Feeling overwhelmed and contemplating canceling the service

1. APA citations do not include page numbers of texts and are therefore worthless to me in my essays. Operator said it should work. It does not. Anyone have an answer?

2. When I type in my search parameters, I get soooo many results it is really overwhelming. For example, when typing in "definite atonement," I received hits for articles concerning "atonement," and articles/resources using the word "definite." I got thousands and thousands of hits, making it just overwhelming. Is there some way to fine-tune the searches?

3. Apparently there is no telephonic assistance available for the software. I need to use the software NOW while in school and I don't have weeks to spend figuring it out. It will either work for me as I need it now, or there is no point keeping this.

I was so excited when I learned of this software, but it just seems like it may not be the right time for me.

I'm bummed.

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JT (alabama24)

Christopher - First, welcome to the forums. Sorry you are having troubles. Before I try to answer your questions, let me say that I wish I had used Logos during my seminary career. It will take effort on your part to learn it, but it will be worth it. Only you, however, can judge how much time you have verses what you have been doing. You may need to put Logos aside to get a paper done.

In reference to bibliographic references, are you saying that when you export an APA citation, it does NOT have page numbers and you need them? Some books don't have page numbers (but I think most Logos ones do). I have an example bibliographic reference below which includes a page number.

As far as searching, it would help for you to read the wiki and watch some of the available video tutorials.

http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos

http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos#Search

http://www.logos4training.com/

Rich DeRuiter

1. APA citations do not include page numbers of texts and are therefore worthless to me in my essays. Operator said it should work. It does not. Anyone have an answer?

2. When I type in my search parameters, I get soooo many results it is really overwhelming. For example, when typing in "definite atonement," I received hits for articles concerning "atonement," and articles/resources using the word "definite." I got thousands and thousands of hits, making it just overwhelming. Is there some way to fine-tune the searches?

3. Apparently there is no telephonic assistance available for the software. I need to use the software NOW while in school and I don't have weeks to spend figuring it out. It will either work for me as I need it now, or there is no point keeping this.

I was so excited when I learned of this software, but it just seems like it may not be the right time for me.

I'm bummed.

Welcome to the forums, Christopher!

Okay, let's take your frustrations one at a time. I'm just a user, like you, but the star says I'm here to help when and how I can.

First, APA citations and page numbers. Logos does follow APA, if you select it. However, not all resources have page numbers. But don't worry...well...yet. Most citation styles do allow for citing from electronic books without page numbers. I'm not personally familiar with APA, but I know that Turabian has a section that deals with citing from electronic media, and doing so does not require page numbers. I suggest speaking with your professor about this and asking what the standard is for citing electronic editions of works that don't have page numbers. You're probably not the first person with the question.

Second, yes, Logos does yield a lot of results. To search for the phrase "definite atonement" be sure to put the phrase in quotes, just like you did here. If you don't you'll get results where both words occur within the same article. Not very helpful. Alternatively, you could search for definite NEAR atonement (notice that NEAR is in all caps). This would yield more results, of course, but would require that the two words be close to each other (I forget how close, at the moment). Also be sure that your search results are sorted by "Ranked." Mark Barnes has an excellent video on searching that you can watch here. The video covers searching both Scripture passages and the rest of your library.

You could further limit your search by creating collections of the kinds of works you want to search. There's a section on setting up collections in the wiki here. Don't be intimidated, it's really easier than you might think.

Third, I've not heard this before. But we have heard that Logos keeps costs down by directing customers here for answering non-technical questions about the software. Hopefully, we can be of some help.

If we have not helped you in some way, or if you have other questions, be sure to ask again. And let us know if anything we suggested worked, or didn't.

Dean J

I'm a relatively new user too - and I felt very similar to how you feel when I first signed up in July. I didn't want to watch endless videos and just wanted to be up and running. In the end I used Mark Barne's video to get functional, and now anytime I need further help I just ask on here. The videos aren't that long, and once you become operational with this software, it really is amazing. I'm very impressed with what it allows me to accomplish.

Christopher W. Dorman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299702#Comment_299702

Thank you for your prompt and very thoughtful response. I'll take a look at that video and see if that helps.

I really appreciate you getting back to me! I really want this to work for me, you know?

Christopher W. Dorman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299698#Comment_299698

Thanks very, very much for your response. It gives me hope to get such thoughtful responses to my questions.

I have blocked/copied text from three different sources and none of them had page numbers. While the bibliography citations are in the proper APA format, if I am using an "in-text" quotation I must have a page number. Without it, I cannot use the source. I will try a few others and see if there are page numbers.

I have watched several of the logos videos, and I did not find them especially helpful. I will keep trying, though, and if you don't mind I may e-mail you again if I get stuck.

