Disappointed
I finally upgraded to 4 from the 3 series after over a year of reminders. It runs slow. And the new interface is less than intuitive, especially the exegesis setup (closing tabs, moving the screens, etc.)
I have a i7 quad-core, 6Gb memor, and 500Gb harddrive. Plenty of speed and power and it is still slow after updates.
Very disappointed. Going back to 3 for now.
Comments
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shawn mathis said:
I finally upgraded to 4 from the 3 series after over a year of reminders. It runs slow. And the new interface is less than intuitive, especially the exegesis setup (closing tabs, moving the screens, etc.)
I have a i7 quad-core, 6Gb memor, and 500Gb harddrive. Plenty of speed and power and it is still slow after updates.
Very disappointed. Going back to 3 for now.
Hi Shawn! You are going to find both fanboys/girls of L4 as well as those who prefer Libronix 3. I am not a techie, but you do have what looks like a very fast computer. Likely L4 will remain a bit slower than you'd like, although speed has improved a lot. Some find improvement with a dedicated graphics card (you may have that) and SSD. Sometimes there are tweaks here and there, depending on your circumstance. I don't find the dropdown menus and report generation blazing fast, but decent. One thing that is a marked improvement over Lib3 are searches. That used to drive me nuts in 3.
I will say that there is a bit of a learning curve, and for about 2 months, I had my doubts, when I upgraded to 4 in 2009 if I'd catch on. I was pretty disappointed at first. I missed some L3 things and ways. I don't feel that way now. I kept both loaded, but never used L3 after some time, and finally deleted it earlier this year.
If you are open to learning (there are SO many features on L4 that are not in Libronix that can dramatically aid your researching), check out these resources:
- Logos support videos also note the user-generated videos toward the bottom. some, like Mark Barnes' help with integration of method
- This Forum--many of us are very glad to help and offer a variety of expertise and interest
- The wiki which has a lot of how-tos and some video links
- Morris Proctor Seminars (you may know of him) who offers fantastic live seminars and DVD training
- John Fallahee's Learn Logos interactive training
You may decide to stay with Libronix. It's also possible you might discover some of the fantastic things that L4 gives you, which Libronix doesn't, and choose to take advantage of that. I, for one, love their clippings feature. but so much more has happened with L4, which you can access on a variety of platforms off the same license. Perhaps others might share what made them turn fully or partially to L4.
Either way, blessings to you as you take advantage of whatever platform, library, and study tools at hand. what a blessing they are!
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Yes ... as Dan notes ... I'm a fan-girl of Libronix and the super development team that created it! I'm not so sure that people in heaven get use Libronix too!
But 'more seriously', I run on a netbook and use both. Libronix I use to read, make highlights and so forth. Fast and smooth. Logos4 I use for research (it has those big indices and so forth). One could argue neither one is intuitive; both need some time.
I just got a new PC with 'more power'. But I plan to do the same ... use both. Besides, it doubles your workspaces/layouts choices!!
And all thanks to Bob, by the way. He continues to produce resources for both. Life is definitely good.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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shawn mathis said:
I have a i7 quad-core, 6Gb memor, and 500Gb harddrive. Plenty of speed and power and it is still slow after updates.
Here are a couple of Wiki pages that discuss speeding up Logos 4:
http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly
http://wiki.logos.com/Speeding_up_Logos_4_responses
As far as the interface being "less than intuitive," this is the case for those migrating from Libronix, much more than from those new to Logos. At least that's what I've noticed on these forums. Logos4 does almost everything Libronix did, though sometimes it accomplishes the goals in a different way. Once you get the hang of it, you may find it more intuitive than Libronix. But this is learning curve stuff. At one point Libronix was new too (and it was an adjustment for me from version 2).
On speeding up Logos 4, if you have Windows7 (Vista?) make sure to disable "Tablet Input Services" as this can dramatically increase performance in Logos (not sure why).
When you say "the exegesis setup" is especially troublesome, do you mean the Exegetical Guide, or something else?(By the way, as in Libronix, if you collapse the sections in the Exegetical Guide when you close it, or only leave open those parts you're most interested in, it will open more quickly the next time.)
Also, I know how to close a tab (2 ways, actually, click the "x" or middle click on the tab), but what do you mean by "moving the screens?"
