Day 5: Orthodoxy by G. K. Chesterton
Is this a Catholic resource?
Comments
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Noticed inclusion in several Logos bundles:
Catholic Scripture Study Library
Basic search for "Catholic Church" finds 3 results in Orthodoxy while a search for Pope found a couple results, including use in this paragraph:
I wished to be quite fair then, and I wish to be quite fair now; and I did not conclude that the attack on Christianity was all wrong. I only concluded that if Christianity was wrong, it was very wrong indeed. Such hostile horrors might be combined in one thing, but that thing must be very strange and solitary. There are men who are misers, and also spendthrifts; but they are rare. There are men sensual and also ascetic; but they are rare. But if this mass of mad contradictions really existed, quakerish and bloodthirsty, too gorgeous and too thread-bare, austere, yet pandering preposterously to the lust of the eye, the enemy of women and their foolish refuge, a solemn pessimist and a silly optimist, if this evil existed, then there was in this evil something quite supreme and unique. For I found in my rationalist teachers no explanation of such exceptional corruption. Christianity (theoretically speaking) was in their eyes only one of the ordinary myths and errors of mortals. They gave me no key to this twisted and unnatural badness. Such a paradox of evil rose to the stature of the supernatural. It was, indeed, almost as supernatural as the infallibility of the Pope. An historic institution, which never went right, is really quite as much of a miracle as an institution that cannot go wrong. The only explanation which immediately occurred to my mind was that Christianity did not come from heaven, but from hell. Really, if Jesus of Nazareth was not Christ, He must have been Antichrist.
Chesterton, G. K. (2010). Orthodoxy. (164–165). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
By the way, the last paragraph has something to ponder.
Note: a Bible search for Jesus WITHIN 16 WORDS (laugh, laughter, mirth, merry, smile) finds nothing.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Joshua Garcia said:
Is this a Catholic resource?
Technically it was written while he was still High Anglican (Anglo-Catholic) i.e. before he was (unmodified) Catholic. But for all intents and purposes it is Catholic.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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GK Chesterton was a Christian writer and apologist from the early part of the 1900s. He did convert to Catholicism towards the end of his life (1922... he died in 1936), I don't think I would classify Orthodoxy as a "Catholic" resource. It is a classic apologetics work that has inspired many (such as CS Lewis) of all faiths.
Note this quote from Wikipedia:
Philip Yancey said that if he were "stranded on a desert island ... and could choose only one book apart from the Bible, I may well select Chesterton's own spiritual autobiography, Orthodoxy."
I haven't checked out the price for the sale... its a volume that is public domain and available free elsewhere, and I have it in my library already.
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Thanks.
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EmileB said:
I haven't checked out the price for the sale... its a volume that is public domain and available free elsewhere, and I have it in my library already.
Well, the price seems to be very affordable: $0,99 if I saw that correct.
I actually paid more (some months ago in my pre-Logos-life...) to have paper versions of "Orthodoxy" as well as "Heretics" and "the Everlasting Man" - albeit having some files on my harddrive. Now the first two came with the Catholic Library Builder - nice.
EmileB said:I don't think I would classify Orthodoxy as a "Catholic" resource. It is a classic apologetics work that has inspired many (such as CS Lewis) of all faiths.
I wouldn't call Chesterton's books "Catholic" with a big C, either (those I know, at least). Classic christian apologetics, yes - but Chesterton had a very unique way of reasoning, which sometimes is more humorizing and inspiring to think outside the box than rationally convincing, so to speak. To prepare for a debate it is probably more prudent to sit with coffee, a notepad and Geisler, Kreeft or Lewis, whereas reading Chesterton may call for a glass of your favorite beverage - then enjoy!
For those who don't know him, this is surely a good bargain.
Have joy in the Lord!
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I am one protestant who loves Chesterton - the "Apostle of Common Sense." He reminds me of C. S. Lewis, only with a much sharper wit and sense of humor. (I love C. S. Lewis, of course.)
