Outdated and expensive
I am a long time user of Logos but as of late it appears to me that the product is outdated and too expensive. If I were to start over I do not believe I would make the investment in the product. My appeal is that the company will energize its efforts to become the state of the art leader that it once was. Am I wrong? Every week there is something that annoys me; like this morning the ICC commentary set at 1200 and the inability to highlight on my ipad are just typical examples. It use to be fun to scout out what was on Logos but today it is not worth the time and effort. Is this just me and am I being too critical?
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The only couple of things I would agree with is it is expensive and I also would like highlighting on ipad. However, you said "outdated"... I would completely disagree. I have 2 other Bible software programs and Logos blows them out of the water. I know Logos is working on updating their applications on all fronts constantly (lots of eggs in the basket). They will continue to be THE premium Bible software choice for the foreseeable future IMO. I don't agree with all things Logos... but the program can't be beat on the desk-top side of things.
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You are expressing our opinion and that is not a bad thing… It is a bit expensive but outdated is not something I would call it… If you are running it on an older computer it will go very slow, it has many built in advertisements on it's default home screen but these can all be turned off. If you are talking about out of print works being outdated. yes there are a lot of those and in particular if you don;t purchase them in community pricing they can seem exceptionally overpriced. Logos gets current books within a couple years of publication usually (and sometimes within weeks of physical publication), so you can hardly fault them for having less than current published works and usually at a completive price. I personally do not like the mobile APP choices made, i would have preferred to be able to sync on my computer any resources I own, not just ones they can getting permission to place in their Logos cloud. And on the mobile front I will say things seem to had stalled out, but that is basically because they are trying to get a second mobile platform up and running once Android is out of beta, i would expect to see notes and highlites on the mobile platforms likely being a top priority. I personally would like a quick way to switch resources, like we have on the desktop machines or a way of logging out so only resources we have downloaded to our devices are used. Again these mobile features may make it to a new version sometime but i don;t expect to see anything till Android is caught up.
These are just my feelings in response to your frustrations but i will say while at times regretting an occasional purchase, over all i regret nothing about the over all owning of a piece of software that helps me so much.
-Dan
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I can't speak to 'history'. And I thoroughly love my Libronix. But shopping on the A-company site is really depressing sometimes. Even the B-company. Now I get catalogs from the C-company and I have to quickly drop them in the bin in the garage it's so depressing. Back to Libronix.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Gene Britton said:
Am I wrong?
Yes, I think you are.
I think you've started taking this kind of technology for granted and have lost your focus.
'Outdated' is one word I can see that has zero application to Logos. The folks over there are working like crazy with limited resources to get as many requests fulfilled as they can. (I say limited resources because they don't charge much for the software...if you've ever purchased software with similar capabilities on a business model, you know what I'm talking about...this thing would cost forty thousand dollars if it was marketed to businesses by a F500 company.)
If you aren't careful, you may become your own worst enemy. At the (considerable) risk of sounding like R. Schuller, stop looking at the glass as half-empty.
(You asked for an opinion...there it is.)
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Gene Britton said:
the inability to highlight on my ipad
Gene - Logos is working very hard on this. One thing you need to consider is that first and foremost, Logos is concerned about their desktop application. The iPad app is great, they are working on it, but the desktop app drives the mobile app, not the other way around. To be able to bring notes & highlighting to the mobile app, Logos is changing the sync infrastructure in L4. This change is a major (albeit "behind the scenes") feature of 4.5, which is in beta now.
If you want some hope about the mobile app & highlighting, see THIS THREAD.
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Outdated? No, I think there's good functionality and a good UI -- Logos is an excellent piece of software.
But EXPENSIVE?! YES! My son just asked me if he could put some Bible software on his computer. Obviously I was very pleased to help him in this and obviously I started looking at my long-time favorite, Logos. The packages were not applicable to him because he's just looking for a Bible version or maybe 2-3, but he's not planning on reading books and etc. So I looked at NIV, NASB, NKJV -- THE CHEAPEST BIBLE I COULD FIND WAS $25!!! What's the deal with that?!
I will end up either deciding I can kind of call myself the primary user of his computer (it's iffy, but I think I could come down on that side) or else I will direct him to another software package. Chances are that once he starts using another software package he will gradually invest in it and won't be coming back to Logos. Not the direction I would prefer, but if he has to pay more for an e-bible than for a print-bible I simply can't in good conscience encourage him to go that way!
