Logos Focus
Comments
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Re polls: Only once in these forums has anyone ever said they have changed their basic doctrine by reading the debates. (Although that amazes me, I will have to accept their testimony as given.) I doubt any of us will ever sway another just with fervent intensity. The real benefit comes from iron sharpening iron. The many issues raised will generate more study.
Most people don't want the truth ...
... they'er looking for answers to confirm their prejudices.
-- Michael Heiser
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New Poll: How many Logos users are redheads? (Statistics prove that most people with Doctorate degress are NOT redheads.)
I am not a redhead, and am working on a Ph.D.[;)]
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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Most people don't want the truth ...
... they'er looking for answers to confirm their prejudices.
-- Michael Heiser
I agree that is often the case.
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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I posted because I genuinely wanted to know the basis for Ken's declaration. I do not wish to debate with Ken; all I want is information.
Jack,
Here it is; the reason I was hesitant to provide the link, is because, I do not necessarily concur with all of the information on the page and have no desire to defend what is presented. The information was provided as an example of what AV only people are saying.
Sorry I cannot defend this guy; though, here it is: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/which_bible_can_we_trust.htm
My position is to learn the OT; using the NT as Midrash and letting the OT judge the validity of the underlying Greek NT text; I have not documented my findings because I only use this method for distinguishing favorable texts in my personal reading of scripture, it never occured to me that there would be a debate. I assumed people use the Bible of their choice and hope they read it and talk about what they read, learing the way of the father.
God bless you and keep you,
Ken
KenThank you for the link. I'll just say that he did not prove his case and let it go at that.
Jack0 -
I was simply trying to see the views of the majority of the users because Logos has added alot of reformed writers lately and I thought that maybe it was due to the fact that people were asking for them. Which would leave me to believe that there are a lot of reformed users.
…New Poll: How many Logos users are redheads? (Statistics prove that most people with Doctorate degress are NOT redheads.)
My wife is a redhead (I know because I color her hair), but she does not use Logos. Does that count? [:D]
Jack0 -
My wife is a redhead (I know because I color her hair), but she does not use Logos. Does that count?
Jack,
User by marriage!!!!![H]
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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Jack,
You have my upmost respect, my friend!!!
Michael
Michael
Thank you. I will endeavor to show respect toward you also.
Jack
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My wife is a redhead (I know because I color her hair), but she does not use Logos. Does that count?
Jack
I suspect she does not read these forums either
That would be scary! [8-|]. Before I get myself in trouble with my bride of 48 years, I will hush.
Jack
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My wife is a redhead (I know because I color her hair), but she does not use Logos. Does that count?
Jack,
User by marriage!!!!!
Oh! A User-in-Law. [:D]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I asked for a refrence of any Church Father rejecting the DOCUMENTS behind the Ciritical Text. It really does not matter; I was simply curious as to how this belief originated.
I have nothing; though, if you have the time you could probably, indirectly, prove a very important point. A related claim is that the Church Fathers used the TR and not the CR (I know, the CR did not exist so I will refer to the text in question (the stuff that is different between the TR and the CR) as the Alexandrian Texts).
Back to the point; knowing which text the Apostolic Fathers and the Church Fathers used, TR or Alexandrian, would go a long way to proving which text was used buy the common man. It appears to me, that this should be testable and provable.
God bless you and keep you,
KenThere are frequently notes regarding such in the apparatus of the NA27.
George, could you please elaborate further on what you mean by "There are frequently notes regarding such in the apparatus of the NA27".
Is this a reference of the Church Father rejecting the DOCUMENTS behind the Critical Text or "A
related claim is that the Church Fathers used the TR and not the CR (I
know, the CR did not exist so I will refer to the text in question (the
stuff that is different between the TR and the CR) as the Alexandrian
Texts).Back
to the point; knowing which text the Apostolic Fathers and the Church
Fathers used, TR or Alexandrian, would go a long way to proving which
text was used buy the common man".Thanks in advance for your help.
Sir T.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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, if you have the time you could probably, indirectly, prove a very important point. A related claim is that the Church Fathers used the TR and not the CR (I know, the CR did not exist so I will refer to the text in question (the stuff that is different between the TR and the CR) as the Alexandrian Texts).
Note that for the Septuagint vs. Masoretic text in NT qquotations this type of work has been done ... they looked at just those allusions and quotations in which the Masorectic and Septuagint differ, and determine if the NT followed the Masoretic or the Septuagint. If I remember correctly the results leaned heavily towards the Septuagint. It would be interesting to take it a step further an evaluate the bias by NT author ... which they probably have done but I have not seen the data. Surely some doctoral student has been sufficiently desperate for a thesis project to do research on the "most quoted" manuscript tradition.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Before I get myself in trouble with my bride of 48 years, I will hush.
48 years!!!! That is wonderful, Jack. God Bless you!!!!
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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48 years
What's the big deal. Aug 4 is my parents' 75th wedding anniversary!!!
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Michael
In light of your recent postings, I just want to explain again what my objection WAS. It had nothing to do with the actual debate on Calvinism, it had something to do with the purpose of this forum. Earlier on this thread I mentioned that I am finished debating on the PURPOSE of this forum. It will go as it will go. And that is why I have not objected to the translation debates nor will I object to any debate even if it is a Calvin debate.
By the way, fyi, if a calvinist pointed a gun to my head and asked if I was a calvinist, I would say yes. And if an arminean pointed a gun to my head and asked if I was a calvinist, I would say yes. But since no one is pointing a gun to my head, I will say what I have always said...I am a believer. I dont want to be called a calvinist because in my opinion, Calvin himself would object to the term. And because it cuts off genuine brothers and sisters who either dont see things in this way or have never studied the issues or are still learning, or dont know a thing about Calvin. I am simple enough to believe that it is possible to believe correctly by studying the Scriptures and not studying Calvin.
