John Piper sermon manuscript updates?
As part of the deal when purchasing the John Piper sermon Manuscript Library (http://www.logos.com/products/details/3392) it said that we would receive free updates with future sermons.
"you'll receive free updates of future Piper sermons. If your computer is connected to the internet you will be able to painlessly download these additional sermons in a matter of minutes"
I recognize that this won't be on a week-by-week basis, but the most recent sermon that I have is from April 20, 2008! I expected updates more often than this.
Since I'm running Logos4 I'm going to assume that I have the most recent version of the resource and respectfully ask that it be updated.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org
Comments
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And it's advertised on Piper's own site as "Free regular updates" http://www.desiringgod.org/Store/Software/ByTopic/All/724_The_John_Piper_Sermon_Manuscript_Library/
Any idea when these updates will occur?
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Sheesh Jacob, it's taken us hundreds of years to get some sermons into Logos....
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I would think january for the 2008 and all 2009 sermons would be acceptable. Maybe January every year would be good?Jacob Hantla said:I recognize that this won't be on a week-by-week basis, but the most recent sermon that I have is from April 20, 2008! I expected updates more often than this.
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Joe Miller said:
I would think january for the 2008 and all 2009 sermons would be acceptable. Maybe January every year would be good?Jacob Hantla said:I recognize that this won't be on a week-by-week basis, but the most recent sermon that I have is from April 20, 2008! I expected updates more often than this.
My assumption when I bought it (based on nothing but the word "regular") assumed that they would be about every 3-6 months (I hoped for more often). Every year certainly is regular, but probably not what people expect when they buy this. And we are well past a year.
I know they've had all kinds of busy-ness, and this thread is not intended to complain, but just to bring it to Logos' attnention.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Jacob,
I had just been wondering the same thing. Apr 20, 2008 is the most recent for me as well. I thought I remembered updates coming quicker earlier on but that has certainly tapered off.
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Chris, I think we've gotten one or two updates back in the early days right? I can't remember when it came out. But I'm hoping stuff like this does't die on the vine. My guess is that the text development department has just been a bit overworked with all of the prepubs & work on getting things ready for 4.0.
So hopefully soon.
-Jacob
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Bump. I was just wanting to see if we could hear from Logos on this and how often we can expect updates to resources where part of the purchase included regular updates.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Also bump... keen to know this myself. I think a yearly update would be good. Maybe we could get the MacArthur sermon library going too.
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I, too, was wondering about this. Seems like it should be at least semi-regular (6 months? 1 year?) to at least keep up somewhat with the steady stream of sermons that appear directly at desiringgod.org. Maybe they could get whoever's updating it there to also build the resource each time? [:D] (As far as I know, the main tagging is Scripture...)
the ancient art of shalom: thots on sustainable spirituality in san francisco - http://me.jasonkuo.com/thots
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Oh yeah, and with all your free time, can you sync each sermon to the audio saved on Desiring God so we can play it right out of Logos4?
That would be a nice touch, but I'd prefer more frequent updates over having that functionality.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
I'd love some feedback from Logos on how often we could expect regular updates. It's been more than a year and half since our last update on the Piper sermon manuscripts.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Reading a Piper sermon from 2001 as I study and noticed that the file still hasn't been updated.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
I volunteer my services to do whatever needs to be done to copy the text from DesiringGod.org, tag the resource, and get the updates to Logos to maintain an up-to-date resource. Logos, let me know.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
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Looking for some of his John sermons and even though I have the Piper sermons in Logos, I've had to go to desiringgod.org to get them. The problem was that all weekend I was away from a hotspot so I couldn't read the sermon I wanted utnil I got home. Not the end of the world, but having offline access to Piper's sermons was the reason I bought this.
Logos, please update the resource as promised. Also, a reply here to this thread would be greatly appreciated so I know that I have been heard. An ETA would be nice too.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Logos any word yet on when the update to Piper's sermons will occur?
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It's now been 2 years (on April 20th, so not quite yet) since the last update. Regular updates were promised. Logos, please give us a response on this, and please update the resource.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
With Piper taking a leave of absence (http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/2010/4555_John_Pipers_Upcoming_Leave/) on May 1 keeping it updated this year won't be hard. I guess I'm just more than a little disappointed that
1. I have to go to desiringgod.org when I purchased the resource for integration into my library,
2. Logos hasn't seemed to keep their side of the deal on this one.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
I don't even have the resource but I agree with Jacob that Logos should honor their advertising. I would be a bit disappointed as well.
