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Disappointed

Rick King

I have the Scholar's package on Logos 4 and have added some free resources and a set of paid books. I know this thing is capable of doing a lot but I am very frustrated with it. Maybe it is just the Mac interface, but I am about to just give up using this altogether. I have used L3 before and was able to find things in searches with that but in L4, I am completely lost. I have looked at some videos out there on the internet on how to use it but it just confused me more for the most part. I have found other free programs that have been adapted to run on the Mac like e-Sword and The Word. e-Sword wasn't really free as you have to spend 40 bucks on a program that sort of works on whatever it feels like working on other programs besides e-Sword but.... it is still far cheaper than 550 bucks. With software you can't use, you can sell it on ebay or craigslist and get some of your money back. Is there a way to sell your Logos package to somebody or did I just light 500 dollars on fire and watch it burn? Everything to add to this program costs as much as double what I can get it for in print edition (new). How do I go about reversing the horrible mistake I made in buying something that is far too complicated for me to use?

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John Wetzig

Rick, don't give up too quickly. I've been using the Logos stuff since before Logos bought it from CDWord, and it is an awesome, valuable tool. Take the time to learn it (not so terribly long), and you'll be richly blessed.

Wes Saad

Rick,

First, I would encourage you to keep learning the software. Many others have gone through initial frustration only to eventually understand and even appreciate the way the program works. Like any software, this one takes time to learn. Stick with it and you will find it rewarding.

However, if you decide you just can't adjust to the interface, contact Logos' customer support. Depending on when you made your purchase, they have a pretty generous refund policy. All you can do is call them and ask! You can find contact information here: http://www.logos.com/about/contact

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I have the Scholar's package on Logos 4 and have added some free resources and a set of paid books. I know this thing is capable of doing a lot but I am very frustrated with it. Maybe it is just the Mac interface, but I am about to just give up using this altogether. I have used L3 before and was able to find things in searches with that but in L4, I am completely lost. I have looked at some videos out there on the internet on how to use it but it just confused me more for the most part.

Welcome [:D]

Logos 4 does have a bit of a learning curve to becoming proficient. Curious about frustrating searches, please elaborate, would be glad to try to replicate. Also wonder what appears confusing ?

Likewise wonder if previously used Logos 1 for Mac or Libronix 3 on Windows ? Compared to previous versions, Logos 4 combined three search fields (Go!) on Home Page into one Go box, which can be used for Passage, Word, or Topic searches.

Personally have found Logos 4 searches to be noticeably faster than Libronix 3 plus finding more results in my Logos library so have learned how to look for articles vis every word occurrence.

These Logos forums have many users that are glad to share tips and answer questions about how to use Logos Bible Software. Personally have learned a lot about Logos 4 from numerous forum discussions, wiki pages, reading lists, and blog articles.

For learning Logos, wiki has => Getting Started with Logos that includes => Search with Tips and links.

In 2009, Logos changed licensing to pay once for resources, then use on as many electronic devices as you desire with the software being free. Thankful for many, many free software upgrades with improvements to use with a digital library.

Logos has a blog article for resource bargain hunting => http://blog.logos.com/2011/07/how-to-find-a-bargain-on-logos-com/ In the past month, have added 21 Vyrso resources to my Logos library for $ 0.00; many Vryso December Deals are still available => http://vyrso.com/december

With software you can't use, you can sell it on ebay or craigslist and get some of your money back. Is there a way to sell your Logos package to somebody or did I just light 500 dollars on fire and watch it burn? Everything to add to this program costs as much as double what I can get it for in print edition (new). How do I go about reversing the horrible mistake I made in buying something that is far too complicated for me to use?

Suggest contacting Logos Customer Service => http://www.logos.com/about/contact since not know if refund is possible (nominally 30 days). Resource license transfer(s) are $ 20 each (for 1 to all resources). Caveat: Logos forum guidelines request that offering your Logos resource license(s) for sale be done somewhere else. Resource licenses have value, but the software does not since all current Logos applications are free to download. To use many features in free software does need appropriate resource licenses.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Rick King