While there may be some points where I disagree with Chesterton, I believe he is the best apologist for Christianity who ever lived.
He makes me smile, sometimes laugh out loud, and sometimes laugh at myself.
Here are a few Chesterton quotes to catch the flavor of the man. He grows on you.
In reply to an article about What's Wrong With the World , Chesterton wrote: “Dear Sir: Regarding your article 'What's Wrong with the World?' I am. Yours truly, G. K. Chesteron”
“The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people.”
“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”
“Love means to love that which is unlovable; or it is no virtue at all.”
“Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about. All democrats object to men being disqualified by the accident of birth; tradition objects to their being disqualified by the accident of death.”
“If there were no God, there would be no atheists.”
“It is absurd for the Evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that it is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything.”
“Fairy tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.”
An oft repeated quote, seldom attributed to G. K.: “Just going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car.”
“The word "good" has many meanings. For example, if a man were to shoot his grandmother at a range of five hundred yards, I should call him a good shot, but not necessarily a good man.”
“I am not absentminded. It is the presence of mind that makes me unaware of everything else.”
“Because children have abounding vitality, because they are in spirit fierce and free, therefore they want things repeated and unchanged. They always say, "Do it again"; and the grown-up person does it again until he is nearly dead. For grown-up people are not strong enough to exult in monotony. But perhaps God is strong enough to exult in monotony. It is possible that God says every morning, "Do it again" to the sun; and every evening, "Do it again" to the moon. It may not be automatic necessity that makes all daisies alike; it may be that God makes every daisy separately, but has never got tired of making them. It may be that He has the eternal appetite of infancy; for we have sinned and grown old, and our Father is younger than we.”
He wrote some wonderful detective stories too.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Awesome ! Thanks Logos !
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EmileB said:
Note this quote from Wikipedia:
Philip Yancey said that if he were "stranded on a desert island ... and could choose only one book apart from the Bible, I may well select Chesterton's own spiritual autobiography, Orthodoxy."
Good to know! Mr. Yancey is one of my favorite writers. And from other comments in this thread, I think I will have to add Orthodoxy to my reading list.
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Although I love much of Chesterton's work, fair warning! Much of his verbiage is couched in 19th century culture. Many Logos users may also struggle with his uniquely British humor (or humour), the flowery writing style of that era, and propensity to string several thoughts together in a single sentence. If, however, you easily cruise through Spurgeon, or even Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, then you're going to love Chesterton!
"I read dead people..."
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Brother Mark said:
Although I love much of Chesterton's work, fair warning! Much of his verbiage is couched in 19th century culture. Many Logos users may also struggle with his uniquely British humor (or humour), the flowery writing style of that era, and propensity to string several thoughts together in a single sentence.
Hmmmm. You have made me reflect. Perhaps you are right, Brother Mark. My love for G. K. Chesterton may result from having lived most of my life in the previous century and my refusal to participate (in many ways) in this century. I haven't liked any song recorded since 1975, for example. I still mostly listen to Buddy Holly. My cell phone ring tone is "O Boy!"
On the other hand, my church's largest group would be the Young Adults - (ages 20-30 something). They are where our growth has taken place,and they include me in all their socials. So I forget that I am an old goat. Just last week, I invited a young couple to our church with the words, "You would love our church. There are lots of people our age." My wife poked me in the ribs and whispered, "They are NOT your age."
So I accept your poke in my ribs - so to speak - and aknowledge that I love the "old" wit of Chesterton. And I love Spurgeon and Arthur Conan Doyle, too. And they make me think, and it is good for an old brain to think. However, my enthusiasm for Chesterton should be tempered with Brother Mark's accurate warning. And you do have to sometimes dig a bit through his writings to find the diamonds.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Wow! Does it concern anyone else that we would have any need for such a disclaimer? Has our culture sunk so low that an author who died only in 1936 is too obtuse and inaccessible to recommend without reservation? Is our generation that unable to think and process the written word? I guess that means we can't recommend anything pre... what? 1980? 1990? That will take a pretty big bite out of the Logos library, for sure... like more than 95 % would be my guess...