I also have in i7, 6GB RAM and > 500 GB HDD. Another factor is one's video card. A dedicated (vs. integrated) card with at least 512MB RAM is highly recommended. Also make sure your video drivers are up to date. This is important because Logos4 abandons IE as it's base code and shifts to WPF over dot NET. WPF is especially video intensive.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Denise Barnhart said:
Yes ... as Dan notes ... I'm a fan-girl of Libronix
[:D] (perhaps I was thinking only "slightly" of you . . .[;)] )
Denise Barnhart said:And all thanks to Bob, by the way. He continues to produce resources for both. Life is definitely good.
without a doubt. incredibly dedicated and generous. [Y]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I hated L4 at first, but now I use it daily and haven't used Libronix for over a year. I'm glad I stuck with L4.
Give it most of the 30 days within which they allow us to ask for a refund. My guess is you'll like it by then!
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i also have not used L3 since upgrading to L4.
I run it mainly on my netbook at home, with an external monitor. It works well, you just have to limit the number of operations it does at any one time. I have gotten use to the interface and love it.
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Shawn
I upgraded when it first came out. I haven't looked back. There are some amazing features in L4.
I highly recommend that you continue to work with it even as you go back to L3. I believe you'll find in time that you like it.
When we try something new, it takes a while to get use to new ways of doing things. There are a lot of helps on line.
The people on the forum are great about helping. You can setup a layout and not have to close and open up tabs all the time.
I still find things which I didn't know could be done with L4. I would highly recommend watching some of the videos on the Logos site
I just started viewing some webinars by John Fallahee's www. learnlogos.com Great information.
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I had a hard time getting used to Logos 4, but now I like it, but no matter what Libronix 3 is faster on the same computer! I was a hard core L3 user and I think that made it harder for me to adjust to Logos 4, I did had two strokes in the last two months and for got how to use both programs because of my strokes and now logos 4 is easier for me to relearn, I never expected that! But logos 4 will be slower than your Libronix if you can not live with that you need to send it back!!!
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I feel the same as you do. Logos 4 is way too slow for me and I love Libronix 3 and I use it every day a few times a day. I got L4 when it first came out and have hated it from the then on. I tried to get used to it but never could get past the slowness of it. I have it on my computer and keep it up to date but that's it.
My own opinion and experience.
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Denise Barnhart said:
But 'more seriously', I run on a netbook and use both. Libronix I use to read, make highlights and so forth. Fast and smooth. Logos4 I use for research (it has those big indices and so forth). One could argue neither one is intuitive; both need some time. I just got a new PC with 'more power'. But I plan to do the same ... use both. Besides, it doubles your workspaces/layouts choices!! And all thanks to Bob, by the way. He continues to produce resources for both. Life is definitely good.
I still run both. Like Nicki, I hated Logos 4 at first. After a few months my program of choice switched from Libronix 3 to Logos 4. I find both programs well worth keeping and echo my thanks for the continuing support (so far) for Libronix. I know it will eventually cease. Logos is handling the transition very gently for us Libronix fans. Limiting the Perseus Collections to Logos 4.3 and above will draw many forward. The Biblical People, Biblical Places, and Biblical Things is another winning resource that trumps Libronix.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Interesting Richard: how does one turn off the tablet input feature?
As for graphics: I have a dedicated ATI 4600 series, 1Gb memory.
The exegsis setup was not to my liking in v.3 either until I tweaked it and got the information bar trick going (hovering over greek words and getting the parsing automatically).
Closing the tabs, however, there is no X for me. The X is for the entire window not the individual tabs in each "window" (passage guide window for instance). And the windows can't seem to be arranged through the same mechanism as v.3. I'll have to look into the help file.
I am quite surprised at the number of responses. And I thank you all for your help as I take my time finding the info I need.
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shawn mathis said:
Interesting Richard: how does one turn off the tablet input feature?
This is described in the first wiki article I referred you to above.
shawn mathis said:As for graphics: I have a dedicated ATI 4600 series, 1Gb memory.
This is more than adequate, but keep your drivers up to date.
shawn mathis said:The exegsis setup was not to my liking in v.3 either until I tweaked it and got the information bar trick going (hovering over greek words and getting the parsing automatically).
