Is Topics working?

Is the topic feature working yet? Every passage guide that I use yields the same results beginning with Abel and lists everything the same in alphabetical order. And when I do a search, I never get TOPICS at the top of the results, even when I search for Communion as in the Logos 4 Video.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Mitch Davis

Is the topic feature working yet? Every passage guide that I use yields the same results beginning with Abel and lists everything the same in alphabetical order. And when I do a search, I never get TOPICS at the top of the results, even when I search for Communion as in the Logos 4 Video.

Dewayne,

Are you in the Bible search or the Basic search....the Basic search will show the Topic section at the top.

Chris Elford

Is the topic feature working yet? Every passage guide that I use yields the same results beginning with Abel and lists everything the same in alphabetical order. And when I do a search, I never get TOPICS at the top of the results, even when I search for Communion as in the Logos 4 Video.

I haven't seen or heard that it is. I keep it turned off on passage guide until it has better algorithms.

Chris

Dewayne Davis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31766#Comment_31766

the Basic search will show the Topic section at the top.

If you can get a result somewhere that shows Topics, please give me an example that I can try. Thanks.

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31779#Comment_31779

the Basic search will show the Topic section at the top.

If you can get a result somewhere that shows Topics, please give me an example that I can try. Thanks.

Dewayne,

Maybe I misunderstood. The tool works, but the results are weird. You get big letter on incredible topics because it values them by the number of times a linked? word is used in a resource.

Topics is a standard result in a Passage Guide and an option in Exegetical Guides.

Chris

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31779#Comment_31779

The Passage Guide returns junk. A Basic search is just a little better.

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31779#Comment_31779

Dewayne,

If all you want is to have Topics at the top, you can move the elements around by dragging and dropping on the "label bar" - blue bar with "Topics" and the little arrow for closing/opening - at least in a custom guide

Chris

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31789#Comment_31789

The tool works, but the results are weird. You get big letter on incredible topics because it values them by the number of times a linked? word is used in a resource.

I asked about that in the Beta but never got an answer. Some algorithm.

Those words only link to things like Nave's Topical Bible. Not bad but limited and I can do without the gigantic lettering. It doesn't even reflect incidence of words within the passage. It is a loser in my opinion.

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31794#Comment_31794

Clarification:

There are two things, not related, topic like Mitch talked about and Mark showed you - that works with a Basic search on a topic (as opposed to a reference) and Topics (note the plural) which is a category (not sure what to call it) in Passage and Exegetical Guides.

You used the singular so Mitch and Mark are on topic. I was referring to the plural one.

Sorry for the confusion.

Chris

Dewayne Davis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31791#Comment_31791

The Passage Guide returns junk. A Basic search is just a little better.

I do not ever get a Topics section in my searches like the one in your screen shot. I think that there is a problem on my machine.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31873#Comment_31873

I do not ever get a Topics section in my searches like the one in your screen shot. I think that there is a problem on my machine.

The magic is ... if you don't hit on a topic you'll not see it. Try marriage or Adam or to see really cool features Magnificat

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31894#Comment_31894

Can someone clarify something for me? (Please see results in picture before responding)

This is what I perceive; tell me if I'm wrong:

In v3; Logos quietly used your topically arranged resources behind the scenes when you did a "topic search" so you never saw anything but headlines from your search...then you could pick and choose what you'd like to explore further.

In V4, there is flexibility to NOT search the proper topical resource, so the chance of getting "junk hits" is much greater...same as searching "entire library" in v3 right? Lotsa junk.

But this is where everyone is losing me.

IF I make a collection of TOPICALLY ARRANGED AND TAGGED resources and only search that (just what a V3 topic search did right?)...the hits seem to be exactly what V3 would have returned, and from the same volumes!

How am I wrong that this is a very functional TOPIC SEARCH?...I see topics...in their context...and even synonyms and related items...very useful.

I can, by the titles and excerpts, decide from any number of topics and subtopics

Marriage,
Levirate Marriage,
Bridechamber
Dowery
Bigamy
Polygamy

etc...all topics...

How is this not a good thing?

Not only can I see the topic itself, I can see some context for each topic...and I can see where it came from...all good things when deciding to dig further.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31912#Comment_31912

How is this not a good thing?

That is a good thing. L4 is also trying to offer a better thing.

Dewayne Davis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31894#Comment_31894

The magic is ... if you don't hit on a topic you'll not see it. Try marriage or Adam or to see really cool features Magnificat

I guess I am not being clear. I DID do a search for Adam, Magnificat, Marriage, Abel, Love, Communion, and I never get a section called Topics. Is this only available with the paid crossgrade? Or is their possibly a problem with my installation?

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/32025#Comment_32025

Someone who knows more about the "under the hood" stuff that they are trying to hide from us will have ot answer, but I think the new Topic information is part of the "Logos Controlled Vocabulary" which is included in the minimal crossgrades and new collections but not in the free engine.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/32025#Comment_32025

Is this only available with the paid crossgrade?

I can't be 100% sure, but this is probably the reason. Do you have a reading list option under Tools>Library?

Dewayne Davis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/32098#Comment_32098

Someone who knows more about the "under the hood" stuff that they are trying to hide from us will have ot answer, but I think the new Topic information is part of the "Logos Controlled Vocabulary" which is included in the minimal crossgrades and new collections but not in the free engine.

Apparently this was the case. I plopped down the 200 bucks for the crossgrade and now it works.

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/31912#Comment_31912

But this is where everyone is losing me.