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I recently had a stroke and lost my memory,but I do know logos is expensive. the cost is very high, buy I remember it changed how I study. The truth is Logos needs to change some of their pricing, if they do not they will suffer, we do not live in the same times as we did a few years ago, however because of the hard times more people are willing to buy Logos, but they will soon have to stop buying resources if things stay this bad. Of course Logos could help by making the product more affordable and people would keep buying more resources.
As far as an outdated product goes you have lost me on that one, before the stroke I taught a lot of people how to use different bible study programs, overall I found Logos to me the best out there, can you give an eample of a more up to date program???
From what I have seen, if I dropped Logos where would I go???
In Christ,
Jim
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Peter Bowers said:
So I looked at NIV, NASB, NKJV -- THE CHEAPEST BIBLE I COULD FIND WAS $25!!!
If you search the internet for "ebible deluxe" AND libronix you will find a cheap alternative which runs under Libronix. i did this for my sister and she also got the free Logos4 engine which recognized the books. She later when she could afford it bought a Logos4 base package.
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These are good replies and you are helping me with them. I have used Logos for over a decade and it has changed the way I study and prepare my lessons. I may be in a half empty mode today but I am not usually. Several of you pointed out that Logos is still king of the desktop and I have used nothing else lately to doubt that. However I am changing. I use to carry a laptop with me but I rarely do that anymore and often find myself with my Ipad and Iphone and Logos is just not where I think they should be with those instruments. Logos got to the top of the Bible software industry by being ahead of the game and it just appears to me that they are behind on the direction that some of us find ourselves going. I do not doubt that they will get there, but when they do, my concern is they will be behind somewhere else. I want my favorite software to be the leader in all aspects of Bible study software. I guess I am in a half empty mode today for sure!
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Gene Britton said:
I guess I am in a half empty mode today for sure!
We all have those.
Like the guy who was turned into a newt, you'll eventually say (in your best Brit accent), "I got better!"
[:D]
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Thanks for asking. [:D] I think your perspective is a little skewed today.Gene Britton said:Is this just me and am I being too critical?
That is a sale price. That could also be another car in my driveway Yes, it is not pocket change but is a significant savings over the regular selling price. Does any other Bible study software offer a refined (legible & tagged) version of ICC?Gene Britton said:like this morning the ICC commentary set at 1200
Many have complained they thought Logos already has too many irons in the fire. Funny thing is, each of us wants our iron to be the one being heated. I personally have no need whatsoever for Proclaim. I don't own an iPad or Android (yet) and I don't think Logos should try to replicate the desktop on a handheld. I am still using OneNote, so notes in Logos is not my pet project either.Gene Britton said:My appeal is that the company will energize its efforts to become the state of the art leader that it once was
Logos seems to be attempting to be all things to all Bible students. There are efforts to offer many scholarly works (Brill, T&T/Clark, SPCK, Baker Academic.) There are efforts to publish multilingual works (Chinese, Korean, Czech, Russian, Spanish.) They keep up with the the latest in manuscript & original language studies (Dead Sea Scrolls, SEBS, Reverse Interlinears, Near Eastern documents.) Logos moved to the cloud based syncing model so all of your devices will have parallel access. They are reaching out to Women, Catholics, many smaller denominations, and some esoteric readers. They seem to be set on publishing every commentary ever printed. The prolific release of resources indicates Logos does not expect for each of us to buy everything they produce. If one becomes silly enough to want everything, (think [:P] Matthew C Jones & [:P] Lynden Williams & [:P] Rosie) they will quickly be drowned in the flood of new releases. But, oh, what a nice way to go.Gene Britton said:as of late it appears to me that the product is outdated and too expensive.
imho: Logos is not cheap, nor is it outdated. Thanks again for asking.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Gene Britton said:
my concern is they will be behind somewhere else
I find Bob's post here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/40084/299243.aspx#299243 to be very illuminating on this issue (the main point of the thread is Mac, but it touches on mobile too)
Prov. 15:23
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Peter Bowers said:
I will end up either deciding I can kind of call myself the primary user of his computer (it's iffy, but I think I could come down on that side) or else I will direct him to another software package.
