Say What? Libronix no longer supported????
Comments
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Again, apologies if already answered..
toughski said:I would like to get an explanation of the differences between .logos4 and .lbxlls. Are .logos4 files so advanced that there can be no parser/viewer/converter for Libronix to simply display text, without all the bells and whistles added for L4? Even old MS Word could read new .docx format with a little FREE downloadable addon.
The basic difference was that L3 format resources included their own Index whereas L4 format has no Index (all resources have to be indexed on your computer). However, I doubt a Viewer would be provided as the aim (when L4 was released in 2009) was to support Libronix by continuing to supply resources in native format until Logos judged that L4 was sufficiently mature and users would have the equipment to handle L4 (but Netbooks were not anticipated).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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ELA said:
I don't object to Logos' plans to discontinue distributing Libronix files in the future.
There isn't an embargo on existing Libronix format resources, whether intended for L3 or L4 but it appears that downloading them for L3 will be more difficult.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:toughski said:Super Tramp said:
If you think, "Fine, I will just use the "Librinox downloadable files" at the bottom of my order page.", Think again. Logos has not given us any Libronix file links for resources that have shipped the last couple of days.
Not only Logos has not given us any Libronix file links for resources that have shipped the last couple of days, they disabled all links for previous orders. How about common COURTESY:
Sorry if a later response has mentioned this..
But I still have the "Libronix Downloadable Files" links in Orders. You might have meant links in the Order Summary but that wasn't in the response you quoted.
I stand corrected. My order page has many section and I haven't looked at the very bottom. I was wrong.
Here is what I saw at first:
when I clicked on the links, I got to the Order Summary which I believed once had a link to libronix autoinstall file (licence and resources).
anyway, when I scrolled to the bottom of my Orders page I saw this:
so, the resource links are still there, but the licence file isn't. It can be had by going Tools>Library Management>Restore Licences
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Denise Barnhart said:
JimT:
How can I obtain my "License Keys" for my purchases without needing to go online?
Apologies: Logos 4 does not have a supported way to export/import your resource licenses. Logos 4 always uses network connection to sync your license information.
Wiki has => Quick Installation onto multiple computers whose steps (in all 3 methods) include unchecking Automatic Download so can use network to sign-in and sync your Logos 4 resource licenses.
Logos support has => http://www.logos.com/L4/support/InstallingfromInternet with online installation and download.KSFJ I think is an expert user and the answer seems to be 'not'? (regarding totally offline)
You can install Logos 4 totally offline (Method 1) and work with the resources, documents and preferences you had in your backup. You have to sign-in (offline)** to identify yourself as a valid User but then you continue to work offline using your existing resource licence**.
** all the necessary data to do this comes from the backup --> no need to get online.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks for the response Bob!
Now I'll just worry about you having a heart attack from your too-easy access to unlimited amounts of caffeine!
Seriously, though... I DO feel that my Logos investment is comparatively secure. I have significant confidence in what you are saying and that you and Logos will make things right. My Logos investment is safe for the foreseeable future. I didn't mean for my post to start a panicked mobbing of the exits. I meant it to affirm what you are doing, and to encourage us all to do what we should be doing to ensure access. You are right as a CEO to write and reassure your customers of the company's long-term viability. And I believe in that.
That said, there are just some things that are not foreseeable... and we'd be unwise and poor stewards not to prepare for such as much as it depends upon us. Even your posts suggest the need for us to backup our resources. And (duh) some of us aren't too good at knowing how to do that very well. It sounds like there are some simple things we can do to provide a level of additional confidence, and I think it would be helpful for those who know about how to do that to help those of us out a bit who don't. Then we'll all sleep a little better.
In actuality, I'm worried not so much about my lifetime, but for the next generation. No, I'm NOT expecting Logos to endlessly ensure my LLS stuff is workable. But there are issues that come up. And maybe they'll come up once you and I are both long gone, and have no control over that.
