Why no interlinear in the HSBC Bible
Is there a way to connect an interlinear to the HSBC as well as an exegetical guide for it? I know it is based off of the Biblia Hebracia for the O.T. and N.A. 4 for the N.T. is there anyway to connect these in the pane as inline or interlinear?
Comments
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Bill -
First, welcome to the forums!
When you say the "HSBC", do you mean the "HCSB" (Holman Christian Standard Bible)? It is my understanding that Logos is working on an interlinear.
Bill Payne said:Is there a way to connect an interlinear
Either a Bible is an interlinear, or it is not. If the software knows what the underlying Greek word is for the English translation, it is by definition an interlinear. So unfortunately the answer is no - at least right now.
Bill Payne said:as well as an exegetical guide for it?
I assume you are wanting the "word by word" section, and again, that is dependent upon the interlinear, so no.
Once Logos makes the interlinear, these features would become available to you.
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alabama24 said:
It is my understanding that Logos is working on an interlinear.
I can't find this information. A reverse interlinear on the HCSB would be great! I was actually about to suggest this, but just came across this. HCSB is quickly shooting itself to the top of my preferred Bible list but not being able to access reverse interlinear data makes its use a bit more cumbersome in Logos.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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Jacob Hantla said:alabama24 said:
It is my understanding that Logos is working on an interlinear.
I can't find this information. A reverse interlinear on the HCSB would be great! I was actually about to suggest this, but just came across this. HCSB is quickly shooting itself to the top of my preferred Bible list but not being able to access reverse interlinear data makes its use a bit more cumbersome in Logos.
Nevermind, found Bob saying 2 years ago that one should be coming: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3770/31385.aspx#31385
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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Jacob Hantla said:
Nevermind, found Bob saying 2 years ago that one should be coming: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3770/31385.aspx#31385
Is it crazy to ask for an update every couple of years? [:)]
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I don't think we will see it until after the NIV is finished. Just a guess though.
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Being more of a word-for-word translation than the NIV it sure would be easier.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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I don't know about that. It's not like Logos can automate the process. Even with more "word-for-word" translations there isn't a one for one key.
On an interesting side note, Liberty will be holding a symposium next week. Three translators will be present representing three translations: ESV (Grudem), NIV (Moo), and HCSB (Clendenen).
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Question:
Why would there be a need for interlinear on each Bible? There aren't texts for each translation.
Since I do not have all the interlinears I don't know if they translate for that version or not; but really does not seem very practical. Maybe I am missing something?0 -
An reverse interlinear is a bible which has linked the english words with the underlying greek or hebrew words. Each translation would need its own separate RI or otherwise there would be no differences in the translations!
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Right. That I know. But, the Greek words are all the same, with a few exceptions, right? So, the interlinear interpretations will be translated as that translation/version translated it; not necessarily the actual meaning. Correct?
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Kind of, It all depends on the translation. For an example, the Greek text for the (N)KJV is very different than what is used by the NRSV and NET (which uses the NA27). The NIV uses a modified version of NA27. And let us not forget about the Hebrew text. This also varies depending when the translations used the MT or the LXX.LegendsOfBatman said:But, the Greek words are all the same, with a few exceptions, right?
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What you are missing is that these are reverse-interlinears. The Greek words appear in the order of the English translation not in the order of the original Greek. So Logos needs to link each Greek word to the English word of the translation.
This is the reverse of the problem with interlinears. In them, the Greek words appear in their natural order but the words of the English translation appear in the order of the Greek. Again, each word needs to be linked individually.
Unfortunately, this process can only partially be automated - it is a time-consuming, manual process.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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LegendsOfBatman said:
Right. That I know. But, the Greek words are all the same, with a few exceptions, right? So, the interlinear interpretations will be translated as that translation/version translated it; not necessarily the actual meaning. Correct?
As MJ stated, the greek/hebrew words will be in a completely different order translation by translation, which is what makes it a "reverse interlinear." The RI should use the underlying greek/hebrew text that each translation used.
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All this is not really relevant unless they're actually working on it. All the responses that I've seen thus far point to a "someday", not a "we're doing the work". I think I remember one post that said Logos would like to have RI for every english bible. So saying we might see it basically tells me that they're still prioritizing the work, not assigning the work.
Anyone from Logos care to stop speculation and give us an update?
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@MJ Smith.
Thanks. Pretty much what I figured; but, a little help doesn't hurt.@alabama
Heh, that would help. But, basically, each interlinear then translates it according to how the translation translated it? I get the different family of texts and all; just trying to fill in why we need interlinears for each translation. That answer is, Because each interlinear demonstrates how the translator(s) interpreted the text, and the reverse interlinear matches accordingly?0 -
LegendsOfBatman said:
@alabama
Heh, that would help. But, basically, each interlinear then translates it according to how the translation translated it? I get the different family of texts and all; just trying to fill in why we need interlinears for each translation. That answer is, Because each interlinear demonstrates how the translator(s) interpreted the text, and the reverse interlinear matches accordingly?A reverse interlinear is like this: Imagine the Greek source text. The Greek word order for each sentence will be completely different than the english, even in so called "literal" or "word for word" translations. What the reverse interlinear does is to "cut" out each word of the Greek and "paste" it under the English. The three screen shots below show: 1) The NASB Reverse Interlinear, 2) A "regular" Interlinear, and 3) The Greek Text.
You asked why a reverse interlinear is needed for each translation. The reason is that if someone is using a certain translation, i.e. the NASB, one can simply click on a word and discover 1) what the underlying Greek lemma is, 2) what the manuscript form of the lemma is, 3) morphological information about the word. A separate reverse interlinear is needed for every translation in which you want to use this feature.
If you look closely, you will notice little red numbers just under and to the right of each MSS word. That tells you the word order in the greek. Notice in the Reverse Interlinear the ENGLISH TRANSLATION word order is maintained. In a standard interlinear, the GREEK word order is maintained.
You asked if "each interlinear then translates it according to how the translation translated it?" The answer is "no." A reverse interlinear does NO translating. It nearly reflects the work of the original translators.
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