I would like the ability to turn off 'Smart Mode' in Linking...
Hello,
I would like the ability to turn off Smart Mode in Linking. For example, when multiple commentaries are linked to a Primary Bible, and further reading is desired in one commentary, I would request that even though 'all' are linked through "A" only the commentary being read would move upon Verse change (in the Commentary). Only upon returning to the Primary Linked Bible, the commentary remains the same, until a new verse in this Bible (or a Linked Bible) is Selected. This feature could be programmed to respond only to the Open Linked Bibles for 'change' recognition.
Thank You.
Comments
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If I'm understanding you correctly, you want a 'leader' in the linking (all others follow). Which I believe you can vote for.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
If I'm understanding you correctly, you want a 'leader' in the linking (all others follow). Which I believe you can vote for.
Logos User Voice suggestion => Linked Commentaries The current implementation of linked commentaries has some difficulties in its is ranked # 33 with 73 votes.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Douglas said:
For example, when multiple commentaries are linked to a Primary Bible, and further reading is desired in one commentary
I don't know if this "fix" has ever been mentioned before but scrolling in one of your linked commentaries and then having other commentaries follow and your linked Bible follow can be frustrating as it messes up your layout. To fix this, click the left arrow in your linked Bible (which takes you to a previous location) and then click the right arrow and all your books should go back to the original location.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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OK, Jerry. I'll bite.
What's the second forward click for?
On my Logos4 (latest update), none of the arrows work anyway (they're greyed out).
I think I lost their abilities a few updates back? The up/down ones work.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
What's the second forward click for?
I am using the stable version of Logos 4 in Windows. I can only speak for that version. If I have a Bible and commentaries linked and scroll in one of the commentaries it changes the location of my Bible from the place I am studying to wherever I scroll to in the commentary. To get back to that location in my Bible, if I click the left arrow, which I see in black it takes me to a previous location, perhaps even a different book of the Bible. At that point the right arrow turns black and if I click on it, I go back to the original location I was studying. I hope that is clear. You would think if you were at Galatians 3:5 and you scroll in a linked commentary down to Galatians 4:2 and your Bible now shows Galatians 4:2 in the reference box that if you click the left arrow it would take you back to Galatians 3:5, but it doesn't work that way. It takes you to some other location that you had been at earlier. Then if you click the right arrow it takes you back to Galatians 3:5.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Thank you for the expanded explanation. Interesting design.
I'm on the stable one too, but who knows why my arrows are dead.
Out here in AZ-land, dead arrows are because one didn't do the proper pre-attack songs/dances. Maybe that's my problem.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
OK, Jerry. I'll bite.
What's the second forward click for?
On my Logos4 (latest update), none of the arrows work anyway (they're greyed out).
I think I lost their abilities a few updates back? The up/down ones work.
Demand a refund. [6] Oh, we didn't pay anything for the engine? Your arrows should work — the left-right arrows take you to your previous location and return. The up-down arrows scroll (bible text) by a chapter or section in other resources. Seriously though, if your arrows don't work something is wrong.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Douglas said:
I would like the ability to turn off Smart Mode in Linking.
This has been asked for many, many times, and can be found on uservoice here (though it only has 7 votes there!?). Sometimes this is called having a "driver" resource and "follower" resources - probably because some other Bible program does this and calls them that.
In the meantime, I recommend not linking commentaries while reading them. What I do is open my Bible to the passage I want to study and then sync my commentary to the passage and immediately unlink it. I've never found it to be much of a problem to do it that way, and have been at least since early Libronix days.
There is a program a user developed that will sync resources to a link set for you in one click, though I don't remember what it's called at the moment.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard ... I very much appreciate your belief in Logos etc. And I like it too. Really!
It's just that periodically the recommendation (work-around) is positively bizaare.
'I recommend not linking commentaries while reading them.'
Why in heaven's name would one want Bible software, other than so the 'smart' people can advise you while reading your Bible? It's the most basic of desires (graduating of course to hebrew/greek lookup).