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I'm considering purchasing this resource. But don't like the information (rather, lack of) in this thread. Have there been any recent updates to this library? If not, when is one expected? Answers please, Logos!
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Tim Bahula said:
I'm considering purchasing this resource. But don't like the information (rather, lack of) in this thread. Have there been any recent updates to this library? If not, when is one expected? Answers please, Logos!
I own the JP sermon collection and can confirm that there have been no updates since Jacob posted back in November 2009. It seems to me (examining the packaging) that there hasn't been an update since the product was released. I am confident someone will correct me if I am wrong on this.
I am hoping that Dr Piper's eight month break will provide opportunity to bring the resource up to date.
I should also add that despite the lack of updates it is a valuable resource. I do not regret purchasing it.
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The good news is that by the end of this week we plan to have new files. [H]
The bad news is—telling you that just spoiled our awesome surprise party! [:|]
One of the challenges of being active on the forums is the expectation level it creates—that we must or will respond to everything that is ever posted. This has been covered many times before (there are way too many posts to read them all, we are busy doing other things, some things are secret, sometimes we must be silent to protect confidential information, sometimes we are busy doing what was asked for, sometimes there are marketing surprises that we don't want to spoil...) We also have to balance carefully the time we spend doing what users are asking for with the time we spend "talking about" doing what they are asking for. [:)]
This particular issue falls into several categories, so let's use it as an example.
- The John Piper Sermon Manuscript Library is not a Logos product in the traditional sense of "Logos Bible Software" being the publisher. It is published by Desiring God Ministries.
- The promise of "free updates" is offered by Desiring God as a part of their product. As you can imagine, we want to protect our partners and not just off-handedly "pass the buck" we could have easily jumped into this thread right away and said "not our job-go complain to DGM" but that's not nice.
- They are busy with many other things. This one product they have in our format is an incredibly small piece of their ministry, so the amount of time they spend focused on it would naturally reflect that.
- We didn't want to ruin the surprise. We have been working on this for a while and we had everything planned to blog about it and release the update this week.
We really do read the forums and we are really responsive to our customers. Responsive in action, if not in reporting back our day to day workflow or internal secrets. When we saw the post the first time it was a reminder to get the ball rolling again with DGM and make sure there was an update in the works.
There needs to be a little mystery, and a little privacy... and we need to make sure we are spending more time doing the things you want done rather than just "talking about" doing them. Everyone has their own thoughts on where they'd like to see our available time spent. Some people want more action, some people want more communication about the action. We have to balance very carefully to make sure we satisfy the majority of our customers' communication desires, while still doing enough work to accomplish what we communicated we would do in the first place. [:D]
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Dan Pritchett said:
The good news is that by the end of this week we plan to have new files.
The bad news is—telling you that just spoiled our awesome surprise party!
That is excellent news!
It is already an excellent resource and no doubt we all look forward to the update.
Once again, thank you for all your hard work. It is greatly appreciated.
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Dan Pritchett said:
The promise of "free updates" is offered
by Desiring God as a part of their product. As you can imagine, we want
to protect our partners and not just off-handedly "pass the buck" we
could have easily jumped into this thread right away and said "not our
job-go complain to DGM" but that's not nice.Thanks for
the response, Dan. I don't think that telling us that DGM is responsible for the hold-up is "not nice". Seems like an appropriate response to me, since it helps to know that limited resources of a non-profit ministry are the reason for the delay.MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Thanks, Dan. I think the confusion was related to who is responsible for updating the resource. I have contacts at DG and will direct any further inquiries that way. Letting us know that DesiringGod is responsible for the updates wouldn't be passing the buck or being mean, just being helpful. Thanks for letting us know that.
There were no ruined surprises here; just communication. Thank you.
I'm looking forward to the update
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Dan Pritchett said:
The bad news is—telling you that just spoiled our awesome surprise party!
Sorry to revive the thread and thus spoil the surprise. Was just looking for some communication for the ongoing maintenance of this resource prior to purchasing.