BTW... a recent example. Some of us had invested in Pradis (only because at the time Logos didn't have some needed resources that Pradis had). Well, Zondervan is a fairly reputable company, too (whether more or less than Logos isn't the issue... I'll concede that it is perhaps less). However, Zondervan bailed on Pradis and ceased support. They helpfully provided the resources to Logos. But we had to pay for the privilege of buying access again to our resources. And to make matters worse, some of those resources still haven't been released that were once available in Pradis (I'm not at all blaming Logos, as I am assuming that is Zondervan's call). I am thinking for example of The New International Dictionary of Biblical Archaeology, which I referred to CONSTANTLy and is one of my most critically used resources for teaching. Let's say, as an example, that Logos does get bought out by some one else... sure they won't dump half a million customers... but what if there is a charge, or upgrading of software or hardware, that will be necessary to continue accessing our Logos resources (such as occurred with Pradis?) Some of us may not be able to afford to make that lateral move (I know I wouldn't be able to do that a second time)... or perhaps we just wouldn't be able to take on the demands of a new learning curve at that stage of our lives, and would like to continue to use what we have. And as good as your intentions are, you can't guarantee that we won't face that, or that or kids won't when we pass on our libraries (btw- thanks for that privilege)... no one can guarantee what another company may do down the road.
So, I'm just trying to be a good steward, Bob, without trying to cast any aspersions at all on Logos or the decisions Logos has made. I understand that there are some steps I can or should take to safeguard my investment as much as it lies within me to do so. I'm just asking our friends on the forum for a little help with that.
With trust and appreciation in you and your company!
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Bob Pritchett said:
(I will, however, be taking the interns out on a chartered boat each summer, though. Tell the smartest college kids you know.)
Safety Reason #5: We're enamored with what's cool and next, so it's likely we'll keep breaking new ground, doing cooler things, and (at the cost of annoying some customers who like things just as they are) making sure that we aren't soon replaced in the market by younger, smarter competitors not tied to old technology and legacy support issues.
Just kidding... forgive me! :-)
And the biggest, best argument for our safe survival... drum roll...
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/01/weekinreview/01safe.html
We're #3 on the New York Times' "Where to Live to Avoid a Natural Disaster" list -- and #2 is our neighboring city!
-- Bob
Peace and Blessing and Good Health for the New Year, Bob ........ for you ........ for your loved ones! *smile*
On this bright, beautiful Sunny Sunday morning in Eastern Canada I find myself thanking you and thanking God for you! I truly appreciate your amazing sense of humour in spite of some of the flak you have been dodging! *smile*
Psalm 115:1
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Dave Hooton said:Ralph Mauch said:
Also, I hope that all the resources in L3, that come up in L4 will still be there
I have over 200 resources in Libronix format in my Logos 4 Library, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Hey Dave,
Reading a resource before Church this morning and when clicking on a reference it opened a pane to go to Logos and purchase it, but when I went to the Logos site it said "We couldn't find NPNF02". I wonder is that was because it had a prefix of LLS?. This is not the first time this has happened, I've noticed it before in the last couple of weeks, just wondering if that's because there is no LLS references to purchase anymore?
Just wondering if this is related or not, Blessings.
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Dave ... I appreciate your answer and not complaining. But (again?) the solution was not totally offline? You said 'still need to 'sign in'.
Having read Bob's latest, I still don't understand why protecting the investment is like pulling teeth. Or I'm missing something entirely. Bob very well knows a PC backup is not the answer. Quite often the backup itself contains the disaster (either from Logos itself or from some other offending software). And this is the second time he did the same, so I assume L4 doesn't have a way to do a clean backup without 'touching' the Logos site.
I think Emile's request above remains as the key question. And, just reading from several threads this week, people don't have a clear idea on how to protect their L3 investment either.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Quite often the backup itself contains the disaster
actually, that is why you make a back up as soon as you have a known good state. I started to create images of my system as soon as I install an OS, then another image after several Must-Have programs, then another one with frequently used programs. A 1TB drive and a couple hours of time up front is very cheap insurance for multi-thousand $ Logos library recovery.
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I think toughski you underlined what Bob has repeatedly demonstrated ... absent Logos.com, the user's L4 investment is toast. Realistically few do the steps you describe and certainly not if they have 'a life' (e.g. pastor, care for families, etc).
So my point remains: people need to do their own due diligence, since L4 removed the license backup/restore capability.
Unless Dave knows differently ..,.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Realistically few do the steps you describe and certainly not if they have 'a life' (e.g. pastor, care for families, etc).
Actually, by doing these steps (take minutes to do and minutes to restore a HD in case of a major failure) one is able to have a life.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Dave ... I appreciate your answer and not complaining. But (again?) the solution was not totally offline? You said 'still need to 'sign in'.
If you did not have to "sign in" then what is there to stop people from sharing their resources without any protection for the copyright owners?
Any electronic system requires some sort of central sign in, otherwise they would be open to piracy on a monumental scale.
