Inquiry Into the Usage of Baptizo
I can only speak for myself but I'm not going to spend $80 on books that one can get online elsewhere for free. It would be nice to have them searchable and in the Logos platform, and I would be willing to spend $20 for the privilege, but these are old, public domain works available elsewhere, and this just seems excessive. I realize work has to go into reformatting them, but we've had five times the number of volumes go on community pricing for $30.
Comments
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Dean - I can not speak definitively about this resource, but I assume that this was on community pricing and is now on pre-pub. In other words, you missed out.
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alabama24 said:
Dean - I can not speak definitively about this resource, but I assume that this was on community pricing and is now on pre-pub. In other words, you missed out.
Nope. it did not make an appearance on community pricing [;)]
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My main point is really unrelated to whether it went on community pricing or not - it's really that it seems (to me at least) to be a little excessive to be selling public domain, otherwise freely available (google, internet archive etc) books for the full price, since we aren't paying the copyright/publishers' fees that we would be paying for new books. I don't mind paying for a product otherwise free, as there are benefits to having it on logos (linked resources, searchability etc), but paying full price just seems excessive to my mind.
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Dean053 said:
My main point is really unrelated to whether it went on community pricing or not - it's really that it seems (to me at least) to be a little excessive to be selling public domain, otherwise freely available (google, internet archive etc) books for the full price, since we aren't paying the copyright/publishers' fees that we would be paying for new books. I don't mind paying for a product otherwise free, as there are benefits to having it on logos (linked resources, searchability etc), but paying full price just seems excessive to my mind.
The cost of a resource which is attributable to fees to authors or publishers is really only a small part of the cost of the resource. Whether a resource is public domain or still under copyright, the lion's share of the cost is due to the markup which is done by Logos in order to make it a fully functioning resource in Logos. If you simply wish to read the resource, get a PDF or check it out of the library.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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The nice thing for most of us is that they are not required textbooks. If we don't like the price, we don't have to buy.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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George Somsel said:Dean053 said:
My main point is really unrelated to whether it went on community pricing or not - it's really that it seems (to me at least) to be a little excessive to be selling public domain, otherwise freely available (google, internet archive etc) books for the full price, since we aren't paying the copyright/publishers' fees that we would be paying for new books. I don't mind paying for a product otherwise free, as there are benefits to having it on logos (linked resources, searchability etc), but paying full price just seems excessive to my mind.
The cost of a resource which is attributable to fees to authors or publishers is really only a small part of the cost of the resource. Whether a resource is public domain or still under copyright, the lion's share of the cost is due to the markup which is done by Logos in order to make it a fully functioning resource in Logos. If you simply wish to read the resource, get a PDF or check it out of the library.
Keep in mind too that Logos doesn't own Captcha like Google does to correct the many, many errors that OCR software makes when scanning a resource. That can means a resource has to be double keyed (typed by two different people) making the up-front cost potentially more on a Logos-produced public domain resource than a modern copyrighted work that has electronic source documents provided by a publisher.
Granted this is only one part of the equation but an important one.
Prov. 15:23
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Dean053 said:
My main point is really unrelated to whether it went on community pricing or not - it's really that it seems (to me at least) to be a little excessive to be selling public domain, otherwise freely available (google, internet archive etc) books for the full price, since we aren't paying the copyright/publishers' fees that we would be paying for new books. I don't mind paying for a product otherwise free, as there are benefits to having it on logos (linked resources, searchability etc), but paying full price just seems excessive to my mind.
Dean - I think the issue is one of scale. I know nothing about these books, and to be honest, probably have no use for them either. This is probably true for most Logos users. If it cost Logos $1,000 to produce the book, it would take one user paying $1,000 or ten users paying $100 just to recoup the cost to produce. With these public domain works, Logos uses community pricing to cover the production cost. They begin to earn money when people purchase the books at "pre-pub" or "regular" price.
You might argue: "why doesn't Logos keep the cost down to the community pricing level!" The answer is simple: No one would purchase the books at community pricing! Books would sit in the hopper collecting dust. I have purchased several books through community pricing because I knew that it would not be that cheap again (at least anytime soon).
Personally, I think that Logos should look to reduce the cost of many of these public domain works, but only after they have been out of community pricing for a time (even if a long time). Perhaps they will do so in the future.