Thank you!

spitzerpl

I was so excited when I learned of this software, but it just seems like it may not be the right time for me.

I'm bummed.

Here is my suggestion. You have 30 days for a full refund. Make this forum your one-stop-shop for answering questions for that length of time. You don't have to spend time hunting for an answer, just log on here, post your question, and we'll do a better, more intelligent job then Siri at getting you an answer. Well, if Thomas Black replies Siri might beat the answer...but....moving on. We may give you a link to the Wiki or a video, but you won't have to hunt for it. If after 30 days you don't feel it will work for you, call up Logos and get a refund.

Here's a couple ways to make your definite atonement search more profitable

1. search either definite WITHIN 1 word atonement, definite NEAR atonement, or as already suggested "definite atonement" with the quotes

2. Limit your search to just headings and large text. This will help you find articles that talk about definite atonement as a main topic rather then just some casual conversation that mentions definite atonement. to do this open a search window>do a basic search (sounds like you know how to do this given what you've already said)>in the string at the top where it says "search all text in entire library" click "all text" and under "Search Fields" select Large Text and Heading Text. If you need better instructions, please let me know.

3. Search only some of the books in your library. For instance you can search only your Theology books for "definite atonement". you do this by creating a collection. Click Tools>Collections. then make the top part look like the followingpicture

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299721#Comment_299721

I have blocked/copied text from three different sources and none of them had page numbers. While the bibliography citations are in the proper APA format, if I am using an "in-text" quotation I must have a page number. Without it, I cannot use the source. I will try a few others and see if there are page numbers.

That's too bad. Most institutions are up to speed on using electronic editions. Sorry to hear yours is not. Perhaps you could bring this up in a discussion (especially if your educational institution is promoting the use of Logos and/or Bible software in general).

If you give us the names of the resources you're looking at we could confirm that the resources indeed don't have page numbers. BTW, for some types of resources (Bible dictionaries & encyclopedias), citing the article name may be enough (again, check APA and with your institution).

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299722#Comment_299722

Peace to you, Christopher! (Great Name!) *smile* ...and... Always Joy in the Lord!

My Pastor called me yesterday morning, and he wanted to know how to get the page numbers in The Works of Luther, volume 26. He said, "They aren't there!"

I said I'd look; however there are some resources in Logos that do not have page numbers; but I thought Luther's Works did.

So I checked, then called him back. Turn on the Visual Filter, I said.

What's a Visual Filter? he said.

So, with phone in hand I directed him how to find and turn on pages in the Visual Filter.

So, Christopher, it is possible that some of the resources that you think do not have page numbers might indeed have them. *smile*

It's that pretty little three intertwined circles thingy.

Philippians 4:8

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299727#Comment_299727

oooppps! I apologise for my post. You wanted information for your "citing" of a selection of a resource.

A bit tired and dense this evening and should have read your post more carefully before I posted. Sorry! I thought I'd leave it there in case you as a new user had not yet discovered the Visual Filter.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299722#Comment_299722

Well, if Thomas Black replies Siri might beat the answer...but....moving on.

You only wrote that because you thought I was already in Haiti. LOL.

(Disclaimer: HH and I have been going at each other in fun for quite some time. I think it's fun - but I think he really means it. [:P])

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299731#Comment_299731

Well, if Thomas Black replies Siri might beat the answer...but....moving on.
You only wrote that because you thought I was already in Haiti. LOL.
(Disclaimer: HH and I have been going at each other in fun for quite some time. I think it's fun - but I think he really means it. )

And I thought I buried that comment deep enough in my comment to miss your notice. I am touched that you read my posts :-)

I mean absolutely none of it. If you see a post from Thomas pay attention...he's a Logos Wiz...

John Bass

Welcome Christopher.

I am not a master of the program but I have been using it a long time. I hope I can offer some help.

First, think of Logos as a research assistant. If you ask your "assistant" to pull what they can find about a topic, you may have loads of books to review and sort through. However, if you ask your assistant to look through your "systematic theology" books, the pile will be much smaller. Creating collections will enable you to narrow that search. Start your search inquiry. It will give you a huge group of hits. But once the search is done, there is a search string at the top of the window that will say something like "Search All Text in Entire Library for" ...definite atonement. I got 9561 hits in my library. Now if you select the "Entire Library" drop down (a very LITTLE inverted triangle at the end of the underline) it will give you a drop down list. The list will include Entire Library, Open Books, and Collections. If you choose a collection, you will restrict the volumes that your search will pull from. It still could be sizable hit list but you can review it pretty quickly. Hope that helps on the searching. The other suggestions will dovetail with mine and enable you even better search filters.

