decide for God - how to do a logos search?

I am wracking my brains about a group who have been coming to study the Bible, more recently we have been storying, for over 10 years, and with one possible exception none shows signs that suggest to me that he is a Believer. Though most of them would say they were. They give the right answers in the group, usually - but I then need to go and find out from their wives what they really think... They know the basic stuff: sin, sacrifice, Jesus' death for us and resurrection (about which they have some reservations).

I wonder whether the time has come to try yet again to challenge them to make up their minds for or against.

It needs to be story, and it needs to be simple, supersimple, as they so often misunderstand. This is not just my poor technique - the women and children find it much easier to understand.

Any ideas for suitable stories? The one that comes top mind is: Today I set before you life and death. Choose life!

And any advice how I can do a Logos search that will help me find Bible stories for decision, commitment, etc?

Yes, I know the ideal would be for a man to lead men. But when a much-loved and respected man used to come, word got back to me on the grapevine that they prefer me to lead the group as they feel freer to share without being afraid of making fools of themselves. So we continue. They now accept coming once a month (till I messed up the schedule by a trip to hospital after which I took over a month to get back a reasonable amount of strength and energy after a very minor op.....). They are committed to coming to the group. They are prepared to ignore people accusing them of betraying their religion. But I can't get across the idea of commitment to Jesus.

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Mike Binks

Hi Nicky,

I am sure that you know enough of the Bible to find a suitable story. The Moses example you give is a good start, or the rich young ruler who turned away, or even the rebelious tenants that killed the landlords Son.

I have no really understanding of your position and situation but when I read phrases like 'They are prepared to ignore people accusing them of betraying their religion.' I wonder how much commitment you want.

I am a great believer in persuasion rather than coercion - so I would avoid putting a gun to anybodies head and demanding that they decide now. But mine was not a Damascus Road conversion more a friendship that developed into love.

An alternative might be to get them to place a little trust in Jesus and then learn how that trust can and should grow over time - until, almost without noticing it - you trust completely.

Hope this is a positive comment - I saw many had looked but none had respond as yet.

MJ. Smith

Nicky - you're making me wrack my brain as well. About a month ago I saw a book in a used book store that classified Bible stories by "topic" much in the way you are asking. Unfortunately I remember neither author or title ... but I am going back to the same shop tomorrow to meet someone for coffee. I'll check what it suggests.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/285597#Comment_285597

Thought about a couple Logos searches:

parable Jesus Islam ( one search result was in Small Group Idea Book => logosres:sgidea;art=ch4;off=1 )

Saul NEAR Damascus NEAR conversion

along with questions: What happened ? or What does this parable mean ?

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dave Hooton

I wonder whether the time has come to try yet again to challenge them to make up their minds for or against.

This is a difficult situation with people who don't know that they need to be saved because they think they are, and who are likely to reject your position e.g. I went to church as a child and taught in Sunday School, so what else do I need? I believe in the power of Prayer for each person and the ability of my God to say or bring an appropriate message (through me) from the bible each time we meet. Then it is up to them individually to make a decision; leave their state as a matter between God and themselves.

Alan Macgregor

Nicky

It's a not too uncommon problem in the Church of Scotland where we often have a whole spectrum of people. My soundbite which I repeat often for my folks is: It's not what you know, it's Who you know.

Being a Christian is not primarily about what you believe but whom you believe. The crucial thing is a relationship with Him – Jesus Christ. cf. John 14:6; 15:1-17, etc. What about a Bible study of the Upper Room discourse with the focus not on the doctrine but on relationships – personal knowledge of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit? (Carson's Pillar Commentary is excellent and is available in Logos)

Every blessing

Alan

Allen Browne

One approach might be to have them discuss what a disciple is.

Search the Synoptic gospels (particularly Matthew and Luke) for disciple. Turn off Match All Word Forms, so as to skip references to disciples. This should lead you to some passages where Jesus says what a disciple must be/do. Have them discuss why they think Jesus is so tough on those who want to be disciples. Then have them think about how that affects them.

If that approach is totally foreign to you, you might want to take a look at Scot McKnight's new book, The King Jesus Gospel, where he argues our task is to make disciples, not merely make decisions.

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/285718#Comment_285718

Thank you, everyone. I shall refer back to this thread.

The "more commitment" I want is: 1. Commitment to Jesus, not just to the group. Their increased commitment to the group is encouraging, but I have not yet succeeded in communicating to them that "it is not what you know, but who you know", and that we need to know God through Jesus and have a relationship with him. In fact local Opinion pays us the back-handed compliment of accusing anyone who comes to more than one or 2 Bible studies of "betraying their religion". If only more Believers took the power of the Bible more seriously! Interestingly, the men and boys who get baptised in Greece in order to get a work permit or whatever more easily are enot considered to have changed their religion!!