You are talking about the Exegetical Guide, right? You can create your own guides and include whatever you want. The default functions of the Exegetical Guide are described in the wiki here:http://wiki.logos.com/Exegetical_Guide
To create your own Passage and/or Exegetical guide follow the instructions here: http://wiki.logos.com/Customizing_the_Passage_and_Exegetical_Guides
shawn mathis said:Closing the tabs, however, there is no X for me. The X is for the entire window not the individual tabs in each "window" (passage guide window for instance). And the windows can't seem to be arranged through the same mechanism as v.3. I'll have to look into the help file.
The "x" is on the far right of the column. I'll provide a graphic below. (Note that NICOT Is 1-39 is the name of the tab with the focus at the moment. This is not as clear on the graphic as it is on my computer. Also you can close a tab that does not have the focus using the center click of a 3-button, or wheel mouse with center-click capabilities.)
shawn mathis said:I am quite surprised at the number of responses. And I thank you all for your help as I take my time finding the info I need.
You're welcome. We're all in this together.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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All of the responses have been good and all contain good suggestions. As I glanced through, I did not see one suggestion I think all users should start with and that is the Video's that Mark Barnes produced. You can view them from this link http://www.logos4training.com/ or from the video training links on various pages of the wiki.
Before you throw in the towel on L4, take some time to look at these videos and pursue the other suggestions made in this thread. As I former L3 guy, I can tell you that once I began to uncover the power of L4 I removed L3 and cannot even remember what it looks like[;)].
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nicky crane said:
I hated L4 at first, but now I use it daily and haven't used Libronix for over a year. I'm glad I stuck with L4.
Give it most of the 30 days within which they allow us to ask for a refund. My guess is you'll like it by then!
I would agree with Nicky. You will need at least a month of dedicated L4 use before you swear by it. It is a bit different, but I think for the better.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
shawn mathis said:
The exegsis setup was not to my liking in v.3 either until I tweaked it and got the information bar trick going (hovering over greek words and getting the parsing automatically).
Logos 4 has morphological visual filtering so can highlight words based on grammatical usage. Wiki has Extended Tips for Visual Filters => Examples of visual filters that has screen shot of six Logos Greek Morphology visual filters. Personally learning visual filters can highlight range of verbal tense and mood usage in a passage. One long Greek sentence in Ephesians 1:3-14 has some present tense verbs.
Logos 4 Bible Word Study (BWS) allows transliterated entry of Greek and Hebrew words. For example => g:logos (then chose λόγος in drop down list)
Logos 4 BWS translation ring allows one translation to be clicked to show verse(s).
Logos 4 search is much faster than clicking "more" in Libronix 3 BWS Keylinks section (along with returning thousands of results).
Personal disclaimer: learned many Logos 4 features before using Libronix 3 much; currently keep both libraries up to date (primarily for comparison). Also, Libronix 3 can read older Libronix 3 PBB's. Thankful for Logos 4.3 Personal Book tool for freely creating my own personal books.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Thanks Richard. I learned something new today. Center click.Richard DeRuiter said:Also you can close a tab that does not have the focus using the center click of a 3-button, or wheel mouse with center-click capabilities.)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
Thanks Richard. I learned something new today. Center click.Richard DeRuiter said:Also you can close a tab that does not have the focus using the center click of a 3-button, or wheel mouse with center-click capabilities.)
Center click can also be called middle button (per Windows 7 set point utility). Thankful for middle button click addition in Logos 4.5 Beta 8 on Mac; personally like clicking wheel on my trackball to quickly close a resource in Logos 4 on Mac and PC.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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shawn mathis said:
I finally upgraded to 4 from the 3 series after over a year of reminders. It runs slow. And the new interface is less than intuitive, especially the exegesis setup (closing tabs, moving the screens, etc.)
The interface in version 4 was not exactly what I was looking for, but it was close. It did take some getting used to and now that I have, I won't go back. I use some other Bible software and Logos has done a pretty good job of packing a lot into the interface to make it too intuitive without cluttering it too much. Probably the biggest gripe that I have about the interface is the inability to control where windows goes... Logos decides this for you and sometimes it's where you want it, and sometimes it is not. I would like to be able to right click a hyper link and tell it to go to a zone in a workspace that I designate, including floating panels. I spend too much time shifting new windows where I want, but this may be only me.