Oh, and I suppose that means we better not recommend a little book called "The Bible".... much of the verbiage, after all, is couched in first century language. And many Logos users may also struggle with Jesus' uniquely Palestinian humor, the flowering writing style of the psalmist, and the propensity of Paul to string several (complicated) thoughts together in a single (very long) sentence!
Please don't be offended dear Brother Mark, I'm just teasing!!! I know you don't mean to imply ANY of these things and were, as usual, seeking (and likely succeeding) to be helpful, and I think, hope and pray that you were for lots of folks. It just got me thinking, is all, especially after that old fossil Mike chimed in (AM REALLY TEASING HERE, MIKE!!!! I'm with you 1000% You're one of my favorite posters. Really!!!!)
But our culture does so much tend to dismiss any wisdom older than the last sound bite, or anything that might take some effort to read and digest, doesn't it?
All meant with humor, brothers and sisters!!!
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Emile ... interesting humorous question. I routinely read Westcott and don't 'detect' an earlier century ... he's seems quite 'modern'. Maybe it's the verboseness that we're impatient with?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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EmileB said:
But our culture does so much tend to dismiss any wisdom older than the last sound bite, or anything that might take some effort to read and digest, doesn't it?
All meant with humor, brothers and sisters!!!
[Y]
Furthermore, my seven grandkids and my dog think this old fossil is one cool dude!
By the way there is a very good TV program about G. K. Chesterton that runs on the Catholic channel on Dish Satellite. This old Methodist records it on his DVR. The guy who imitates Chesterton is very good.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Michael Childs said:
By the way there is a very good TV program about G. K. Chesterton that runs on the Catholic channel on Dish Satellite. This old Methodist records it on his DVR. The guy who imitates Chesterton is very good.
Thanks Michael for letting us know about this series, I get ETWN on my cable so I added this to my DVR. I ended up getting Orthodoxy (hey $.99 on Logos) and will likely use some of my Christmas Credit to get Heretics. So I was interested in learning more about G.K. Chesterton.
If anyone is interested in a free audiobook of Chesterton's works (they are not professional, but they are not bad) you can check out Librivox (they have other public domain books). If you have an iPad or iPhone there are several apps that make it possible to download them. I downloaded Orthodoxy, Heretics, and Eugenics and Other Evils last night. So if you wanted to be able to read Othodoxy on Logos/Vyrso and listen to it at the same time, this is a very economical option.
Blessings,
Philana
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EmileB said:
Wow! Does it concern anyone else that we would have any need for such a disclaimer? Has our culture sunk so low that an author who died only in 1936 is too obtuse and inaccessible to recommend without reservation? Is our generation that unable to think and process the written word? I guess that means we can't recommend anything pre... what? 1980? 1990? That will take a pretty big bite out of the Logos library, for sure... like more than 95 % would be my guess...
Oh, and I suppose that means we better not recommend a little book called "The Bible".... much of the verbiage, after all, is couched in first century language. And many Logos users may also struggle with Jesus' uniquely Palestinian humor, the flowering writing style of the psalmist, and the propensity of Paul to string several (complicated) thoughts together in a single (very long) sentence!
Please don't be offended dear Brother Mark, I'm just teasing!!! I know you don't mean to imply ANY of these things and were, as usual, seeking (and likely succeeding) to be helpful, and I think, hope and pray that you were for lots of folks. It just got me thinking, is all, especially after that old fossil Mike chimed in (AM REALLY TEASING HERE, MIKE!!!! I'm with you 1000% You're one of my favorite posters. Really!!!!)
But our culture does so much tend to dismiss any wisdom older than the last sound bite, or anything that might take some effort to read and digest, doesn't it?
All meant with humor, brothers and sisters!!!
OUCH! [:$] Emile... I agree with every single point (and your gentle sarcasm had me laughing at myself!)... and yet, I stand behind my disclaimers. Alas, a double-minded man... unstable in all his ways!
"I read dead people..."
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