full of poverty during the depression, and it's freezing cold. Her daughter is due, and she writes page after page about women's lives. Then out of the blue:
'"When I consider how we Christians exhibit our Christianity --making it appear that there's not a ha'porth of difference between Christians and anyone else--neither in our daily life and behaviour nor in our political and economic theory--when I consider this, I say, I don't see how we can expect to convert the world. Perhaps we don't expect to; we are quite comfortable with our manners and customs....'
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Oddly the zip (MS Explorer) is larger than the docx/cover or very nearly the same. I zipped anyway for convenience.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
I'm interested...but in all honesty, I will die never having read a targum if these guys can't get real and reassess their pricing structure. These insular university types price this stuff as if they have only one audience--a narrow and small audience who are obliged to cough up the absurd asking prices for this stuff (usually at university expense) because the only ones they expect who will buy it are the other two dozen specialists like them scattered around the world and a few hundred seminaries. Of such short-sighted miscalculation is self-fulfilling prophecy made.
SLASH the prices...and I do mean slash...and they will be able to triple or quadruple their sales in a heart beat. Cling to "how it's always been done" and they can enjoy their status quo.and relative obscurity forever.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
David Paul said:
SLASH the prices...and I do mean slash..
Actually, that's exactly what Liturgical Press does with that series. The regular prices are horrible, but there's usually one or two volumes on sale, and those sale prices really are slashed. This slashed:
I'm hoping Logos will negotiate a contract where all volumes have prices that slashed.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
That is quite encouraging. Thanks for your reply.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
I certainly like low prices. But for Aramaic Bible, I think I ended up with an average per-volume price of around $38, which I thought was very reasonable.
Also, the volume notes tend to overlap (e.g. Pseudo-Jonathan vs Neofitti on Genesis). Since I like Neofitti, it's notes point back to differences with Pseudo-Jonathan, so unless one is a Targum-ite, you can get coverage without all the volumes.
Aramaic Bible's not a mass-market set; that's made obvious just googling it. My general impression, LitPress seems to under-price it (compared to other similar volumes). If you look at LitPress's catalog, it's not their normal offering.
One major problem, is that the volumes are somewhat addictive. If you're in John (gospel), it's inevitable you're going to have to have the targum Psalms. Then Job pops up, then a question in Judges (Former Prophets). Or how the targums handled an oddity in Numbers.
The targums are pretty unique; it's not clear their dating nor even authorship and the degree of usage. But the similarities to both the NT, and Talmud are striking and thus 'cultural logic'. Since they tended to insert explanations in-between the MT words, it's a running commentary of how they were trying to interpret the text.
I'm 'running on' here just to assist anyone not that familiar with 'what they're good for'. In one of the Genesis Targums, Abraham is concerned about being rewarded by God on earth, because it will reduce his rewards in heaven. To us, that sounds 'crazy'. But I really suspect we don't know what Apostle Paul's diatribes against 'works' really referred to ... the targums might indeed reflect a 1st century mindless accounting of this and that, earth vs 'the next life', etc. And 'James' might be a caution not to over-interpret Paul. Emphasis on 'might'. We don't know.
EDIT: I was just reminded about Jesus' promise 'Blessed are the poor ...' (Luke). I'd always wondered about Luke's poverty emphasis, and indeed 'if' palestinian jewish culture (vs Jerusalem) viewed a tradeoff on earth/heaven, then a rural crowd 'on the plain' would nod their heads in pleasant agreement.
Glad to see the mysterious message below.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Is, Denise, David, fgh... keep your eyes on the Pre-Pub page. Subscribe to our Pre-Pub mailing list to get updates on new Pre-Pubs we post. Don't be too hasty to buy these volumes elsewhere just yet. Wink wink, nudge nudge, cough cough.
[:O]
0 -
Brandon, a couple of quotes from posts I've made since New Year[:)]:
fgh said:What's also nice is that this is the second Liturgical Press title in a couple of weeks. That ought to mean that Sacra Pagina and Berit Olam are on the way. And the Aramaic Bible. And Jurgens, and Congar, and the Little Rock Catholic Study Bible, and a number of other things that have been asked for, often repeatedly.
fgh said:Hans said:Still don't see any progress on English Targums.
There's actually been a huge one very recently (though it may not be so obvious to non-Catholics): the clearly very much improved relationship between Logos and Liturgical Press, the publisher of the Aramaic Bible: The Targums. So far it's only had time to result in a few new prepubs, but hopefully we'll see Sacra Pagina, Berit Olam and the Aramaic Bible before the year is over.
So, yes, I already am keeping my eyes on the Prepub page.[:D] Berit Olam and Jurgens turned up last week. Now I'm waiting to see whether the Aramaic Bible will win over Sacra Pagina, or the other way around.[:P] I hope the dollar is on the way down and not up...
I prefer the RSS feed over the mailing lists, though. At least when I had them, the e-mails never arrived until long after I had already ordered what I wanted.
Denise said:In one of the Genesis Targums, Abraham is concerned about being rewarded by God on earth, because it will reduce his rewards in heaven. To us, that sounds 'crazy'.
I doubt it counts as defined dogma or anything, but it's a fairly common theme in Catholic spirituality and the writings of the saints.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
fgh said:
Now I'm waiting to see whether the Aramaic Bible will win over Sacra Pagina, or the other way around.
Sacra Pagina New Testament Commentary Series (18 vols.) won.[:)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
0 -
Sorry it took so long, guys. Here it is!
0 -
Brandon Rappuhn said:
Sorry it took so long, guys. Here it is!
Whew ! I think they emptied more than one salt box here. That's very pricey. They should break it up to make it cheaper to get into.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
George Somsel said:
Whew ! I think they emptied more than one salt box here. That's very pricey. They should break it up to make it cheaper to get into.
Under $32 per volume!! Good luck getting them cheaper than that!
0 -
Can we have a few preview pages before we spend $700?
0 -
Google books had a preview
0 -
Dean053 said:George Somsel said:
Whew ! I think they emptied more than one salt box here. That's very pricey. They should break it up to make it cheaper to get into.
Under $32 per volume!! Good luck getting them cheaper than that!
I didn't say they were charging an excessive amount. I said that the combined price was too high to be affordable at one time.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Thank you for the info...I would have missed this, and the introductory pre-pub price is the only way with this series...it is worth it,but even Gottingen LXX was less on pre-pub...so yeah...thanks for the heads up!!!
Brandon Rappuhn said:Is, Denise, David, fgh... keep your eyes on the Pre-Pub page. Subscribe to our Pre-Pub mailing list to get updates on new Pre-Pubs we post. Don't be too hasty to buy these volumes elsewhere just yet. Wink wink, nudge nudge, cough cough.
0 -
Since Logos also carries Gorgias Press titles, maybe the Antioch Bible would interest some, at least then the NT will one day be covered.
0