Thanks for all the quick responses. I am well past 30 days... it has been months so I wasn't expecting any kind of refund. I was just curious if there was any way to sell should I want to. Someone mentioned a 20 dollar fee to transfer a license and that seems fair enough. Should I decide to attempt to do this, I wouldn't use the logos forums to do so, that would be rather tacky. That would be the same as walking into a store and selling an item the store is selling for less money and taking their business away. I was just fishing for options. I've used Libronix 3 on Windoze before. One of the huge problems I have in searching is that i got this lectionary thing for free and when i search for something, I get miles of results from this lectionary thing. I'm not Catholic and have not even the remotest fondness for that organization. (don't get me started there) I have no idea how to rid myself of this millstone around my neck. Once free of that, I am still lost on searches as with Lib 3, I just typed in the passage I wanted commentary on and blammo, I get a whole gob of stuff to sift through. I tried calling in this morning to see about some of these upgrade specials to see if maybe I just don't have enough stuff to get commentary results. They are having this huge upgrade special... you get 100 percent of what you paid against 15 percent off the new package price. I was voicing a bit of concern over numerous things like how safe investing in all this electronic media that is stored in a cloud someplace for a small fortune and so on. I was expecting an email back explaining the differences that I never got. I was just finishing my rationale for stockpiling printed and electronic books while I still could. I heard the guy on the phone say something to somebody in the background and then he just hung up on me and I never did get the email. So, I imagine this place is like everywhere else. You get so many minutes on the phone and if you don't whip out a credit card fast enough, you get the hook dropped on you since you are adversely affecting their call stats.
So, I guess there are two main problems. One is getting the resource out of my way and the other is maybe I just didn't spend enough. Generally, when something doesn't work, throwing a lot more money at it sometimes gets results. It is either that or cutting your losses and abandoning ship. I think the first thing would be to get that resource out of my way so perhaps I can find something and secondly to be able to figure out how to properly use this so I can determine if I got enough stuff under the hood. The clock is ticking and I only have til jan 2 to figure out if the upgrade will help things or not.
If I do go the upgrade path, what would somebody suggest? I mostly am looking for passage guides/commentaries. I have scholar's so I am looking at gold, silver or platinum. The portfolio is way overkill, I think. Suggestions and rationale on which of the three to pick most welcome. I am not overly bright and trying to follow the dots on that comparison chart makes my head hurt. Which of the three levels will give me the most bang for the buck? Past experience in sales/marketing would initial lead me to go with silver or gold as generally the top end causes people to ratchet down a step but then again... the portfolio could be the kicker to get you ratcheted down to platinum.... I should stop thinking so hard... I hurt myself every time I do that....

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314736#Comment_314736

One of the huge problems I have in searching is that i got this lectionary thing for free and when i search for something, I get miles of results from this lectionary thing.

One option is "hiding" lectionary resources. Wiki has => Hiding Books

After "hiding" resource(s) and restarting Logos 4, the "hidden" resource file(s) are deleted locally, including removal from indexing and search results.

Another option: Home Page customization has a checkbox for Lectionary, which can be unchecked so Lectionary does not appear in your Home Page ribbon.

Once free of that, I am still lost on searches as with Lib 3, I just typed in the passage I wanted commentary on and blammo, I get a whole gob of stuff to sift through.

Personally have prioritized my commentaries in my Library, including two commentary series in my Top 5 Bibles. Wiki has Getting Started with Logos => Prioritize Library When reading a Bible, I can => right click then click reference, then open one of my Top preferred commentary series. When I want more commentary on that verse: click on commentary tab (focus), then click "+" to right of commentary within panel, a list of commentaries that have verse appears, then click desired commentary.

Passage Guide and Cited By are very helpful when searching for verse references. Wiki has Getting Started with Logos => Cited By with Tips. Cited By can search within collections, series, mytag: and rating: groups for verse reference. Clicking "more >>" in Cited By opens a Search tab to show all results within that collection. Wiki has Getting Started with Logos => Collections

Logos 4 Cited By is similar to Libronix 3 Reference Browser (albeit much faster).

A Logos 4 Passage Guide can have many commentary sections, each using a different collection:

Creating collections for various kinds of commentaries allows Passage Guide sections to be collapsed/expanded as desired. In contrast, Libronix 3 Passage Guide has one section for all commentaries. Forum thread has commentary grouping insights => Tip: Categorize your commentaries

Also can have commentary collection in a Passage Guide collection section so can find all references to a passage, which is similar to Cited By search.

I was voicing a bit of concern over numerous things like how safe investing in all this electronic media that is stored in a cloud someplace for a small fortune and so on.

Thankful Logos 4 downloads licensed resource files to my computer, which can be used without any internet access. Likewise Thankful for Logos servers, where can sync Logos 4 settings from one computer to another, including Mac and PC.

I have scholar's so I am looking at gold, silver or platinum. The portfolio is way overkill, I think. Suggestions and rationale on which of the three to pick most welcome.

