Commentary on Isaiah
Comments
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Joshua Garcia said:5 Solas said:
So, are you are still offering animal sacrifices ...?
Are you seriously asking this? What covenant do you think I am under??
Wasn't asking you -but George, who is misinterpreting Matt. 5
Yours In Christ
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Sorry...I'm getting too emotionally involved now. I will step out because of forum rules.
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Joshua Garcia said:
Sorry...I'm getting too emotionally involved now. I will step out because of forum rules.
Joshua I should have addressed my post more properly, saying "George " .... So it was my fault....
Please do not leave, as your insights have been helpful and me thinks more will be needed ....
Yours In Christ
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5 Solas said:
So, are you are still offering animal sacrifices ...?
Ha, ha. I told you there was a progression in revelation. The sacrificial terminology is used for Jesus' death, but that is not the only terminology used. Consider
Re 5.9-10
ἄξιος εἶ λαβεῖν τὸ βιβλίον καὶ ἀνοῖξαι τὰς σφραγῖδας αὐτοῦ,
ὅτι ἐσφάγης καὶ ἠγόρασας τῷ θεῷ ἐν τῷ αἵματί σου
ἐκ πάσης φυλῆς καὶ γλώσσης καὶ λαοῦ καὶ ἔθνους10 καὶ ἐποίησας αὐτοὺς τῷ θεῷ ἡμῶν βασιλείαν καὶ ἱερεῖς,
καὶ βασιλεύσουσιν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς.Here it is pictured as a financial transaction—Jesus by his death purchased the Church.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:5 Solas said:
So, are you are still offering animal sacrifices ...?
Ha, ha. I told you there was a progression in revelation. The sacrificial terminology is used for Jesus' death, but that is not the only terminology used. Consider
ἄξιος εἶ λαβεῖν τὸ βιβλίον καὶ ἀνοῖξαι τὰς σφραγῖδας αὐτοῦ,
ὅτι ἐσφάγης καὶ ἠγόρασας τῷ θεῷ ἐν τῷ αἵματί σου
ἐκ πάσης φυλῆς καὶ γλώσσης καὶ λαοῦ καὶ ἔθνους10 καὶ ἐποίησας αὐτοὺς τῷ θεῷ ἡμῶν βασιλείαν καὶ ἱερεῖς,
καὶ βασιλεύσουσιν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς.Here it is pictured as a financial transaction—Jesus by his death purchased the Church.
George, that does not answer the question! All has not been fulfilled yet, so are you still doing animal sacrifices ...? Yes or no?
Yours In Christ
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5 Solas said:
George, that does not answer the question! All has not been fulfilled yet, so are you still doing animal sacrifices ...? Yes or no?
Are you deliberately trying to be redicalicalous?
6
With what shall I approach the Lord, Do homage to God on high? Shall I approach Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old?7Would the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, With myriads of streams of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, The fruit of my body for my sins?8"He has told you, O man, what is good, And what the Lord requires of you: Only to do justice And to love goodness, And to walk modestly with your God;9Then will your name achieve wisdom."george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:5 Solas said:
George, that does not answer the question! All has not been fulfilled yet, so are you still doing animal sacrifices ...? Yes or no?
Are you deliberately trying to be redicalicalous?
6
With what shall I approach the Lord,
Do homage to God on high?
Shall I approach Him with burnt offerings,
With calves a year old?
7Would the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
With myriads of streams of oil?
Shall I give my first-born for my transgression,
The fruit of my body for my sins?
8"He has told you, O man, what is good,
And what the Lord requires of you:
Only to do justice
And to love goodness,
And to walk modestly with your God;
9Then will your name achieve wisdom."George, thank you for finally disagreeing with your other post expounding your interpretation on Matt 5:17-18, saying:
I would say that it means exactly what it says. The problem is that some seem unable or unwilling to understand its meaning and to live according to it.
Thanks for letting us know that the application of the law has changed. Of course I'm being facetious, as I know you will not acknowledge the truth until enabled to do so (2 Tim 2:24-26). Please read the article (brief) at: http://thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/40010
Yours In Christ
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Paul Newsome said:Andrew McKenzie said:
I am not sure if this is of any help, you may have already come across it:
great link Andrew... now I've got to check the links for other books!
Looking at product page, noticed Tyndale Commentaries (49 vols.) not mentioned:
For years, community bidding had => Barnes' Notes on the Old and New Testaments (26 vols.)
More recently, another community pricing resource shipped => The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (58 vols.)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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5 Solas said:
Thanks for letting us know that the application of the law has changed. Again, please read the article (brief) at: http://thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/40010
What is redicalicalous?
I don't think I need to read a dissertation attempting to establish that a passage means something other than what it says. The law has not changed. We have simply learned to live according to its intent.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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We need some basic Toulmin argument mapping in Logos.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Has anyone used:
Barry, John D. The Resurrected Servant in Isaiah. Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010.
I picked it up when it was in pre-pub, but I have not yet read it. Here is a random screenshot:
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MJ. Smith said:
We need some basic Toulmin argument mapping in Logos.