IF I make a collection of TOPICALLY ARRANGED AND TAGGED resources and only search that (just what a V3 topic search did right?)...the hits seem to be exactly what V3 would have returned, and from the same volumes!

How am I wrong that this is a very functional TOPIC SEARCH?...I see topics...in their context...and even synonyms and related items...very useful.

I can, by the titles and excerpts, decide from any number of topics and subtopics

Marriage,

Levirate Marriage,

Bridechamber

Dowery

Bigamy

Polygamy

etc...all topics...

How is this not a good thing?

Not only can I see the topic itself, I can see some context for each topic...and I can see where it came from...all good things when deciding to dig further.

Robert,

Now you're losing me [:)] (if it was me that was losing you!)

The Topic section of a basic search seems to me to be a good thing! The hits are relevant and in context.

In one of the beta discussions Sean Boisen of Logos said:

Much of what we called "topics" in the past is now incorporated directly into Basic Search. . . . including direct links to key dictionary entries.

What I don't think is good is the Topics section of a Passage Guide or Exegetical Guide. These seem random and out of context.

Here's what I got in a passage guide for Heb 6:1 this afternoon:

"Unclassified Scriptures Relating to Grace of God" "Growth in Hands" "The House, Architecture of" -- These are not good topics for that verse, IMO.

In reply to me about this at the beginning of Oct. Sean said:

As to the Topics section of the passage guide: this area is still under active development, . . . . I agree that many of the current topics aren't obviously related to the
passage in question: we're still looking at ways to improve that
section.

There is improvement. When I did a PG on Heb 6:1 in the beta testing at the beginning of Oct I got these topics:

Papyrus manuscript of Paul's epistles
Papyrus manuscript of Hebrews - makes sense
Mark in Codex Vaticanus
Baptism in the Jordan River I & II - PG was not on 6:2
The Ten Plagues of Egypt 2x
Death of First Born
Akhenaton, his wife Neferti and daughter
The Nazirite vow

Whatever Akhenton and his family have to do with Heb 6:1 is beyond me!

And for Gen 45:1-15 at the end of Oct. the LARGEST PRINT topic was for "Demetrius the Chronographer"

To this Sean said

The Topics section of the Passage Guide is still under active development in several directions:

Showing a title for a topic when you don't have the resource (like Anchor) is a bug: that should be fixed in a future release.

The ranking of topics (represented by the font size) shows an
estimate of the topic's importance to the passage. This represents a
complex calculation over a lot of information, and we're still trying
to improve it (Demetrius the Chronographer is there because of an
article in the Anchor-Yale Bible Dictionary discussing his writings
Jewish history that mentions this passage)

The Topics section mixes together two kinds of information: our new managed inventory of topics
(you'll also see these at the top of some searches) linking to a key
set of dictionaries, and then other topical resources (Naves, Torrey's,
and a few more). We're working on better ways to combine these results for less clutter and more coherence.

Some topics are included that probably don't really belong, and we're still working to improve the filtering.

Also it may not be obvious that an explicit mention of
Person/Place/Thing in a passage will not generally be included in the
Topics, because we'll be able to provide much more precise information
about them in their own sections of the Passage Guide. So the primary
information about Joseph in Gen 45:1-15 is found under Biblical People (the current link there is because we haven't properly merged the information yet).

In particular, the Topics sections makes a number of trade-offs, and i'd be interested in any comments about our choices:

Some topics are widely discussed in many dictionaries (e.g. the
trinity): others (like Demetrius the Chronographer) are limited to one
or two specialized resources. Our goal is to make the broadest topics
more important, and to only include a topic if some minimum percentage
of resources link it to a passage.

Some topics are highly specific to a few passages (or even one: the Bridegroom of Blood from Exod. 4:24–26).
Others (marriage, justice) are wide-ranging, with references across the
entire Bible. Our current thought is to emphasize topics that are more
significant in the current passage.

For some topics, we have a lot of content (soldier) and for others,
much less (centurion). I'd like to emphasize topics with more content.

Your thoughts are welcomed.

and in reply to Rich DeRuiter in the same thread he said:

There are some interesting ideas here, and i appreciate your feedback.

Richard DeRuiter:

The
current approach seems to be a 'cited by' type of approach, with a
focus on topic-tagged resources that intersect with the text. Is that a
fair way to put it? What I would prefer is the reverse of this
approach, where the Biblical text is compared phrase by phrase to an
index of topics.

That's a pretty accurate statement of how Topics currently works. I
can see the merits of the reverse approach, but that requires data we
don't currently have (though we've considered it).

Richard DeRuiter:

Finally,
I'd prefer the way L3 handled resources and topics. I'd love to see the
topics grouped by resource in collapsible lists. It makes the lists
more manageable and easier to navigate (IMHO). I have Naves, but I'd
rather read what Anchor Bible or ISBE says first.

The current display groups resources by topics: rather than
collapsible lists, you see the "tag cloud" list of topics, and when you
click on one you see the individual resources down below. Apart from
whether you like a list better than a tag cloud,that seems comparable
to L3. Am i missing something? (the topics are different, of course,
but that's a different matter) Maybe you're suggested they first be
grouped by resource (all the Anchor topics together), then by topic?

By the way, my opinion is that the resources should be displayed in
priority order (they're not now): i've reported that as a bug.

So, that's why I conclude that Topics is a work in progress. But the important thing to me is they are working on it and welcome our input. Just don't expect much of value there for a while.

Chris