Are there any videos or detailed help on building a Handout (without using Passage Guide) ?
Not as far as I know, Steve.
Right now, the handouts interface is pretty limited.During the beta, we made noise about getting more control over what is included/excluded and so on. This resulted in some changes, but I think the Logos guys have been too busy working on other parts of the program to give handouts much TLC so far.
well...we'll just say there is a lack of love for the Handouts in there current incarnation. I'm not sure about any videos.
Handouts are not quite ready for Prime Time so I'd suggest you not waste your time. The information you can select from is often not what you'd want, and though you have some control over what you can choose and its order, the fact seems to be that you are going to get much that you want and not in very easy fashion. The app. is better now than when we were in the beta but still not worth your time. What I will do is create handouts using another program and copying and pasting what I want into that program.
I believe Bob stated that handouts were meant for people who just wanted something to handout when they met in small group without having to do much to produce them. I wouldn't even do that.
Thanks all
I agree, it is very limited on what can be entered or even changed. No way to bring maps from other books, cannot change the people diagrams, etc.
Thanks for the comments
Guess i'll stick with Word.
Have you tried Publisher? Much more flexibility.
Can't wait to be able to simply copy and paste some of the images into by handouts there.
Maybe, but Publisher is useless if you want to be able to distribute your creation electronically. (Unless, of course, you make it into a PDF).
And how does that make it a poor workaround for handouts in Logos 4.0?
Handouts are not quite ready for Prime Time so I'd suggest you not waste your time.
I'm feeling a bit of contrarianism coming on ... because they are not quite ready, isn't this when our input has the greatest chance for change? [I hold to the half-a-glass full theory of the world]
Maybe, but Publisher is useless if you want to be able to distribute your creation electronically. (Unless, of course, you make it into a PDF). And how does that make it a poor workaround for handouts in Logos 4.0?
Just that on an accessibility scale, I would think it would go...
1) More people have OpenOffice or Word (and probably have them already installed) and so more people will be able to open a word document.
2) The handout can be printed to a PDF and distributed without the recipients needing Logos.
3) There are no free viewers - as far as I know - for Publisher documents, and no opensource programs (as far as I know) can open them.
Regards,
Nigel
Just that on an accessibility scale, I would think it would go... 1) More people have OpenOffice or Word (and probably have them already installed) and so more people will be able to open a word document. 2) The handout can be printed to a PDF and distributed without the recipients needing Logos. 3) There are no free viewers - as far as I know - for Publisher documents, and no opensource programs (as far as I know) can open them.
Fair enough Nigel. When I need to electronically distribute Publisher I print to PDF - the same as I would have to do with Logos Handouts.
But, I will never produce a handout in Word or in OpenOffice. I simply do not have enough control over item placement nor, in Word at least, the ability to finetune line spacing, etc. Image manipulation in Publisher is also far superior to image manipulation in Word and this is integral to my production of handouts.
If I were looking for a tool to do what the handout function in Logos is trying to do, I would still go Publisher.
I believe that Serif (www.serif.com) produce a number of desktop publishing programs. I believe that their latest desktop publisher will even load .pdf documents and you can edit them from their.
The desktop publisher is called "Page Plus X4" - I have notused the latest versions.
Something to think about anyway especially if you don't want to use Microsofts packages or have to buy one of their Office programs just for a DT publisher.
For what it's worth, I agree with you about accuracy of placement. if I wanted to do something like this - especially something where I cared a lot about placement - I wouldn't use OOWriter or Word either. I'd use the OOImpress (the Powerpoint equivalent in OpenOffice). Set the slide size to A4 and off you go!
That's a good suggestion.
One could also try Scribus which is really the OO equivalent of Publisher. I've tried but I've been using MSPub for so long I can't change my way of thinking - the booklet creation functionality of MSPub is also far superior.
Ian's suggestion of a Serif product is a good one - I know that their SE version of PagePlus is free and the full version only $10 (much cheaper than Publisher)
Just for those who weren't in the beta...Bob P said flat out that Handouts weren't supposed to rival or replace a word processing program...they are a quick and dirty way to get a handout sheet.
He said that it didn't make sense to compete in the "word processing market" that they couldn't do it effectively nor at a reasonable cost.
One could also try Scribus which is really the OO equivalent of Publisher. I've tried but I've been using MSPub for so long I can't change my way of thinking - the booklet creation functionality of MSPub is also far superior. Ian's suggestion of a Serif product is a good one - I know that their SE version of PagePlus is free and the full version only $10 (much cheaper than Publisher)
Yeah, I've tried Scribus too, but it didn't rate highly on the usability scale as far as I was concerned - not intuitive enough.
Haven't heard of Serif before now.
Good point, Robert.
There's still the issue, though, of getting the handouts into a format in which we can do the tweaking etc that we want to do.
Hello everyone.