Pastor Mark Barnes recently replied with a base package buyer's guide summary for seminary students => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/42199/314405.aspx#314405

My favorite commentary series, United Bible Society (UBS) Handbooks, is included in Scholar's Gold; wiki Logos Resource Reviews has => UBS New Testament Handbook Series and => UBS Old Testament Handbook Series The UBS handbooks do not need original language mastery to appreciate insights about how to translate main point in a verse for others to understand; also includes comparison of many English translations.

Personally have Scholar's Platinum plus additional resource purchases.

Which of the three levels will give me the most bang for the buck?

Honestly depends on value of resources to you.

Keep Smiling [:)]

EmileB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314736#Comment_314736

Rick, I REALLY appreciate your frustration... but may I add a bit of encouragement?

I was VERY much in your situation with L4. I had been in with Logos since its inception, and never really took the time to learn what I had very well. Then L4 came, and WOW! was I lost. Even what I knew how to do seemed confusing. But I had invested way too much to back out at that point... and I am SO GLAD I didn't.

Logos provides SO much more than other programs. The number of resources available are second to none, and what you can do with them is unparalleled. I have had my concerns/issues with Logos, but they revolve around changes in marketing... not with their product. I think ultimately you would regret bailing out if you ere able to come to realize what you have.

Please rest assured, that every one of your concerns can be easily fixed. Here's what I did... and I can't tell you how much it helped. When i did these things, suddenly the software started making more sense. You can use Logos as simply or as complex as you want... very very few use Logos to its full potential. The first thing I would do in your shoes would be to look at the official training videos for Mac on the Logos site... I downloaded them... Once I watched these, light bulbs started going on and I tried some things, and even though I was only a babe, even the 1% I knew was awesome. I became very excited. The next step might be to watch Mark Barnes' unofficial videos... also very excellent.

Then, on the website, there is a Getting Started section... and doing these things REALLY makes a difference... things like setting up collections, prioritizing, etc. If you do these things, I think you will really start to have a different perspective. The website has excellent links to helps/wikis, etc. The forums are FULL of help. There's just a lot here, and it does take a bit of time. But trust those of us who are trying to encourage you that it will be worth the effort.

Again, many of us really and truly sympathize, having been where you are. But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to run Logos, or a computer geek, or a Greek/Hebrew guru... it will meet you where you are. Try to be a bit more patient, try taking some of the steps I and others have outlined, hang out here in the forums for a while, browse through the wiki, watch the videos etc. Try to relax and not become overwhelmed. It will come. Just take it one day at a time.

Very best wishes, and welcome.

PS. I don't know what collection of resources you currently have, so its hard to know what to suggest. I found Scholar's Silver or Gold to be quite a full set of resources, but I'd also bought a lot of individual titles through the years. I currently have Platinum, which is more than most folks need, in my opinion. Portfolio, as you say, is way overkill for most people, unless you are a specialist or like padding your library. But it all depends on your background and interests.

Rick King

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314751#Comment_314751

I will attempt to hide the resource.... but trust me, I will probably end up wiping the entire library out somehow... as I said... I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.... and to be honest I was having trouble keeping up with the prioritizing thing.... I better stick with very simple. This might be over my head altogether. I understand how to walk to the bookshelf and get a commentary, I have several I have collected. I've tried my best over the years to get into ebooks and electronic media but it all so alien and so hard to use for me. Maybe i am just too old and too stupid to ever be able to get it. I'll keep trying, though. I've been fighting with this thing since the end of August and have gotten not very far. I'll keep beating my head into the table for a couple more weeks. I've got to Jan 2 to figure the whole thing out. Thanks for the link to hide that one book. That is really driving me batty. I can't find anything when I look for it for some reason. Everything on the internet has gotten so complicated and impossible to figure out over the last 15 years. I miss the way it was.

Rick King

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314754#Comment_314754

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314764#Comment_314764

Hi Rick

Links to the Logos videos and Mark's videos can be found at http://wiki.logos.com/

They are (respectively):

This page also has access to a wide range of guides and hints to more effectively using Logos software - such as the "How do I? section (http://wiki.logos.com/How_do_I_$2e$2e$2e)

Hope this helps

Graham

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314764#Comment_314764

I don't suppose anyone has links to the unofficial and official videos

http://www.logos.com/videos/mac

Rick King

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314767#Comment_314767

@ I'll see how those videos go after I get some sleep. It's almost dawn and time to call it quits until later when I stumble forth. Thanks again for the links.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314771#Comment_314771

Eventually I will figure out how to get a search window up to type a passage in.

Option: can click Tools menu, then Passage Guide:

After randomly clicking things somehow I can magically get a search box and voila... I try not to close it when it opens as I will most likely not find it again.

