Talmud quote - need help from expert!
In Intro. to Systematic Theology Wayne Grudem quotes The Bab. Talmud. Unfortunately the book is not tagged to the Talmud.
Having both Neusner's transl., Rodkinson - and the Mishnah I wanted to read the quotes - but I can't find them.
There is no Yomah 9B (Neusner stops at 8) - and there is no Sota 48b - so another way of referencing is obviously being used. Unfortunately I'm ignorant - is there someone here on the forums who can enlightnen me?
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The Rodkinson talmud is not a complete version of the text. He edited out portions of the original text based on 2 factors:
1. some sections being too obscure.
2. He deemed some texts to have been insertions by Christians posing as Rabbis in order to use Jewish texts to endorse the Christian faith.
That having been said, if you have the Rodkinson version you may be stuck. You could buy the other version or look at the online options. I found Yoma 9b here: http://www.yashanet.com/library/temple/yoma9b.htm
and Sota 48b here: http://www.come-and-hear.com/sotah/sotah_48.html
You could probably look around and turn up some other references and perhaps even the Hebrew version of the text if you are so inclined.
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Thanks Erik for the Internet links. I appreciate them.
However, I was not using the Rodkinson - I know it's incomplete (I was just stating that I have both translations available). It's missing from the Neusner translation.
So I guess my question is: Is the Neusner translation also incomplete - or is there another way of referencing the Talmud than the one that is being used in Neusner's?
Actually it's quite often (not only in Grudem's book) that a Talmud ref. is nowhere to be found - except on an Internet search. This is what gives me reason to suspect that there must be another way of referencing that I'm unaware of.
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ELA said:
In Intro. to Systematic Theology Wayne Grudem quotes The Bab. Talmud. Unfortunately the book is not tagged to the Talmud.
Having both Neusner's transl., Rodkinson - and the Mishnah I wanted to read the quotes - but I can't find them.
There is no Yomah 9B (Neusner stops at 8) - and there is no Sota 48b - so another way of referencing is obviously being used. Unfortunately I'm ignorant - is there someone here on the forums who can enlightnen me?
As you have noted, there is no Yoma(h) 9b, but something similar to what you cite seems to be included in Yoma 1:1, III.11 A-D
III.11 A. What is the meaning of "cedar"?
B. Said Ulla, "It is ‘a sawing worm’ " [Jung].
C. What is the meaning of "a sawing worm"?
D. Said R. Abba, "It means, ‘an echo.’ For it has been taught on Tannaite authority: When the last prophets died, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi, the Holy Spirit took leave of Israel. But still they made use of the echo.’ "george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Thank you George.
Your answer helped me find the solution - because it had to be there somewhere!
So the references are to the folios - which are mentioned in the beginning of each tractate.
As you scroll through the tractate, the searchfield will display the actual folio. (And the mention of the folio will be in the text with very small letters) - the place you found Yoma 1:1, III.11 A-D is actually in (folio) yoma 9b. You can search for a reference by writing the folio no in the search box - and it seems that many writers are referencing Talmud by folios and not chapters. I didn't know that. I'm extremely pleased about this. This really makes Logos 4 great!
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ELA said:
You can search for a reference by writing the folio no in the search box - and it seems that many writers are referencing Talmud by folios and not chapters.
Folios are the original and most frequently used way of referencing the Talmud. Neusner uses a new, more precise numbering system. Newer books tend to use the newer system, older books will also use the folio system. There's more information here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/36487.aspx
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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ELA said:
As you scroll through the tractate, the searchfield will display the actual folio. (And the mention of the folio will be in the text with very small letters) - the place you found Yoma 1:1, III.11 A-D is actually in (folio) yoma 9b. You can search for a reference by writing the folio no in the search box - and it seems that many writers are referencing Talmud by folios and not chapters. I didn't know that. I'm extremely pleased about this. This really makes Logos 4 great!
Is your illustration from the Rodkinson edition? My Neusner doesn't display the folio numbers though they are acknowledged in the "Locator Bar."
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
My Neusner doesn't display the folio numbers though they are acknowledged in the "Locator Bar."
They're there in Neusner, like this, inline in the text: [2b].
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:George Somsel said:
My Neusner doesn't display the folio numbers though they are acknowledged in the "Locator Bar."
They're there in Neusner, like this, inline in the text: [2b].
Do you have a different build from what I have?
LLS:BABYTALMUD
2011-12-22T21:02:21Z
BABYTALMUD.logos4george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Thank you, Mark - this is VERY helpful information!
(and George, the illustration was from Neusner's edit. - but the folio numbers are very small and lined in - like Mark showed. They are there - just small)
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George Somsel said:
Do you have a different build from what I have?
No, it's the same. They're easy to miss, but if you use the find facility (CTRL+F), you'll see them.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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