Is you son at home, or is he grown? If he is at home, I think you could justify it. Other than that, the questions I would want answered is 1) why does he want "bible software" and 2) what will he use the software for? There is certainly some cheap software out there, but you "get what you pay for." Actually, much of what you can do with the cheap software you can do online for free.
Logos is a great program for serious study. It's usefulness is expanding with the mobile apps and the Vyrso store.
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Alabama ... goodness! On eSword, one doesn't do 'serious' Bible study? I've more 'serious' resources on eSword than I do on Logos.
No offense (truly) mind you, but Logos' behavior really seems to bring out a lot hand-wringing, rationalization on rules, etc. It's amazing to see how well meaning pastors struggle to remain positive.
And for Gene, I've the greatest admiration. Go FC!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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This is MUCH more reasonable! If it had NIV I would purchase it immediately (he does all his memory work in NIV). We may yet go down this road... Thanks for the idea.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Alabama ... goodness! On eSword, one doesn't do 'serious' Bible study? I've more 'serious' resources on eSword than I do on Logos.
I didn't mean to be insulting. Are you saying that eSword's library is as vast as Logos?
Denise Barnhart said:Logos' behavior really seems to bring out a lot hand-wringing
Since you have more "serious" resources on eSword, and since Logos brings you so much hand-wringing, why do you waste your time here?
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That's easy. Because I'm not as smart as George!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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When it comes to tablets and phones Logos is a little behind, but how many other programscan be run on so many platforms?
As far as a good free bible program for the man's son try looking at theWord, I have over 3700 resources and many of those are commentaries, so the book count is much higher, they offer a limmited amount of pay copyrighted bibles, bibles such as the NIV at good prices. You can make collections and search one collection or all your books at once. It has an easy to use note system and you can write your own books in it. It is not Logos but it is the way I must go in order to have many public domain books that can be searched.
In Christ,
Jim
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I would just like to say that I am a really great fan of Logos! Yes, it IS expensive, but there is nothing out there that competes with Logos to my mind - at least on the desktop which is my first priority (ipod touch and ipads etc are wonderful additions but I couldn't do without my desktop!). I sometimes hear how some of you guys have hundreds (maybe thousands) of resources and get a little jealous at times, but I'd rather save up and have a really good Bible programme all be it with fewer carefully picked resources than a rubbish program with lots of rubbish resources. I guess you get what you pay for and those of us with limited budgets just have to be prudently selective.
However, I do think that there is room for a cheaper entry level package, that allows us to introduce our children and friends into 'the ways of Logos' without taking a hefty financial hit (with a good bible included - please let it be NIV). This way, they can quite naturally upgrade as they grow older, wiser, and richer! [:)]
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Jim ... I'm not sure who's the better marketer ... you or Dan. It's a real toss-up. And you do it for free!!!
But I do appreciate your concern for the affordability in studying the Bible. And I DID download your favorite package (next to Logos of course). It's a very interesting program.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Hey, Jim,
Sorry to learn of your stroke on top of your straitened financial circumstancs ~ there sure is a lot of THAT going around! May our Lord uphold and even rejoice your heart in the midst of your troubles[:)]
Steve
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It would be nice to have the ICC set in Logos, but I agree that the price is too high, even at a sale. Sure, if we want the books and are willing to pay the retail price, it's a good deal, and I find the search capability of Logos does indeed revolutionize my study. But this isn't like Anchor Yale or the other sets that are still in copyright. Most of these volumes can be read online on Google books. Sure, it's much easier to read a resource on Logos than on Google books, and I'd have the integration with Bibles etc, but it's much cheaper to go with Google, and we aren't talking about saving just a few dollars. I know some on here adamantly defend the retail price comparison for Public Domain books (I was accused of dictating to Logos and likened to Wall St protesters yesterday for making the same point), but I wouldn't think it's a particularly strong selling point for Logos. Most people evaluating this product simply aren't going to pretend that we don't live in the digital age where books and Bibles are freely available elsewhere, as though the only choice was between the bookstore and Logos. It benefits all of us to have a product that appeals to as many people as possible. I'm happy to pay for newer resources at the same or above what I could get it in print through Amazon, because I think the integration with other products make the extra cost worth it. But Public domain books like Charles' Commentary on Revelation is nearly a hundred dollars, and there's just no way. I'll pay for having the search ability - $10 or $20 if it's a book I really want, but a hundred dollars for something I can read on google? It's not going to happen.