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Dean053 said:
My main point is really unrelated to whether it went on community pricing or not - it's really that it seems (to me at least) to be a little excessive to be selling public domain, otherwise freely available (google, internet archive etc) books for the full price, since we aren't paying the copyright/publishers' fees that we would be paying for new books. I don't mind paying for a product otherwise free, as there are benefits to having it on logos (linked resources, searchability etc), but paying full price just seems excessive to my mind.
Sorry Dean053, my comments were not directed at you but was a gentle hint to alabama24; that the said public domain resource was never offered at community pricing but went straight to Pre-Pub.
I believe other posters have given you an insight into what goes into producing Logos books so i will not add more.
Regards
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alabama24 said:
You might argue: "why doesn't Logos keep the cost down to the community pricing level!" The answer is simple: No one would purchase the books at community pricing! Books would sit in the hopper collecting dust. I have purchased several books through community pricing because I knew that it would not be that cheap again (at least anytime soon).
Personally, I think that Logos should look to reduce the cost of many of these public domain works, but only after they have been out of community pricing for a time (even if a long time). Perhaps they will do so in the future.
Yes, I agree with your second point, and can understand the reasoning of the first, though, in agreement with your second point, it still seems to me that offering otherwise freely available books at full price does neither logos users nor logos' marketing much good. Perhaps locking the eventual price at a percentage of the community pricing price would fix the problem (50 or 100% for example).
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George Somsel said:
The cost of a resource which is attributable to fees to authors or publishers is really only a small part of the cost of the resource. Whether a resource is public domain or still under copyright, the lion's share of the cost is due to the markup which is done by Logos in order to make it a fully functioning resource in Logos. If you simply wish to read the resource, get a PDF or check it out of the library.
The publisher of a copyright book gets a huge chunk - it couldn't possibly be less than a quarter, and I would guess is closer to fifty percent. But as I have already pointed out, the community pricing shows that books can be produced much cheaper than full mark-up and still be profitable. Finally, I had already made the point that I can read it for free but would be willing to pay for the additional benefits of having it in Logos.
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Dean053 said:
Perhaps locking the eventual price at a percentage of the community pricing price would fix the problem (50 or 100% for example).
What kind of sense would that make? If we knew that the price would never rise above the Community Pricing cost or if we even knew that it would be lower, who in the world would be so stupid as to order it on Community Pricing?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Ted said:Dean053 said:
My main point is really unrelated to whether it went on community pricing or not - it's really that it seems (to me at least) to be a little excessive to be selling public domain, otherwise freely available (google, internet archive etc) books for the full price, since we aren't paying the copyright/publishers' fees that we would be paying for new books. I don't mind paying for a product otherwise free, as there are benefits to having it on logos (linked resources, searchability etc), but paying full price just seems excessive to my mind.
Sorry Dean053, my comments were not directed at you but was a gentle hint to alabama24; that the said public domain resource was never offered at community pricing but went straight to Pre-Pub.
I believe other posters have given you an insight into what goes into producing Logos books so i will not add more.
Regards
Not at all - I appreciated your input - I just didn't wanted to make sure that this didn't become about community pricing. Thanks.
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George Somsel said:Dean053 said:
Perhaps locking the eventual price at a percentage of the community pricing price would fix the problem (50 or 100% for example).
What kind of sense would that make? If we knew that the price would never rise above the Community Pricing cost or if we even knew that it would be lower, who in the world would be so stupid as to order it on Community Pricing?
50% or 100% increase on community pricing. I.e. a $30 dollar community pricing price being sold for $45 or $60.
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Dean053 said:George Somsel said:Dean053 said:
Perhaps locking the eventual price at a percentage of the community pricing price would fix the problem (50 or 100% for example).
What kind of sense would that make? If we knew that the price would never rise above the Community Pricing cost or if we even knew that it would be lower, who in the world would be so stupid as to order it on Community Pricing?
50% or 100% increase on community pricing. I.e. a $30 dollar community pricing price being sold for $45 or $60.
Emphasis added — that's better. There is a huge difference between 50% or 100% and a 50% or 100% increase (i.e. 150% to 200% of Community Pricing).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Ted said:
Nope. it did not make an appearance on community pricing
Thanks for clarifying this for me Ted. I wonder why it didn't go to community pricing?
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