Then of course, there's the sarcastic people who might alternatively suggest linking them only when you're NOT reading them?
I know I probably drive you crazy, but it just seems like people make a lot of excuses for what should be obvious ... fix the software?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
I know I probably drive you crazy, but it just seems like people make a lot of excuses for what should be obvious ... fix the software?
I'm not making, or trying to make excuses. I'm just explaining what I do because of the way Logos works.
Of course I want to read my commentaries as I study. But when I link them all together, the Bible and all the other linked stuff starts to move around, and so linking gets in the way (especially with the Word commentaries!). So I unlink.
Until Logos changes how it works, a work around is necessary - at least for me.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
In the meantime, I recommend not linking commentaries while reading them. What I do is open my Bible to the passage I want to study and then sync my commentary to the passage and immediately unlink it.
This is very similar actions that occur when using my QuickLinks tools. Except you just click in the unlinked window and then on one of the QL helpers in your shortcut bar.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Then of course, there's the sarcastic people who might alternatively suggest linking them only when you're NOT reading them?
I know I probably drive you crazy, but it just seems like people make a lot of excuses for what should be obvious ... fix the software?
Okay, Denise, you're missing a major point. When people come to the forum to ask how to do something, the appropriate response is to tell them how best to do what they asked, or to tell them it can't currently be done - would this be a good substitute or how to make a suggestion for a new function. When people come to the forum asking how to do something, it is not helpful to tell them how it would work if I had designed the system or why they shouldn't want to do something because I think Logos' way is a kludge. Please don't dismiss people simply because they are trying to help a user not reshape a product. And, by the way, Richard does do a good job of trying to reshape the product in the beta forums where it is more appropriate.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Oh, I'm well aware of the major point. Indeed that IS the major point.
The user is making a suggestion that is basic to Bible software: connecting a Bible to a commentary so he can continue studying his Bible.
Richard's recommended solution is: don't.
I view that as truly bizarre. It IS the correct answer (for Logos). And it's a bizaare answer as well.
Now, you're concerned about Richard. I agree, we all need to be concerned about Richard. He's nice, and he's helpful. He does his best.
But I'm still amazed at the answer.
How did the software arrive in late 2011, two years after release and apparently four years after initial development, and that is the answer that 'star' members must give? You included?
Do we need to bring up the thousands of dollars spent FOR the commentaries? But don't link them?
Or maybe the pastors that week after week develop sermons (as Richard does)? Don't link them?
I'm amazed.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Now, you're concerned about Richard. I agree, we all need to be concerned about Richard. He's nice, and he's helpful. He does his best. But I'm still amazed at the answer.
Let's see, I can take take a partial solution from a working Pastor (Richard) that accepts reality and lives in the here & now, making the best of the situation he has been handed, or I can hyperventilate and demand that Pastor (Richard) drop everything he is productively accomplishing with the tools he has at his disposal and answer for something he is not responsible for and has no power to effect change upon.
If that Pastor chooses to continue applying his time and efforts towards his primary goal, I can belittle his choice and question his sincerity.
Sounds like some will use any excuse to beat their drum for their pet peeves. Yeah, we spend money on our Logos & the resources. How many dollars has Richard or any MVP received from you?
Other than all that........Thank you Denise. Maybe the arrows you are clicking on are the type I used to collect in AZ-land:
Click two together for a spark? maybe [:D]question: What would you tell Douglas the OP? Besides burn your draft card and move to Berkeley? [6]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Sorry, Super Tramp. I know, I know ... 'star' number 3.
But I'm still amazed.
To me, even more amazing is Steve.
He's HAS to be spending tremendous time doing the wiki (along with others as well).
Plus he is on the forum daily frequently helping users.
And then he literally writes software in order to overcome the amazing problem with connecting a Bible with a commentary.
Now you guys seem have your feathers ruffled.
The point isn't 'you'. It's your sincere efforts to overcome the software. You're constantly giving people 'work-arounds'.