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My great Love for both Logos and theWord is based on seeing both help believers to grow in their faith by looking at the scriptures and interacting with God and His grace! I love how both are being used by God, but I have to confess on a personal level Logos change my study habits. Now that I have learned more about studing with software I am amazed at how programs like theWord can be effective, but it is not LOGOS. I have never seen a progrm better than Logos and I hve most brands and teach others how to use what they have. Addressing the point Logos is expensive, but what else is out there that is better at any price.
In Christ,
Jim
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alabama24 said:
Gene - Logos is working very hard on this. One thing you need to consider is that first and foremost, Logos is concerned about their desktop application.
Nobody disagrees, Logos works hard...
I just want a finished, fully functional, L4 that doesn't shut/slow down while in use.
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Dean053 said:
but I wouldn't think it's a particularly strong selling point for Logos.
I am not saying the following is part of Logos marketing philosophy BUT......
General Motors builds a very limited number of Corvettes. They could build a lot more and still sell every one of them. When I go to the local dealer's showroom I discover he has only been allotted one or two for the model year. Most buyers have to place an order well in advance to get one. The ICC was the flagship for expensive commentary sets. The pricing seems arbitrary since it is a public domain content. Could it be Logos only needs a small number of sales to meet their projected profit margin for that resource? Or is it the ICC does not bring in enough in sales at a lower price to meet projected revenue? There is a balance somewhere in between the "retail" price and the price we are willing to pay.
If John MacArthur decided to charge $50 for each book he writes and never discount them, a lot of people would refuse to pay that price. But rest assured, some would pay upwards of that and buy as many books as he will publish. Some will buy a Corvette regardless of the price. Others will buy ICC at whatever Logos asks. Not everybody is strapped for cash, just 99% of us are. Logos may be experimenting with different titles in different marketing models to position for the uncertain future of eBooks.
Volkswagen Group sells the Bugatti for 1.7 Million dollars. They won't sell one to me but somebody is buying them.
405 km/ph in 2.3 sec.Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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With what Logos brings to the table, I consider it a good buy. I'm probably as much a cheapskate as anyone on the forum, but when I consider what I can do with Logos that I cannot with my paper books and with cheaper Bible study programs, I am thankful for Logos.
Logos has to make a profit, or the company won't be around to provide the resources and support we desire. The resources are not cheap, but, on the whole, I think it's a great value.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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After reading the good replies and some of the suggested links, I am thinking maybe it is my Ipad that I am disappointed with more than Logos. At this point the Ipad is not much more than a reader and maybe I was expecting to do more serious study and research as I would on my laptop. I am trying to make it into something that it is not, at least not yet.
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Gene Britton said:
At this point the Ipad is not much more than a reader
That is pretty much what I thought it was designed to be—an overgrown iPhone without the phone, which is the reason I never purchased one.
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Gene Britton said:
At this point the Ipad is not much more than a reader
Jack Caviness said:That is pretty much what I thought it was designed to be—an overgrown iPhone without the phone, which is the reason I never purchased one.
Jack - I've never seen you so wrong... [:P]
First, Gene is TRYING to say that the Logos iPad app is "not much more than a reader" (which is unfair, and the app is improving). The iPad itself, however, is much more. The day after the iPad came out prognosticators said the same thing. They thought that Steve Jobs had his first major flop since his return... they were wrong. The iPad is NOT an iPhone; The iPad is NOT a laptop. It is a unique device that I use everyday. The millions sold prove that out.
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Thanks Alabama!
I have just had for a few weeks and do need to spend more time with the product.
How do you use it?
First, how do you hold, or do you? If I am in my recliner I have one of the fold back covers that forms a triangle type grip that tires my hand after awhile. What type of cover makes a comfortable grip?
How do you lay out your Logos? Do you use the dual screen option? One of my problems is if I follow a link to check out another comment, I have difficulty getting back to where I was. I am sure this is just a lack of experience with the product. Now I am using several apps instead of moving around in Logos. I use Olive Tree, Kindle, and other programs and switch from one to another. I am sure this is something that I can change with more experience with the product, but any tips would be helpful.