The other form of more commitment I long for is for those of them who recognise and respect Jesus as a Prophet to take his words and particularly his commands seriously and be prepared to change. I haven't seen much of that, except that one very shy man who finds it very difficult to say no and who is terrified that his employers (they treat their employees like bonded labourers) would be fools enough to sack him if he ever declined to meet their demands to come in out of hours because someone else has not turned up to work, has begun to switch his mobile phone off before the meeting begins so that they can't find him and summon him to work till we have finished! Only God could have worked that change in him!

After much hard prayer, I have decided on the first part of the Nicodemus story. Nicodemus, like our men, recognised Jesus as a teacher sent from God, but was thrown when Jesus told him he needed to be born again, by Water and the spirit, whatever water means here. I wouldn't encourage our men to c onsider baptism at the moment, particularly bearing in mind how widespread is the practice of getting baptised in Greece without either understanding or caring about the significance. It's now 3.50 p.m., Albanian time. The men are due to meet at 7.30. If anyone who reads this feels led to pray, I'm conscious that every prayer helps.

We've really had obstructions to the meetings that seem to be more than coincidence. Recently they have begun to be happy to commit themselves to meeting once a month, after going 18 months without meeting for various reasons. The August meeting didn't happen as that was the day I had my appendix out! Today, we have just heard that a relative in law of one of the men died today and will be buried tomorrow morning, in Tirana, 3 or 4 hours journey away. A whole group from the extended family will be going and they have not yet decided whether they will go tonight or early tomorrow morning. If he's here, he will come to the meeting, despite bereavement, which is actually a big commitment (to the group). If he's not here, he's happy for us to meet without him, as he often comes round to chat with me, so I can tell him the story then. This is also big of him. Next month I am away virtually all month, so we shan't be meeting, which is why I'm keen for us to meet today.

Further ideas for stories will continue to be welcome.

Allen, I had thought about Jesus' demands on his disciples. In fact today I told my neighbour how he didn't let the lad off the hook when he made the respectable request to be allowed to bury his father, and Jesus said: "Let the dead bury their dead!" I explained that the lad was probably asking to wait till his father had died before committing himself, and no way was it suggesting skipping funerals!

Once again, thank you, everyone. Keep the ideas coming!

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/285744#Comment_285744

Nicky,

I was browsing the forum this morning, knowing that I needed to "get to work" but felt like I had to keep browsing. This is the reason I was browsing. This prayer need hit me hard - I have sought for God's grace and wisdom on you and on these men.

Thank you for your obedience to Christ and above all for your love to these...

Onward to some thoughts as I consider the need to call people to commitment beyond knowledge.

Is not the thrust of the book of Hebrews "an irrevocable faith"? Yes there are other themes there, but surely embedded in the central and latter portions of the book is the call to become more than we were, and to stand resolutely for Christ regardless of this world's price.

What of 2 Peter 1:5-10 and what I've termed, "The stairway of discipleship". Add to your faith these things... If you don't you've forgotten you were cleansed and are effectively worthless, if you do than you will be effective for Christ. As far as stories, perhaps a self made parable which illustrates this idea.

Having prayed, I will pray again.

TCBlack

One more idea... the hall of faith in Hebrews 11. Note how many chose to live boldly for God! Note how at the start many did great things, shutting lion's mouths, etc. But note how others were punished for their faithfulness - being sawn in half, losing home and family, etc.

The conclusion is the same for all of them: the world was not worthy of them.

To tell the story of each one of these allusions and arrive at the conclusion of commitment is no stretch.

Nord Zootman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/285744#Comment_285744

Nicky,

I too am praying for you and these men today. May our Lord give you great wisdom and may He open their hearts to receive truth and salvation.

In Christ,

Nord

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/285794#Comment_285794

Thank you, Thomas and Nord and anyone else who supported us in prayer. I was happy with the way the meeting went. Everyone contributed, sharing their ideas and questions, and we had some good questions. I did something I don't often do, and told them what being born again had involved for me. I didn't obey the rule of keeping it down to 3 minutes, but they were listening hard. AT one stage I said the important question was whether they had accepted the new life Jesus offers them, and one of the men said: Good question! I didn't press him to answer. After we had finished and were drinking beer and eating watermelon, someone asked how Jesus' disciples had become Believers. I told them briefly about the fishermen, whose faith was as yet undeveloped but they had enough faith to leave their job and equipment and follow Jesus when he caLLED THEM. And then, in contrast, Saul's Damascus Road experience. I think we may continue by looking at how different people came to faith in different ways. Thank you for your prayers. I was happy with the way the conversation went, which I'm not always. I feel it's important that they share from where they are, but I sometimes wish they were somewhere else!

Nord Zootman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/285844#Comment_285844

You did your part with a faithful witness. We prayed, but we have to wait for the Holy Spirit to do His part as well! (And waiting for change has never been easy)