It would seem like the easier path might be to just fix the software.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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<edited out for brevity>
Denise Barnhart said:I'm amazed.
Which is just fine as long as we leave room for others to have other responses. Whether one is happy, frustrated or angry with Logos, room must be made for others to have other reactions - what one is trying to do and how one wants to work varies from person to person. It follows that people will, therefore, have varying levels of satisfaction with Logos. Doesn't mean we're fan-boys or grumps - just means it comes closer or further to our particular needs.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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That is what we call lighting a candle rather than cursing the darkness.Denise Barnhart said:But I'm still amazed. To me, even more amazing is Steve. He's HAS to be spending tremendous time doing the wiki (along with others as well). Plus he is on the forum daily frequently helping users. And then he literally writes software
This thread was focused on offering suggestions to address the original poster's issue until somebody derailed it with "expensive software/poor design"...Denise Barnhart said:Now you guys seem have your feathers ruffled.
Whether or not any of us agrees with you on the state of the software, NONE of the forum posters can do anything about the software. (If I touched it, I would break it. [:$] ) That is what I said about Richard here:Denise Barnhart said:It would seem like the easier path might be to just fix the software.
Super Tramp said:demand that Pastor (Richard) drop
everything he is productively accomplishing with the tools he has at his
disposal and answer for something he is not responsible for and has no
power to effect change upon.Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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MJ ... I'm not angry or anything. To be honest, I've been laughing all afternoon at Richard's response. It's not 'Richard' ... it's a person valiently trying to be positive about what is an obvious problem. And a problem the company owner knows intimately well (it being his decision).
I never link my Bibles to my commentaries for the exact same reason that Richard gives.
I just wouldn't have the guts to tell a user that. Not after they might have spent thousands of dollars/euros/etc, having been assured they could link their resources.
'We just don't recommend it.'
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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MJ. Smith said:Which is just fine but please leave room for others to have other responses. Whether one is happy, frustrated or angry with Logos, room must be made for others to have other reactions - what one is trying to do and how one wants to work varies from person to person. It follows that people will, therefore, have varying levels of satisfaction with Logos. Doesn't mean we're fan-boys or grumps - just means it comes closer or further to my particular needs.
That kind of talk sounds like you believe different people have different study methods and goals. [:O]
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Once again, since Richard can't do anything about the software, why hold him accountable.?Denise Barnhart said:And a problem the company owner knows intimately well (it being his decision).
The only other option is to ignore the original post, unless you can tell me what your suggestion to the OP's issue would be. (You do say you handle it the same way.)Denise Barnhart said:I just wouldn't have the guts to tell a user that.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Well, in between replaying Takemiya Masaki and Kobayashi Koichi's go game from April 1986 (where Masaki's opening response is odd), I remembered just today I told a new possible Logos owner that he could link up his NKJV with a spanish Bible. So far so good.
Then I told him he could even link up his spanish commentaries. True statement. But it'd be somewhat of a disaster.
Now, Richard could point out my error, right?
And he'd be correct.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
it's a person valiently trying to be positive about what is an obvious problem.
To me, being negative is a waste of time and counterproductive to my long-term goals.. I consider myself to be a half-glass completely full kind of person.[:)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I consider myself to be a half-glass completely full kind of person.
[*-)] I'm just not as thirsty as other people. Half a glass satisfies me. [C]
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Douglas said:
Hello,
I would like the ability to turn off Smart Mode in Linking. For example, when multiple commentaries are linked to a Primary Bible, and further reading is desired in one commentary, I would request that even though 'all' are linked through "A" only the commentary being read would move upon Verse change (in the Commentary). Only upon returning to the Primary Linked Bible, the commentary remains the same, until a new verse in this Bible (or a Linked Bible) is Selected. This feature could be programmed to respond only to the Open Linked Bibles for 'change' recognition.
Thank You.