I currently do two sermons, two classes, and an article each week so I have several studies going at once. On my laptop I use a split screen layout with my translations on the left and my favorite commentaries on the right. So if I enter a text on the left, I have options of several commentaries to examine with that text. I have not figured out how to do something like that with my Ipad.
When I first received I thought Ipad would be something that I would use in the pulpit and classroom, but that is not working either; that too is probably just because of my lack of experience with the product. Do you use your ipad in direct teaching and preaching?
I am originally from the Shoals area of Alabama, so you have to take that in consideration also. [:)]
Thanks for your knowledgeable feedbacks!
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Hi Gene - thought I would add my thoughts
Gene Britton said:First, how do you hold, or do you? If I am in my recliner I have one of the fold back covers that forms a triangle type grip that tires my hand after awhile. What type of cover makes a comfortable grip?
I have a TeckNet cover. It is similar to the official Apple ones in that it does have the option of folding the front cover into a triangle at the back which I use when I am reading the iPad on a desk. For normal reading - in a chair on in bed - I will just fold the cover all the way back and hold the iPad as though it were a small stack of paper. I find this works fine.
Gene Britton said:Do you use the dual screen option?
It depends what I am doing. If I am just reading through a book and occasionally looking at a reference then I will have the resource open across the whole screen. A couple of days ago, however, I read through an entire commentary on Revelation on my iPad and used the split-screen mode then with the commentary on one side and a Bible translation on the other as an easy way of checking what the commentary was saying about the text.
Gene Britton said:One of my problems is if I follow a link to check out another comment, I have difficulty getting back to where I was
Have you found the "back" button? Just tap the middle of the screen and you will get menus at the top and bottom. The back button is the arrow at the top-left. If you "press and hold" you will see recent things you have read which should help in navigating back to them.
Gene Britton said:So if I enter a text on the left, I have options of several commentaries to examine with that text. I have not figured out how to do something like that with my Ipad.
The best you can do here is to call up the Passage Guide from the text (which will appear in a separate full screen) and then select commentaries from there.
Gene Britton said:Do you use your ipad in direct teaching and preaching?
I do, but at the moment pretty much as "electronic paper". In other words, I prepare the notes for my sermon, import them into Pages on the iPad and refer to them during the service. I am experimenting with having a Bible open as well and using the "four-finger swipe" to move between them but haven't really got into this yet. I normally include the text of Bible references in my notes so everything is in one place.
Hope this is helpful
Graham
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Oh my. Pick Alabama24 off the floor; he's died and gone to heaven. iPad and Alabama combined!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I think Logos works well on the PC. The mobile versions are helpful, but not all-encompassing. I would really love to be able to reading plan, highlight and take simple notes that sync across all my computers/devices.
I'd also love for the resource cost to be far cheaper--I'm pretty much to the point that I only buy from CP these days or the occasional sale...but then again, I already have more than I could possibly read in my lifetime.
I'm content with what I've got, but when others ask about what I use, because of the high entry cost (for the cornfields of S. Il), I also take time to show them how they could use free internet resources to do the same thing--albeit not integrated and not nearly as quickly.
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It was very helpful, thank you!
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Gene Britton said:
First, how do you hold, or do you? If I am in my recliner I have one of the fold back covers that forms a triangle type grip that tires my hand after awhile. What type of cover makes a comfortable grip?
If your cover bothers you... get rid of the cover. I don't use one. I do have a hard case to carry it around though.
Gene Britton said:How do you lay out your Logos? Do you use the dual screen option?
I do use the "dual screen" (really, its a "split" screen) option on occasion. Some people use the app to do words studies and the like. Actually, when it comes to "study" I am more inclined to read with my iPad and write at my desk. In your original post you complained about not having notes & highlighting. I agree, but it is coming. Did you read the THREAD I made reference to? When those features come, I will use the app significantly each day.
Gene Britton said:I have not figured out how to do something like that with my Ipad.
The mobile app will not replace your Desktop/Laptop, at least right now. The iPad app will continue to mature, as will future iterations of the iPad itself. I have the original iPad. I Love it. I am surprised, however, how much better the iPad 2 is.
Gene Britton said:Do you use your ipad in direct teaching and preaching?