I can seem to only make a two page handout. Is that one of the current limitations or is there something I'm not doing correctly?
Thanks.
Colin+
Hi Colin.
I think you're supposed to be able to add more pages by clicking "Pages" on the top right corner. For me (SR5), it crashes the app though.
Hi Nigel,
On the top right are the options for "Pages" or "Sheets". When I click on them the preview changes (I see only one page if I click on Pages, and I see two pages if I click on Sheets.) There is more information to be printed in the Handout file than would fit on two sheets (be it in Booklet format or Sheet format--which should not be confused with "Sheets" mentioned earlier) but I can only get the first two pages to print. I need to manually delete the information on the first two pages and then print the next two (and so on I would guess) to get all the information printed.
Hi again Colin!
Hi Nigel, On the top right are the options for "Pages" or "Sheets". When I click on them the preview changes (I see only one page if I click on Pages, and I see two pages if I click on Sheets.) There is more information to be printed in the Handout file than would fit on two sheets (be it in Booklet format or Sheet format--which should not be confused with "Sheets" mentioned earlier) but I can only get the first two pages to print. I need to manually delete the information on the first two pages and then print the next two (and so on I would guess) to get all the information printed. Colin+
Glad it's working for you!
I guess all I can say, then, is hopefully the Logos guys will notice our discussion and make some improvements in this area. They've been really diligent about reading ALL the postings so far, and responsive so far, so I see no reason to doubt that this will happen.
I'm off to bed now.
Night!
I see the same problem...
I had 4 solid pages of info...and when I printed it...it was two, double column sheets...
Nigel,
Glad to see you liking the improvements. I noticed them as well, but the feature still seems to be a big "hit and miss" as far as I'm concerned. Love the concept....not yet sold on the execution. I can't wait till Logos nails this feature down....it will be really nice.
Look what happens when I log out for 24 hours... [;)]
Please simply reference the handout link in my sig for my take on what's wrong with handouts.
So much potential, so frustrating an execution.
It seems that my printer driver is messed up - trying to print from another app this morning caused a crash as well. Glad it's not actually a bug in Logos 4.
hmmm. i thought the handouts addition was great . . . until I found there wasn't much I could do with it and it sounds like it will pretty much stay that way. I was studying Rom 12:1-2 and up comes a full people tree with Jesus. Not exactly what I was expecting. I am not expecting publisher (yet!) but I would think we'd be able to put in just about any logos info/media we have for a handout. I had hopes this would be a cool and streamlined Logos version of Lessonmaker.
The handout feature, if done well, could add tremendous value to the Logos software. If the goal is saving us time--this feature, if made more malleable and easier to customize, could be a life saver. I hope they put some time into it soon.
This sums it up pretty well. Doesn't make it any less disappointing. Logos 4.0 promised to be a time-saver. The only way to save time with handouts is to do as you infer...don't use it.
The only way to save time with handouts is to do as you infer...don't use it.
I used them for the first time last week. They need a TON of tweaking, but I will be using them on a weekly basis. They save me time over a MS Word template.
I tried to use it for an upcoming youth lesson. Logos 4 crashed three times while going through the editing process to get relevant material into the handout. I finally just gave up and used word.
It seems to be an issue with the constant need of the application to update the view of what is in the handout and what can be browsed toward the left in the editing window. By the third or fourth time that I would add content to the browsing area it would crash while trying to refresh the handout or update the view of the new content.
I guessed that it could be a memory issue so I tried it again but this time I delete non-relevant content from the browser area as much as possible but it eventually crashed just the same.
7183.Logos4_0210_2010.log
Unfortunately I have Vista and with as much RAM as it can handle. I am not crashing but it's slow going. Planning to go back to XP Pro soon. I wonder how Logos will run on a 64bit system. Better check that out first.
The handouts app is more a matter of supplied content for me...and the clunkiness of the app when it comes to adding better content. It's much faster to use PageMaker or even Word to make a good handout.
But...I hold out for this because it's part of what sold me on Logos. I think it has great possibilities.
And while I'm on possibilities... Why can't the handouts be output to one PDF document instead of two one-sided docs?
It is not just the handouts that are problematic. Do a search on a word. Not a word study but a word. The results are great! But then all you can do is look at them. No ability to save into notes, verse lists, send to the handout, etc. ABSOLUTELY USELESS! What is the point? I could do all of this in L3 and now have none of it in L4. L4 is looking more and more like the VISTA of Bible software. A handout MUST be something I create by adding any and all content I desire from the software I spent a ton of money on. LOGOS ARE YOU LISTENING?
Peter, check out: http://www.logos.com/4/missingfeatures it seems many of the things that currently frustrate you about L4 are on the drawing board to add.
I am aware of the coming features. I just feel gypped. I payed for a functioning program and instead got a Beta that is a long way from being ready.