I am happy, very happy to see works of Calvin in Libronix. I am also happy as others have said to see heretical teachings in Libronix. I am happy to see reformed material and I am happy to see dispensational material. I am happy to see Charismatic resources...because I can study these things....and I have used Libronix in that way. When confronted with a movement I had no idea existed, I found dozens and dozens of resources in Libronix to help me understand the movement and see if it was Scriptural of not.
I also, Michael, have nothing personal against you or anyone else on this forum. And you will not hear me anymore contribute to a debate on the PURPOSE of this forum. It will go the way it will go.
I also think that these threads make it clear that it is difficult to discuss things in a loving manner. We all get emotional, and some get more emotional than others. It is an excercise for the alert believer to realize that as holy as we may have gotten, we are all far from being holy.
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Is there any way to setup the forum so I can ignore this thread? It keeps showing up in the top few, and I keep forgetting that it has nothing to do with Logos or its Focus anymore. It's gotten so far off topic I keep wonder whether it will actually fall of the edge of the internet -- there is an edge somewhere, right?
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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48 years
What's the big deal. Aug 4 is my parents' 75th wedding anniversary!!!
Congratulate them for me MJ. My maternal grandfather died just 3 months short of that milestone.
Jack
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Is there any way to setup the forum so I can ignore this thread? It keeps showing up in the top few, and I keep forgetting that it has nothing to do with Logos or its Focus anymore. It's gotten so far off topic I keep wonder whether it will actually fall of the edge of the internet -- there is an edge somewhere, right?
I'm afraid not. Remember that the earth is round so that you don't fall off the edge.
Sincerely,
Columbusgeorge
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George, could you please elaborate further on what you mean by "There are frequently notes regarding such in the apparatus of the NA27".
Is this a reference of the Church Father rejecting the DOCUMENTS behind the Critical Text or "A related claim is that the Church Fathers used the TR and not the CR (I know, the CR did not exist so I will refer to the text in question (the stuff that is different between the TR and the CR) as the Alexandrian Texts).
Back to the point; knowing which text the Apostolic Fathers and the Church Fathers used, TR or Alexandrian, would go a long way to proving which text was used buy the common man".
Thanks in advance for your help.
Sir T.
I'm not going to try to give you anything like an exhaustive list, but I'll try to point you in the direction of what to look for. Now class [;)], if you will open your print copy of the NA27 to page 2 (Mt 1:11-22), you will note that in the apparatus at the bottom of the page when it references v. 18 it has some variants and manuscripts where each is cited. It also has "Ir Or." This is for Irenaeus and Origen. You will need to search the works of these authors to see how they reference the passage so your assignment for today is to select any 10 pages of the NA27 with at least 1/3 of the page devoted to the apparatus then search the apparatus for indications that some Church Father supported one of the readings and then to indicate which reading he supported. Once you have finished this you are to link the Critical Text with Stephanus to see which textual tradition is being used. [:D]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I'll try to point you in the direction of what to look for
Okay, I'm moving this discussion over to the files thread ... and you need to have read the materials before you comment.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I'll try to point you in the direction of what to look for
Okay, I'm moving this discussion over to the files thread ... and you need to have read the materials before you comment.
??
Does this material have a label?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Is there any way to setup the forum so I can ignore this thread?
I'm afraid not. Remember that the earth is round so that you don't fall off the edge.
I guess I should have seen that coming; after all the discussion has been quite circular (or would that be spherical). [;)]
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I'll try to point you in the direction of what to look for
Okay, I'm moving this discussion over to the files thread ... and you need to have read the materials before you comment.
??
Does this material have a label?
MJ's new thread is called Textus Receptus; Majority Text; Manuscripts; Statistics; Lectures; Opinion - rationally presented
Be sure to read it all before commenting or you will suffer the terror of her grandson. [li]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I'll try to point you in the direction of what to look for
Okay, I'm moving this discussion over to the files thread ... and you need to have read the materials before you comment.
??
Does this material have a label?
MJ's new thread is called Textus Receptus; Majority Text; Manuscripts; Statistics; Lectures; Opinion - rationally presented
Be sure to read it all before commenting or you will suffer the terror of her grandson.
For some strange reason I find no such post in the Files group.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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For some strange reason I find no such post in the Files group.
Sorry George,
You're right. MJ has posted a new thread in the FORUMS by that title and has a zip file link in at the bottom of the initial posting .
As of yet, I guess it isn't in the file group.?!? You can get the zipped file link off the forum post for now.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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New Logos user here! I am Reformed/Calvinist. I think your asking this question is just fine. I think we all wonder how many others with like beliefs are on the forum and who we can share like faith with!
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New Logos user here! I am Reformed/Calvinist. I think your asking this question is just fine. I think we all wonder how many others with like beliefs are on the forum and who we can share like faith with!
Welcome Reformed Girl!
I'm also Reformed (though not a girl), but need to suggest that the forum guidelines would frown on discussing theology, or anything outside how we use Logos software.
Be sure to review the forum guidelines here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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edited:
[;)] Welcome to the forums, Reformed Girl.
I am a reformed reforming antagonist. "Please be patient with me. God is not finished with me yet."
Every now and then I post without much thinking. [W]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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the edge? well, i finished reading through this thread, so now I can say "I finished the Internnet". right?
hehehehhjee0 -
Note: Logos 4.5a RC 1 search of Entire Library was mucho faster than Libronix 3.0g Fuzzy Search.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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