My way of using Bibles and commentaries (as a pastor in my regular sermon preparation and other studies) is twofold:
1... I have a layout with the different Bibles and commentaries linked (usually one commentary that covers whole Bible, in my case Tyndale, and one Study Bible ESV). I use it when I want each resource follow the group from any resource I am in. I use arrows (the keyboard ones) to switch between the parallel commentaries and I am glad it stays linked in this case. It is good IMHO for a basic browsing of the Bibles and commentaries.
2... When I start to study a given Bible passage, most often I open it in one of my Passage Guides. Then Commentaries are not linked and I can go wherever I need in the given commentary and come back to the leading passage by clicking it again in the list of commentaries in the Passage Guide.
This way really works well for me and I have never felt any need for some other way of linking, although as I have read your suggestion I realized I agree with it and would use the function if implemented in Logos.
Bohuslav
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This has become a bit of a Theology on the Methodology of Life Response. The initial Post requested the changing of the Software. Most of my suggestions (if not all) are Proposing 'Software Changes' for more efficient use. I like Logos, that is why I invest in it. And as it reaches its peek in information utilization I am better served. While the -work arounds- are useful to a degree, the Initial purpose for this post was a "Suggestion".
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Hi Douglas,
Douglas said:While the -work arounds- are useful to a degree, the Initial purpose for this post was a "Suggestion".
Your comments are noted and i am sure that Logos views the Suggestions forum and notes them. Thank you for all your suggestions!
Please keep in mind that others on the forum view your suggestions. And it can be helpful to them to see the work-arounds.
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Absolutely
Responding to Primary Objective Only. (Due to any misconception of the notion
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Douglas said:
Absolutely
Responding to Primary Objective Only. (Due to any misconception of the notion I appreciate your suggestion and purpose. Thanks.
I do think this particular thread generated enough to get the attention of Logos. Unfortunately some suggestions get no responses. I do believe somebody at Logos is assigned to actually read every post in this "suggestions" category. If the forums were mine, I would use heavy lines of demarcation between beta, Mac, suggestions, Proclaim, iPad, etc. It's easy to post in or respond to an incorrect area.
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Peace, Jerry! *smile*Jerry M said:Douglas said:For example, when multiple commentaries are linked to a Primary Bible, and further reading is desired in one commentary
I don't know if this "fix" has ever been mentioned before but scrolling in one of your linked commentaries and then having other commentaries follow and your linked Bible follow can be frustrating as it messes up your layout. To fix this, click the left arrow in your linked Bible (which takes you to a previous location) and then click the right arrow and all your books should go back to the original location.
I am very grateful indeed for your great help in this area! Works perfectly for me as I use Parallel Resources.
If I remember correctly, Morris Procter in one of his articles in the Logos Blogs used the Bookmark for the same effect.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Douglas said:
This has become a bit of a Theology on the Methodology of Life Response. The initial Post requested the changing of the Software. Most of my suggestions (if not all) are Proposing 'Software Changes' for more efficient use. I like Logos, that is why I invest in it. And as it reaches its peek in information utilization I am better served. While the -work arounds- are useful to a degree, the Initial purpose for this post was a "Suggestion".
This is why I suggested the UserVoice link as well.
Just by way of reasoning, whenever someone makes a suggestion for a feature for which there is another way to accomplish the same objective (whether by way of program design or work-around) I suggest it as well, since sometimes this is what a user is looking for.
As to the rest of the discussion, I was gone on vacation for most of it (got back today). Doesn't seem like there's much point in re-discussing it. Thanks for those who came to my 'defense,' though I didn't feel at all attacked, or even misunderstood.
Denise, I take some small satisfaction in having surprised you--even if it was unintentional. As a pastor, being unpredictable is somewhat of a goal, at times.
Logos, I do hope you seriously consider this master/slave, driver/follower idea seriously. Doing so would improve the functionality of this software. Though, if I could, I'd put all 10 votes on uservoice for a fully functional sermon/illustration compiler that works as well or better than what we had in Libronix.
Until then: I'll link and unlink as described above, just as I've done since (at least) Libronix days.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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