Speed... yes, well that's an issue. It's not a hot rod by any means even on fast hardware. What I had to do was lower my expectations. I have most or all the sections in the guide pages collapsed otherwise I spent five minutes waiting for them to populate and for some reason, the section I want to look at immediately is one of the last ones to populate. So if I can click on the one that I want first, the computer is reasonable in its speed because it's the only section it is populating. I have given up using the cited by tool to follow my flow of reading from verse to verse... as it is only really useful when you want to park on reference. I also do not try to have too many windows tracking at the same time, though this is not such a big issue now that they have optimized the code.
I can't speak to the code side of things, but anecdotally, it seems that we are trying to pack a lot into Logos 4 in terms of features and of course our growing libraries. Who would have ever dreamed we would have thousands rather than hundreds of Bible resources in our BIble Programs ten years ago? Trying to build software that searches all of this on the fly through nifty tools like the Guides and the Cited by Tool is ambitious, but commendable. I don't know the life cycle of Logos 4, but in another couple of years, with SSD and other increases of computing technology, we may see most of this become a moot point. In the meantime, we live with this and I note in the forums that we continue to demand more features! Logos 4 reminds me of ACAD and other demanding software programs that require reasonably recent hardware because of its power.
Now on the Mac specific side of things... aside from speed we have a whole other whack of stability issues at the moment, but that's for another forum and thread. [:)]
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Shawn,
My advise is: Don't give up on it so soon! I remember that the first thing I really disliked was the newspaper like home page, but now that I'm used to it I see libronix home page boring. So don't dismay, give it some time and it'll grow on you. Plus, you can download your new books and add them to libronix and have the best of both worlds. Honestly, the content that you get for the money you pay is very cheap than if you were to buy those resources separately.
I upgraded to Platinum when it first came out and just working with it and how you can hoover your mouse over a word and the information pane giving you a lot of information on that word was what caught my eye -- Not to mention all the extra books like BECNT and the PNTC series. Boy I'd be lost without them.
Now, guess what I did, I purchased John Fallahee's (hopefully I got his last name right) Learn Logos CD's and they have helped me a lot. Plus, try other users home made logos videos and I'm 100% sure you will fall in love with L4. It may be just my opinion, but L4 is way superior than L3, plus you don't have to pay for Personal Book Builder on L4. I feel I wasted my money on PBB for L3 and the training videos I bought for it, but hey, at least I got it for free on L4 and that sure makes a HUGE difference!
Give it time and it won't disappoint you (as much...lol).
Blessings!
Douglas
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I, too, hated the home page when I first saw it. But when I gave it a chance I discovered certain parts of it to be very helpful. I really like having my recently downloaded resources listed. The "Book of the Day" blurb is nice. It is like asking a librarian for a one book recommendation. And it is chosen from a collection you already own. (No sales pitches here; just open it up and start reading.) Everyone in my family loves the 1000 images and color atlas photographs. I have grown to appreciate the daily devotional link (Morning & Evening.)Douglas Alvarenga said:I remember that the first thing I really disliked was the newspaper like home page, but now that I'm used to it I see libronix home page boring. So don't dismay, give it some time and it'll grow on you.
There are a lot of Pre-Pubs, Community Pricing alerts and sales events included in the home page. Many do not like that fact but I enjoy it. I am happy to see sales for things I already have because it serves as a reminder and costs me nothing. [:)] And if I don't have it, I have an additional opportunity to consider purchasing it.
We also have the choice of opening Logos 4 without displaying the home page. For a few months I used that option and would toggle to home page once a week for a peek.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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shawn mathis said:
Very disappointed. Going back to 3 for now.
Well done. Dance with the one who brung you--wife of your youth and all that stuff. [;)] Long live L3!!!
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Now, David. Shhhhh. L3 puts licenses on your PC. And keeping a close eye on IE, L3 will likely outlive L4. Let's not spill the beans.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Now, David. Shhhhh. L3 puts licenses on your PC. And keeping a close eye on IE, L3 will likely outlive L4. Let's not spill the beans.