I think you need to explain that, MJ—I had to look it up myself.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
....
I wouldn't trust Young to take out the garbage. His introduction was so annoying that I was tempted to throw it against the wall. I would suggest Sweeny's work on Is 1-39 in the FOTL series. ..............
You haven't been paying attention. I'm not a premillennialist. I'm amillenial. I don't like Young because he's an idiot.
George, Argumentum ad Hominem????? George, you have over 4,000 posts. You certainly should know better by now than to post in this fashion. Such posting offends me greatly. I also remember countless posts of yours in the old newsgroups of a similar tenor. Almost it seems to deliberately provoke controversy in the "group."
Contrary to the Logos Forums Guidelines you have gone way over the line. I am truly offended that you could and would be so "contrary." If I wanted to be facetious - which really I don't - I might be tempted to state that such comments that you have made are "idiotic." But, tempted as I am, I realise that to do so would make me a card-carrying member of your club. To be honest, I regret that I really wanted to do so -- in anger -- and in spades!
Suffice it to say that I request that you: Please consider an apology if that is not too hard for you to do.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Suffice it to say that I request that you: Please consider an apology if that is not too hard for you to do.
I never apologize for telling the truth. You may consider that I posted to provoke controversey, but I rather posted, after seeing high praise for Young, to warn that Young's work is not worth spending their hard-earned cash to buy. There are far better works. I'm only sorry that it has caused you pain.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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5 Solas said:
So, are you are still offering animal sacrifices ...?
Read Deuteronomy Rabbah 5:3 there you will find the answer!
Note, also that there is no longer a temple standing in Jerusalem (therefore, there is no place for sacrifices) and even if there were non-jews would not be required to offer sacrifices as they were never under the full 613 mitzvot(commandments) recorded in the written Torah(Pentateuch). However, according to the Mishneh Torah there are at least seven mitzvot that do apply to all.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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George Somsel said:MJ. Smith said:
We need some basic Toulmin argument mapping in Logos.
I think you need to explain that, MJ—I had to look it up myself.
I was laughing to myself as I read the discussion - not because the back and forth wasn't appropriate but because it read like bits and pieces picked out of the middle of a larger argument. If I were to draw an argument map I could fill in the blanks to make either side look like Aristotle or Rube Goldberg[:D]
If anyone wants to use it, here's my new remark/icon.
P.S. While they may not know the name Aussie kids can do Toulmin argument maps if Rationale educational software ads are to be believed. Go Aussies!
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I was laughing to myself as I read the discussion - not because the back and forth wasn't appropriate but because it read like bits and pieces picked out of the middle of a larger argument. If I were to draw an argument map I could fill in the blanks to make either side look like Aristotle or Rube Goldberg
That's because it was basically bits and pieces culled from all of the arguments propounded by Fundamentalists for their bizarre but popular view of inspiration (with my responses).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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RMC said:
I'm going to be starting a study on Isaiah in the new year, and was wondering if you have any recommendations for commentaries. What I'm looking for is something that gives cultural background and insights into the Hebrew text (preferably written in a way that someone who doesn't know Hebrew would understand). My preference is a commentary that is not heavy on application, but gives contextual information written in a way a layperson could understand. Any thoughts?
Here are a few you might want to look at:
- Continental Commentary Series: Isaiah 1–12
- Continental Commentary Series: Isaiah 13–27
- Continental Commentary Series: Isaiah 28–39
- Word Biblical Commentary, Volume 24: Isaiah 1-33
- Word Biblical Commentary, Volume 25: Isaiah 34-66 (Revised Edition)
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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George Somsel said:
arguments propounded by Fundamentalists for their bizarre but popular view
Gimme a break, George. My Grandfather was a Church of Christ preacher and my Dad an elder for many years. Misguided, perhaps, given the philosophical propositions accepted without recognition of their dependence on Locke (nature of language, individualism etc.) but definitely not bizarre. Many Fundamentalists are very consistent and easily supportable if one accepts the secular philosophy base. There are groups among them that are bizarre and popular ... but many deserve intellectual respect.
[And no I will NOT identify those who fall into the bizarre category]]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Gimme a break, George. My Grandfather was a Church of Christ preacher and my Dad an elder for many years. Misguided, perhaps, given the philosophical propositions accepted without recognition of their dependence on Locke (nature of language, individualism etc.) but definitely not bizarre. Many Fundamentalists are very consistent and easily supportable if one accepts the secular philosophy base. There are groups among them that are bizarre and popular ... but many deserve intellectual respect.
Some of them, yes. I grew up in a Fundamentalist church.
MJ. Smith said:[And no I will NOT identify those who fall into the bizarre category]]
Aw, pretty please with sugar on top, pray tell. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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MJ. Smith said:
[And no I will NOT identify those who fall into the bizarre category]]
George Somsel said:Aw, pretty please with sugar on top, pray tell.
He's probably just referring to people with views like mine[A]
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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After reading this thread I am reminded of the fact that
feeding a troll is much like feeding a stray dog, they will both come back for
more and you will never get rid of them. It might be fun at the beginning and
might even look like a public service, but after a while they become a nuisance.