Libronix 3 had Search menu; Logos 4 has a Search icon, which looks like a magnifying glass:

Libronix 3 Search menu had many menu choices; Logos 4 has several Search buttons for Basic, Bible, Morph, and Syntax.

Wiki has Getting Started with Logos => Search with Tips and links, including several wiki pages with lots of search information.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Michael McLane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314774#Comment_314774

My apologies to the community. I do not normally post unless I have a complaint (right now my complaint is with the glacial speed of the current Mac beta, I am praying it is optimized before the final release. Smooth, predictable scrolling. Not a lot to ask.). See, I still had to get one in. [:'(]

However, this time I must say thank you! I have learned much from this thread this morning.

Ward Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314774#Comment_314774

I was a casual user of Logos prior to V4. To me, V3 was so unintuitively tailorable and complexly configurable (and you had to in order to get it to work well) I nearly didn't buy V4--but I needed help in some stuff I was teaching and I'd dorked up V3 so badly it was nearly non-functional. Mark Barnes' videos were eye-opening for me, and *really* helped me figure out how to put the software to work for me, rather than vice versa. The wiki has been of some use too--especially when I don't want to search across videos for a tip.

I'd add that Logos has a wide enough user base that there may be a "power" user geographically near you, and forming a local user group might prove helpful--sometimes looking over someones shoulder is the fastest way to learn. I held an "electronic bible study tools" seminar at my church, and was surprised that people from churches around showed up because they wanted to learn Logos better--and that was just word of mouth. If I could unbusy myself, I think it would be fun to have a "small group" of Logosites and peruse the Bible/topics together using the software. If the licensing changes some day so that I could buy a multi-use copy for my youth sunday school class, I'd love to set them loose in teams for about a half hour on a text or topic and then have each team present what it learned for 15 min--would be interesting to see where they go.

WRT resources, I don't know that buying more resources is a good idea until you get the hang of dealing with search results. As your library grows, it becomes trickier to find stuff in it. Logos made huge headway with search between V3 and V4, but given the large number of resources they now support I suspect that they will need to revolutionize search yet again--sort of like the difference between Google Search and IBM Watson...what I'm after is "find"

Dennis Parish

Rick,

I just started using Logos this November. Right now the only thing I know how to do is to buy more books[;)]

I have read a lot of the posts on the forum. I found this string a helpful discussion on learning aids: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/8271/65697.aspx#65697 . (You'll find you aren't the only one who gets frustrated ).

If like me you like to read/refer to the manual, tips included Printing the Help File and Purchasing the Logos 4 Manuals by Morris Proctor (http://www.mpseminars.com/shop/logos-training/logos-manuals/ ). These were highly praised. [Buy from Logos for the Christmas Credit!]

In the immortal words of SuperTramp, "There will always be another sale." Don't let the Jan 2 sale end distract you from the Advent.

Dennis

Rick King

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314878#Comment_314878

I am not big on social groups, actually I can't be in crowds at all. I belong to a little church that has about a dozen people on Sunday. Nobody else there uses Logos. I think there are a couple of PC Study Bible people there. Outside of the people there that I see on Sunday and on Weds I don't usually see anyone else except for when I go to the store or have occasion to ask the next door neighbor for help moving something to big for me to carry alone (and I tend to overextend a bad back way too much in order to avoid even that contact). I have no family left to speak of outside of our little church and so I go online in search of help and answers. Therein lies the other problem as I tend to find more dead links and wrong pages than anything else whenever I search. These videos are good and of some help. I will keep praying on it but I am leaning towards major expansion. I won't get a better deal than right now to upgrade and another thousand bucks would be well spent with 250 coming back to me to spend on more stuff! I could get really crazy and get the portfolio but that's a lot of extra money. Then again, I would be getting half the cost of it back in additional resources. I thought about that for a minute and had the first good laugh of the day. If you have the portfolio, you already have most all of the resources. You would be really hard pressed to find more. I am thinking Platinum. Thank you for all the kind words of encouragement and links to sources of help. I'm still hopelessly afloat in the ocean but at least I am not drowning anymore. This life preserver is a true blessing.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/314971#Comment_314971

If you have the portfolio, you already have most all of the resources.

Sorting Logos.com products by highest price includes many resource bundles not in Portfolio:

http://www.logos.com/products/search?start=0&sort=pricehi&pageSize=30

The Portfolio base package has 1,600 resources while Logos has thousands more. Including Vyrso, suspect current number of resources available for use in Logos 4 is close to 20,000.

Keep Smiling [:)]