I believe Libronix will indeed have a longer lifespan than Logos 4. When L4 graduates to L5, the user base will graduate with it. There is nowhere for the Libronix user base to go that retains what features we like about it. [:'(] When that day comes, I hope Logos will offer a DVD of all the latest Libronix files before they pull the plug on the old mare.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Well, maybe(!) I'm a little different.
My favorite music composition tool is a Roland that had met its last days when I bought it. Now, they're on eBay for almost what I paid.
There's the 1949 Steinway, still nicely tuned and great ivories. And my 1898 Steiner (style!) fiddle. Loud is not the word.
Then there's my Pfaff from 20 years ago still the best smooth and even. Plus of course my Featherweight from 1952 with a price more than a good modern machine.
My Sony media PC's from 10 years ago before they started putting all the media controls on; people search and search for the drivers now, but of course only if you have the original.
The list goes on and on. Libronix was (is) a nice piece of software. I'll be pleased to have it join all my other friends and family!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Does anyone else think it is odd that we live in a culture that is so technologically advanced that having to wait longer then 60 seconds for something to load is considered slow? I might still be in my 20's but I remember when I was impressed with the speed of a 56k modem!
Even if it took 15 minutes for Logos to do a search through all 3,000 of my books that would still be ridiculously fast compared to how long it would have taken me to do it by hand.
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Joshua Garcia said:
Does anyone else think it is odd that we live in a culture that is so technologically advanced that having to wait longer then 60 seconds for something to load is considered slow?
[Y][:)]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Joshua Garcia said:
Does anyone else think it is odd that we live in a culture that is so technologically advanced that having to wait longer then 60 seconds for something to load is considered slow?
Yes, I agree with you.I think you are 100% right.
P.S. But I like so much when I get things FAST... [:$]
Bohuslav
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"I would like to be able to right click a hyper link and tell it to go to a zone in a workspace that I designate, including floating panels. I spend too much time shifting new windows where I want, but this may be only me."
Not just you. Maybe they can be rearranged but I've not found out how yet. Too many other things to learn first.
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FWIW when I first upgraded to L4 I was not a happy camper and I still think it was released early to meet an arbitrary release date but that aside I've taken the time to learn the new software and now I'm solidly in the fan column. I've been involved in software all my life and rarely do you ever see someone happy when a major change takes place with software they use everyday, but give it some time and make the effort to learn how to use it and most likely you'll be happy you did.
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David Paul said:
Dance with the one who brung you
In my case that would be dead tree resources, a mimeograph, and an IBM Selectric II. If you are talking electronic, that would be Grammcord. No thanks. I used L3 among other resources, but today L4 is my primary resource for serious Bible Study.
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nicky crane said:
I hated L4 at first, but now I use it daily and haven't used Libronix for over a year. I'm glad I stuck with L4.
Give it most of the 30 days within which they allow us to ask for a refund. My guess is you'll like it by then!
[Y]
Amen!
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In my experience Logos loads and is ready to use in about 17 seconds. If I am just restarting it without a system reboot it only takes about 8 seconds. The response of the software after it is loaded is very fast and responsive. By comparison, I have video editing software (Pinnacle Studio Ultimate HD 15) that takes 27 seconds to load the first time after boot-up.
My system is not state of the art by a long shot. Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400, 4 Gig of RAM, EVGA GT-240 1 gig video card. I have 4 Terabytes of storage across four drives. (A two terabyte, a one terabyte and two 500 gig drives).
So I am a little puzzled as to why an I7 quad core with 6 gig would run slow. Of course if Shawn only has the one 500 gig drive that would slow things some since his page file is on the same drive as Logos. And we all know that there are a myriad of factors that affect performance.
Just curious.
It may just be a matter of peception because it is being compared to Libronix. But there again I don't remember seeing a huge difference in speed between Libronix and Logos 4. I may reinstall Libronix (removed it months ago) just to do a comparison. After all, I do have an over 60 memory that doesn't work as well as it used to. [:)] And I don't do a lot of the huge searches that many others seem to do.
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I recently upgraded from 32-bit Vista to 64-bit Vista and I can see a clear performance improvement, particularly in doing searches (the majority of which are L3 searches). They may not be twice as fast, but they seem like they could be.
Just in case anyone is wondering why I didn't just upgrade to Win7, the upgrade option was free for me and was occasioned by replacing a failed hard drive.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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