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Dan Pritchett said:
We didn't want to ruin the surprise. We have been working on this for a while and we had everything planned to blog about it and release the update this week.
Dan,
Let me gripe a moment... there should be no surprise when a product receives its promised update.
Whether DG or Logos was responsible, the product is advertised by and sold through Logos. The last time I emailed Logos about this I was told to contact DG. This doesn't make sense since Logos advertised and sold the product. Logos had the agreement with DG, Logos had the responsibility on behalf of its customers to make sure DG delivered as promised. It sounds like you guys have done this, but responses over the last two years have not been helpful since responses have been, well, practically nonexistent. A few months of silence is understandable. Two years is not. And continuing to advertise regular updates even after months, a year, then two years of no updates, that's simply misleading. Logos has made mistakes in the advertising and upkeep of this product. That's fine, mistakes happen, it won't change my love for Logos. but it is aggravating that instead of seeing acknowledgement that users did not receive what was promised, Logos will be treating the update as a big surprise.
I love DG, I love Logos, and I love the Piper library. As Andy said, even if the product received no updates it would be a worthwhile purchase. But we were promised updates ("Free regular updates of future John Piper sermon manuscripts") yet have received no updates for over two years. I am grateful updates are coming, but please don't treat the announcement as though Logos is giving customers something more than they were already promised.
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It seems that the update has just downloaded.
It is not clear from the description and book cover (which reads 2000-2008), but the update takes us up to the tail end of 2009.
Thank you Logos and DG!
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Chris Roberts said:
This doesn't make sense since Logos advertised and sold the product.
On the other hand, if I made the purchase through Amazon would I be mad at Amazon or the publisher?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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L4 has just finished indexing and it seems that the information is not correct. It still reads 2000-2008, whereas it definitely covers up to 2009.
It is not a big deal, but I thought I would mention it.
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MJ. Smith said:
On the other hand, if I made the purchase through Amazon would I be mad at Amazon or the publisher?
Amazon is clearly selling products made by others. For Logos, such would be the exception. Also, through Amazon you usually can tell where a product originates (publisher, manufacturer, whatever), but nothing on the Piper manuscript page would lead one to any conclusion other than this is a Logos product. Sure, the sermons come from Piper, and thus DG, but just reading the product page, this looks like something Logos has put together and is maintaining.
And to look at electronic content, consider what happened when Amazon deleted some Kindle books. People got mad at Amazon. Amazon is allowing third parties to use their Kindle service, but people still recognize that Amazon remains responsible to their customers for those sales.
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Chris Roberts said:
but just reading the product page, this looks like something Logos has put together
I would say that this may be the root of the problem - that Logos should note when it is a 3rd part product.
Chris Roberts said:when Amazon deleted some Kindle books. People got mad at Amazon.
To me, this was a case where Amazon overstepped the bounds by acting as if it were the provider rather than the simply the seller. To my mind Logos is dimply the seller and it is a business / contract decision as to what role they play in upholding the third party's promises.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I would say that this may be the root of the problem - that Logos should note when it is a 3rd part product.
Something like that should do the trick. "This is a third-party product and Logos is not responsible for the contents. This product has been created and is maintained by Desiring God Ministries."
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Does anyone know if they plan on bringing back the awesome interface that we had in Logos 3 for the Piper Sermons?
Does Logos plan on bringing that back or is it already available and I just don't see it?
As an aside I really miss all of my homepages; IVP, AM Courseware, John Piper, etc. That is a feature I would love to see return.
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Any idea on when the Piper Sermons will be updated again? I just noticed that is has been updated through April 2010 for another platform:
http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/sermon-library-software-up-to-date-and-on-sale
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JH said:
Any idea on when the Piper Sermons will be updated again? I just noticed that is has been updated through April 2010 for another platform:
http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/sermon-library-software-up-to-date-and-on-sale
I've been wondering this myself. Was pleased when Logos released a Piper update back in May, but that update was still outdated, only containing sermons through June of 2009 while Piper did not take a break from preaching until April 2010. Almost a year of sermons are still not contained in the Logos resource which still is being advertised as having "Free regular updates of future John Piper sermon manuscripts".
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