No feeding, no troll. Pretty simple indeed.0 -
Alain Maashe said:
reminded of the fact that
feeding a troll is much like feeding a stray dog,Oops, I feed stray dogs (well actually cats who seem to become permanent fixtures).
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Respectfully, please go back and read the exchange, including the link I supplied .... George insisted in some of his posts that "the law" was still applied the same way today .... my question was to provoke him to look more closely at his error ....BKMitchell said:5 Solas said:So, are you are still offering animal sacrifices ...?
Read Deuteronomy Rabbah 5:3 there you will find the answer!
Note, also that there is no longer a temple standing in Jerusalem (therefore, there is no place for sacrifices) and even if there were non-jews would not be required to offer sacrifices as they were never under the full 613 mitzvot(commandments) recorded in the written Torah(Pentateuch). However, according to the Mishneh Torah there are at least seven mitzvot that do apply to all.
Yours In Christ
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5 Solas said:
Respectfully, please go back and read the exchange, including the link I supplied .... George insisted in some of his posts that "the law" was still applied the same way today .... my question was to provoke him to look more closely at his error ....
I did not insist that the law was applied the same way. You had to post to correct YOUR error. Learn to read.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George, with all due respect, it may not have been what you meant, but it was what you wrote and implied, et. al. But, don't worry, I will not be posting to correct any more of your errors. My original purpose in coming to the Logos forum was for technical advice and that is where my future posts will lie. Please do not respond to them. Thank you.George Somsel said:5 Solas said:Respectfully, please go back and read the exchange, including the link I supplied .... George insisted in some of his posts that "the law" was still applied the same way today .... my question was to provoke him to look more closely at his error ....
I did not insist that the law was applied the same way. You had to post to correct YOUR error. Learn to read.
Yours In Christ
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5 Solas said:
But, don't worry, I will not be posting to correct any more of your errors
I suggest that you post to correct your own errors.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Denise Barnhart said:
RMC ... there's is NO WAY that you can not use all the Logos resources profitably. Which scholar ever started out 'scholarly'? I say this as a compliment. Granted ... money can often be a challenge!
LOL Thanks Denise [:)]
Looking at product page, noticed Tyndale Commentaries (49 vols.) not mentioned:
For years, community bidding had => Barnes' Notes on the Old and New Testaments (26 vols.)
More recently, another community pricing resource shipped => The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (58 vols.)
Keep Smiling
Thank you - screenshots are so helpful
I appreciate this! I missed out on the Cambridge Bible when it was on CP - Didn't raise my bid in time [:(] Live and learn!Joshua Garcia said:Has anyone used:
Barry, John D. The Resurrected Servant in Isaiah. Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010.
I picked it up when it was in pre-pub, but I have not yet read it. Here is a random screenshot:
This looks right up my alley - I'll definitely be looking more into this! Thank you [:)]
BKMitchell said:Thank you [:)] I think the last one might be too pricey for me at this point, especially since it only covers about a third of Isaiah, but I'll look into it!
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Another thought - maybe there's something out there that's not specifically a commentary on Isaiah, but instead gives insight into the culture of Israel/ Judah during the reigns of Hezekiah, Uzziah, etc. that would give insight into the context in which Isaiah was written. I'm wondering if there is anything similar to http://www.logos.com/product/5339/jesus-in-context-background-readings-for-gospel-study, but for the time period that Isaiah is writing to/ about.
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RMC said:
Another thought - maybe there's something out there that's not specifically a commentary on Isaiah, but instead gives insight into the culture of Israel/ Judah during the reigns of Hezekiah, Uzziah, etc. that would give insight into the context in which Isaiah was written. I'm wondering if there is anything similar to http://www.logos.com/product/5339/jesus-in-context-background-readings-for-gospel-study, but for the time period that Isaiah is writing to/ about.
Hello RMC,
I haven't been able to locate any resource in Logos similar to what was done for the gospels, but I would recommend that you acquire a general History of ancient Israel. I have complied a few works from the Logos catalog that may(or may not) be of interest to your pursuit(Note the following are listed in order according to price not importance) :
- A History of Israel, 3rd ed. $34.95
- Hebrew History (3 vols.) $64.95
- The Hebrew Bible: A Socio-Literary Introduction $45.00
- Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament (5 vols.) $199.95
I hope others more knowledgeable than I will also attempt to answer this query of yours.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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While looking at
BKMitchell said:The Hebrew Bible: A Socio-Literary Introduction $45.00
Noticed pre-publication => Fortress Press Hebrew Bible Collection (11 vols.) that has "The Hebrew Bible: A Brief Socio-Literary Introduction" (412 pages vis 736 pages for complete edition) along with 10 more volumes.
By the way, after searching my Logos library for Isaiah NEAR chronological found The Cambridge Bible has chronological table that includes Sennacherib, with Isaiah's fourth group of prophecies being dated in that time frame. Found another chronological table in => Commentary on the Prophets of the Old Testament (5 vols.)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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