I was in the full time ministry for 8 years and returned to school 4 years ago. I just graduated in May, and do not have a regular speaking ministry. I did, however, use my iPod touch to control several presentations. It was good, but the iPad would have been much better. Keynote was set up on my MacBook and iPod, the image was mirrored on my iPod, plus I could see my notes.
My personal opinion is that the technology should fade to the background. I don't mean that you shouldn't use an iPad in preaching, but there is a difference between using technology to facilitate your speaking and "a guy playing with his phone up on stage." I don't think this is a generational thing. When I was in class, there were students considerably younger than me who looked like they were playing with toys. Their were older students who used the technology to their advantage, but it did not become a distraction (to me at least).
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I've begun using my iPad for preaching. I simply move my notes to the pad using Dropbox and Docs to Go. Works great. Now I have the bliblical text and any quotes I'm using all on one page. Makes moving through the message so much more seamless. Only real problem is inadvertently tunring it sideways and it shifting to landscape. Uh oh! But in general, I love it. Different strokes, right?
Concerning Logos . . . I've been using it for over 10 years, and while it can be quite frustrating, it continues to maximize sermon prep efficiency. Truthfully, I think most of the problem lies with me in terms of frustration. Bottom line: the more Bob & co. give us, the more I want. And I always want more NOW. It's a fantastic product!
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Super Tramp said:
Volkswagen Group sells the Bugatti for 1.7 Million dollars. They won't sell one to me but somebody is buying them.
Perhaps they will sell it to me. If you give me the cash, I am willing to act as the middleman. [:D]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Graham Criddle said:
Hi Gene - thought I would add my thoughts
You summed up my ways of using iPad very well Graham.
A few weeks ago I started to use it also for preaching. I have to say it works better than notebook. I convert docx to pdf, open it through the Dropbox on my iPad in GoodReader application. It is the best IMHO. It can be setup to keep iPad switched on all the time and also to lock the screen in the needed position. It opens docx also but for pdfs it has more options, like turning whole pages etc. I noticed that iPad is more discreet on the pulpit than a notebook. I like it very much.
Bohuslav
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alabama24 said:
The iPad is NOT an iPhone; The iPad is NOT a laptop. It is a unique device that I use everyday. The millions sold prove that out.
This is where I get confused. The whole Apple approach seems to attempt the convergence of all my hardware devices. Nina & I went to Starbucks last night and I observed a young man who thinks he is digitally connected. He walked in with his laptop bag slung over his shoulder. After setting up his computer he stood up and whipped out his iPhone and his Blackberry, one in each hand, and synchronized them. It just seemed a little burdensome or maybe he just doesn't get the convenience part of being "connected."
My son makes phone calls from his iPad (using VOIP? I don't know. I didn't ask.) But when I finally do get an iPad, and I will, I do not think I will do a whole lot more than reading on it. I try to avoid integrated hardware as much as possible.Jack Caviness said:
That is pretty much whatGene Britton said:At this point
the Ipad is not much more than a reader
I thought it was designed to be—an overgrown iPhone without the phone,
which is the reason I never purchased one.If Logos wants to replicate all the functionality of the desktop app on the iPad, more power to them. I just need a reader I can hi-lite.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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ST - I don't think you are confused... It's the dork with the blackberry. [:P]
If you only plan on reading with an iPad, don't waste your money. Get a $70 kindle. It would be a better reader.
The reason to get an iPad is to use all of the various apps. This includes: reading, email, notes, video, games, social media, web browsing, playing music, calendar, GPS, etc. If you don't plan on doing these things, why spend the money?
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MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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alabama24 said:
If you only plan on reading with an iPad, don't waste your money. Get a $70 kindle. It would be a better reader. The reason to get an iPad is to use all of the various apps. This includes: reading, email, notes, video, games, social media, web browsing, playing music, calendar, GPS, etc. If you don't plan on doing these things, why spend the money?
I like the idea of running all those apps. I just don't think I'd need the iPad to be able to do in-depth studies with Logos. I have a netbook with Logos for those long waiting room stints. Now I am starting to sound like the "well connected " guy at Starbucks. Adding an iPad to my arsenal of hardware when I could be replacing something with the iPad. Maybe I should encourage all the Logos iPad app development I can.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Todd Phillips said:
Not if you want to read Logos books.alabama24 said:Get a $70 kindle. It would be a better reader.