On another note...don't let the school notation requirements for your papers cause you to dump an awesome program. I do not work for Logos or get paid by them in any way. I am a pastor who got into this program just after seminary. How I wished I had it in school. For citations that don't work for the professor, consider them background material. Most of the works have page citations. You may want to check to see if the APA citation restrictions are school related or professor related. If the school has no issue with electronic citation you may have some room to press the professor to join get current (politely, of course). But remember, school will only be for a few years, after that...no one looks at your footnotes (usually). I have used a lot of Bible software programs. In my opinion, none are even close to what Logos offers. And the potential keeps growing.

Keep the excitement burning! The thrill of discovery and growth is what makes this program so valuable. I could never peruse the number of references in a reasonable time by hardbacks. The skill to learn is filtering and learning to scan the hits and focus on the most promising. God Bless and happy hunting.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299729#Comment_299729

Are you kidding Milford? I've been clicking on the resource to see what the page number is and manually adding it - you've just saved me from having to do that! Thanks!

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299775#Comment_299775

Peace, Dean!

Am most pleased to be helpful to a Brother in this multidimensional and very complicated universe our Loving Father has placed us in and guides us through His Holy Word! *smile* (Especially when I misread the original post.)

2 Samuel 22:2

NB.Mick

APA citations do not include page numbers of texts and are therefore worthless to me in my essays. Operator said it should work. It does not. Anyone have an answer?

Christopher,

others have already explained that Logos APA-style citations normally include page numbers and also, how you can see them on your screen. Since there really is a small number of resources without page numbers, the question comes up rather regularly here in the forum how to cite those. User Scott Mahle helpfully copied the relevant advice from the APA style guide in another thread ( http://community.logos.com/forums/t/40057.aspx ) not long ago:

If it helps, this is what APA suggests:

No page numbers
APA ordinarily requires page numbers for quotations, and it recommends them for summaries and paraphrases from long sources. When an electronic source lacks stable numbered pages, your citation should include information that will help readers locate the particular passage being cited. If the source has numbered paragraphs, use the paragraph number preceded by the abbreviation “para.”: (Hall, 2008, para. 5). If the source contains headings, cite the appropriate heading in parentheses; you may also indicate the paragraph under the heading that you are referring to, even if the paragraphs are not numbered.
Hoppin and Taveras (2004) pointed out that several other medications
were classified by the Drug Enforcement Administration as having the
“potential for abuse” (Weight-Loss Drugs section, para. 6).

So in case you picked resources that don't have page numbers or other indexing schemes (such a dictionary entries), follow APA's suggestion. Maybe you want to tell us which resources you tried to cite and how the citation looked like? This forum overflows with helpful advice and I'm sure you will receive help to any usage questions.

Mick

Christopher W. Dorman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/299726#Comment_299726

Hi, Richard. You were kind enough to offer help when I just got the software last Fall. You really helped, and while I am still not as proficient as I would like to be, Logos has become a real time saver and life saver.

I was trying to look up something particular in The Institutes. Specifically, I wanted to see what Calvin had to say about the fear of the Lord (Prov. 1:7, for example). However, I don't know how to do that search. Is this something you might be able to assist me with?

Thank you again.

Jesse Blevins

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/357824#Comment_357824

Check out learnlogos.com. There are some videos there just for students needing to learn the software. John Fallahee is a great teacher and the videos are five bucks each. Many of them contain hours of useful instructions.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/357824#Comment_357824

Christopher,

I'm not Richard and he certainly could answer this question, but here's one way you could do this:

Check this article on the wiki for more information on creating searches using Boolean operators and proximity operators: http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help as these might enable you to expand this search for less specific results (more hits and more to look through, but perhaps more articles of interest).

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/357824#Comment_357824

Christopher, Mark already gave you one very good answer. I'll only add this: if you have more of Calvin than just Calvin's Institutes, you could search within a collection of all of Calvin's works that you own:

You'd make a collection using the rule author:"John Calvin"), and then search within that collection:

This gives more hits than just searching in ICR.

Of course if you don't have Calvin's Commentaries, this won't help you much. But if you really want to know what he said about some topic or Scripture reference, you'll need to search there too... There isn't a volume specifically on Proverbs, though.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/357824#Comment_357824

Hi, Richard. You were kind enough to offer help when I just got the software last Fall. You really helped, and while I am still not as proficient as I would like to be, Logos has become a real time saver and life saver.

I was trying to look up something particular in The Institutes. Specifically, I wanted to see what Calvin had to say about the fear of the Lord (Prov. 1:7, for example). However, I don't know how to do that search. Is this something you might be able to assist me with?

Thank you again.

Looks like you got lots of great advice while I was away from my computer last evening, so I feel no need to add to what's been said, except to thank you for your kind words.