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Mike ... Bingo. You get the prize.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Ralph Mauch said:Dave Hooton said:Ralph Mauch said:
Also, I hope that all the resources in L3, that come up in L4 will still be there
I have over 200 resources in Libronix format in my Logos 4 Library, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Hey Dave,
Reading a resource before Church this morning and when clicking on a reference it opened a pane to go to Logos and purchase it, but when I went to the Logos site it said "We couldn't find NPNF02". I wonder is that was because it had a prefix of LLS?. This is not the first time this has happened, I've noticed it before in the last couple of weeks, just wondering if that's because there is no LLS references to purchase anymore?
Just wondering if this is related or not, Blessings.
Ralph,
no issue there - this is due to their website reorganisation, which means that there is no clear translation for the webserver to open a resource page for ECF (I'm not sure if the resource itself ever was sold individually, I doubt it). See this thread http://community.logos.com/forums/t/42432.aspx for more info.
Mick
Have joy in the Lord!
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Denise Barnhart said:
You said 'still need to 'sign in'.
Yes, but I added a footnote to state that the information to do this came from the backup --> no need to be online at all. However, I rephrased that part to clear any ambiguity about "still need". Also remember that multiple Logos users can be part of an installation, so you still have to sign-in to identify the Logos account you will be using. It is done totally offline.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
I think Emile's request above remains as the key question. And, just reading from several threads this week, people don't have a clear idea on how to protect their L3 investment either.
It is harder to completely backup and install L3 because resources, preferences and documents are split over different folders. And you need an installation DVD to restore your addins (remember this has to be done offline). Might have to resurrect my recovery procedure from the Files forum (now where is it?).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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NewbieMick said:Ralph Mauch said:
Hey Dave,
Reading a resource before Church this morning and when clicking on a reference it opened a pane to go to Logos and purchase it, but when I went to the Logos site it said "We couldn't find NPNF02". I wonder is that was because it had a prefix of LLS?. This is not the first time this has happened, I've noticed it before in the last couple of weeks, just wondering if that's because there is no LLS references to purchase anymore?
Just wondering if this is related or not, Blessings.
Ralph,
no issue there - this is due to their website reorganisation, which means that there is no clear translation for the webserver to open a resource page for ECF (I'm not sure if the resource itself ever was sold individually, I doubt it). See this thread http://community.logos.com/forums/t/42432.aspx for more info.
To clarify: LLS:6.60.2 is the resource id. for NPNF02.logos4. LLS:34.0.97 is the resource id. for EVANGIB.lbxlls (Every Angel in the Bible). The first file is in logos4 format and the second is in Libronix format (lbxlls). The LLS: prefix probably started with the older Logos Library System which had a different file format to Libronix.
Note that Every Angel in the Bible can still be purchased.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Denise Barnhart said:
Having read Bob's latest, I still don't understand why protecting the investment is like pulling teeth. Or I'm missing something entirely. Bob very well knows a PC backup is not the answer. Quite often the backup itself contains the disaster (either from Logos itself or from some other offending software). And this is the second time he did the same, so I assume L4 doesn't have a way to do a clean backup without 'touching' the Logos site.
All applications can be restored from an image backup of the computer's SSD or hard drive. It is your first defence against a drive failure, which is guaranteed to happen whilst Logos (the company) is still up and running. Most image backups allow you to restore individual files and folders, so they can also be used to install Logos4 or Libronix to another computer (if you know a procedure for doing so). The point here is that each user needs to prepare for a disaster and image backup software is a good investment.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:toughski said:Super Tramp said:
If you think, "Fine, I will just use the "Librinox downloadable files" at the bottom of my order page.", Think again. Logos has not given us any Libronix file links for resources that have shipped the last couple of days.
Not only Logos has not given us any Libronix file links for resources that have shipped the last couple of days, they disabled all links for previous orders. How about common COURTESY:
Sorry if a later response has mentioned this..
But I still have the "Libronix Downloadable Files" links in Orders. You might have meant links in the Order Summary but that wasn't in the response you quoted.
Personally wish for return on Orders page for ability to click on order number, then download update.lbxupd file, which could be run to download many resources in one session (vis clicking on every single resource file on my orders page, which can be quite tedious for bundle and collection purchases).
Adding update.lbxupd files in "Libronix Downloadable Files" section on orders page would be appreciated, knowing that section is essentially becoming static (no new updates).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Thank you (again) Dave. I always strip back to factory. I'm not comfortable with a mixed world many updates later. So I'll be happy with L3; it's still a very creative piece of software.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Dave Hooton said:
The point here is that each user needs to prepare for a disaster...