I know very little about the Kindle other than I really like the eInk because I can read it so easily.
How much of my Logos library can be accessed from Biblia.com on a Kindle ? I read something about using a Kindle 3G to access websites other than Amazon's.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:Todd Phillips said:
Not if you want to read Logos books.alabama24 said:Get a $70 kindle. It would be a better reader.
I know very little about the Kindle other than I really like the eInk because I can read it so easily.
How much of my Logos library can be accessed on a Kindle from Biblia.com? I read something about using a Kindle 3G to access websites other than Amazon's.
You'll have to ask those with Kindles, but if you search the forum, there has been discussion about that in the past. I don't think biblia works with the kindle browser, but library.logos.com does.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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I have been buying only Logos software for Bible study for at least 16 years. I think more, but it is hard to remember. I had the old CDWORD program before Logos, and Logos bought the rights to CDWORD content, and I upgraded to what must have been close to the first Logos program available. Since Logos came along, I have tried to get my resources in Logos format exclusively.
I still think Logos is a great program. It has helped me to build a wonderful library for which I am thankful. In the earlier days it seemed that the company bent over backwards to do the right thing with every customer. Lately, not so much.
I am beginning to wonder if my strategy of exclusive Logos Bible resources is still wise. Frankly, I have been somewhat turned off by what I consider deceptive advertising. I get a solicitation for a price that is 60% off, but in reality is far less off. That 60% is off an imaginary price that no one on the planet charges, including Logos. The real discount may be 30 or 20%. The first and only time that I bit at one of those artificial bait prices was the day that my naive trust in Logos ceased. Some degree of the exclusive loyalty that I felt died. It may not bother others, but it does me. It is mighty close to a lie, in my opinion.
The realization that the fee for books purchased in a "payment plan" is higher than my credit card charges in interest for a purchase of around $500 is another thing that bothers me. Apparently it doesn't bother most, but the return exceeds 15% per year. That is on top of the profit in the resource purchase, and it bothers me. Especially, when I read posts talking about how generous Logos is to offer the payment plan.
The price of many resources are simply too high, but I do not blame Logos for that exclusively. Publishers have much of the blame, but some of it I suspect lies with Logos as well. I feel I have little reason to think that they would not do anything - right up to deception to maximize profits.
I no longer trust anything Logos tells me until I verify it. That is not a good feeling about your Bible software company.
Also, the "fan boy" attitude toward Logos, which I used to share, is a real turn off. I can not blindly applaud everything they do.
But, at this point I have far too much invested to not stick with Logos. Besides, it is a great program, and I do most of my serious study with it. I still love it, but I sure have a "lover's quarrel" with it too.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Michael Childs said:
Frankly, I have been somewhat turned off by what I consider deceptive advertising.
agreed
Michael Childs said:The realization that the fee for books purchased in a "payment plan" is higher than my credit card charges in interest
agreed, although I would point out that putting it on your credit card is always an option.
Michael Childs said:The price of many resources are simply too high
agreed but assume the market forces support them ... compare some of the Brill prices in traditional formats.
Michael Childs said:I no longer trust anything Logos tells me until I verify it.
My trust level has not changed ... it all depends on your starting point, I guess.
Michael Childs said:Also, the "fan boy" attitude toward Logos,
I find the forums evenly balanced at the extremes - fan boys and nay sayers. Of the two, the nay sayers are the more annoying in their abuse of objective information; the fan boys more dangerous in the responses they evoke. I hope they are both better exegeters of Scripture than they are of forum posts.[:P]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I hope they are both better exegeters of Scripture than they are of forum posts.
Yes, they do give one the "jitters" sometimes. Perhaps they could get us another Jeter (Go Yankees — next year).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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alabama24 said:
Jack - I've never seen you so wrong...
My bride would probably tell you that I have been much more wrong than this, but then she has lived with me for 50 years [8-|]. Nice to know that the iPad is more than I thought it was, but still not tempted to purchase one—or am I? A fellow Church member brings one on Wednesday evenings and uses it to record prayer needs. Guess he could tell me more. Have to be careful though, as he manages a Verizon store [:D]
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