[Y][Y][Y][Y][Y]
__________
15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)
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Adding update.lbxupd files in "Libronix Downloadable Files" section on orders page would be appreciated, knowing that section is essentially becoming static (no new updates).
It's a clean break from Logos' point of view. There is no legacy stuff in Order Summary to confuse people, and Bob has made it clear that additional effort will not be expended in this area.
In any case Users should backup their Libronix resources to a removable drive because their Order page never contained an inventory of every resource they own and neither does the FTP site. This is not new, as Libronix never had a procedure/script to restore missing resources. Although an installation DVD provides an automated way to copy resources to the computer it does not contain every resource on the FTP site.
So backup your resources and your license file!
EDIT: "your" is directed at users, not one individual!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
It's a clean break from Logos' point of view. There is no legacy stuff in Order Summary to confuse people, and Bob has made it clear that additional effort will not be expended in this area.
Thats a very big call by Bob, with zero notice, if that's in fact the position.
I call on Bob to urgently reinstate the missing L3 file download links on my Orders page, and give some notice period. Even as small as 30 to 90 days or so, but zero is unacceptable in my view.
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JimT said:Dave Hooton said:
It's a clean break from Logos' point of view. There is no legacy stuff in Order Summary to confuse people, and Bob has made it clear that additional effort will not be expended in this area.
Thats a very big call by Bob, with zero notice, if that's in fact the position.
I call on Bob to urgently reinstate the missing L3 file download links on my Orders page, and give some notice period. Even as small as 30 to 90 days or so, but zero is unacceptable in my view.
Bob's response on page 4 includes this:
"- Your Libronix install, files, and keys need the server even less. So
nothing we do -- up to and including going out of business or having our
offices wiped out by a tsunami -- takes that away from you. Yes, you
need to back up your files rather than counting on an easy download link
from the archived orders page. But A) that's the way it was and is with
older software -- nothing new, and
we aren't taking down the FTP
server. You can still get the files."Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Sorry Dave.
You and I don't agree on this matter.
I want Logos to put a link back for the missing L3 downloads and License Keys, and support that for some defined period. Simple really.
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JimT said:
Sorry Dave. You and I don't agree on this matter. I want Logos to put a link back for the missing L3 downloads and License Keys, and support that for some defined period. Simple really.
My opinion is of little value around the forums lately but I agree with you on this one JimT.
I knew this day would come so last year I began maintaining a copy of the whole Logos ftp site. If Logos never provides us with license restore capability in Logos 4, there are other alternatives as Bob has mentioned. I thought it would have been more difficult to hack Logos 4 but the nefarious crowd accomplished it early on. It just seems like Logos users wil become more like the First Century Church; going undergroud and viewed as lawbreakers to study their Bibles. (I took a little creative license here.) Going to pirate websites to get your Bible software can leave you feeling in need of another Hysop bath.
When it comes to Libronix it is possible to include the whole collection of L3 files in your resources directory. When you start the program the only files you can read will be the ones you have licenses for. Libronix will not remove locked resource files from your hard drive like L4 does. That saves me time on downloading when I buy a new resource in L4. For instance, I am finally getting around to buying Lange's Commentary. If the Logos ftp site were to be emptied of all Libronix files, I would still have Lange available in both my libraries.
So in light of the recent "suddeness" with which change can rock our Bible study world, maybe somebody ought to market a "Post-Logos Survival kit." I won't be buying it because I like Logos 4 and I'm 99% confident Logos will outlive me. [^o)] I will keep my rack of RAID drives, disk images, and offlsite storage of my resources.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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ok, ST, that bird looks like he's in a fishing hut on a frozen lake waiting for fish. But you cut too much off, so it's hard to tell.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Come on now Bob, you KNOW we are really after Mrs. P's Lasagna recipe. Just don't give it to Philip before you give it to me. [;)]Bob Pritchett said:If someone purchases the whole company simply to get my amazing chili recipe,
(Note for newcomers: this is a long-standing joke between the man currently known as Halo Hound and I).
That will thrill a young man from my church who has just become one of your 2012 interns. He and I are so thoroughly stoked! (Truth: I'm desperately trying not to covet.)Bob Pritchett said:(I will, however, be taking the interns out on a chartered boat each summer, though. Tell the smartest college kids you know.)
I'll point him to this thread so he can look forward to it. [:D]
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
JimT said:
I call on Bob to urgently reinstate the missing L3 file download links on my Orders page,
The team is looking into whether or not they can make this happen easily enough...
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