True variety of resources?
Hi. I'm in the process of entering the clergy with the ELCA, and I'm having some trouble figuring out which of the resources you offer are going to be helpful to me.
When I look at resources about empowering women in the church, it's frankly impossible, usually, to figure out if the books are for or against female ordination from the advertising copy- which, as you might imagine, would have an impact on whether I'd be interested in them. (By the way, I notice that female authors rarely seem to have their degrees listed after their names, whereas almost all the male authors do. Someone might want to look into that, it just looks weird.)
The copy about a lot of the books is clearly just straight from the publisher- which means it's full of claims to be "Christ centered" but has little information about the background of the author and their approach to the text. If an author was on the conservative side of the Seminex disagreement, for example, and doesn't use social-historical criticism, that information would be useful to me when evaluating resources, but figuring that kind of thing out is kind of impossible from the advertising copy.
And it might just be me- I'm still poking around and all, kind of new- but on the surface it looks like there are a lot more books from the fundamentalist side of things than otherwise. I'm having trouble finding books on liberation theology, world Christiantiy, the emerging church, etc. And most of the Lutheran stuff seems to be either from Martin Luther himself (which, hey, great!) or from the WELS (which doesn't help me much). And I'm just not here to buy books by John Piper, you know?
Any tips on better search words to find what I'm looking for? Any links to places where Logos talks about how they find and choose resources to add to the collection? Thanks!
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Welcome to the forum, Katie!
And a very good summary of what you found, I must say. Kind of like someone from Boston arriving in Houston (or visa versa).
Pretty slim pickings; I go mainly by the publishers, and then of course the authors. I most enjoy the ones that discuss the text:
http://www.logos.com/product/3090/woman-in-the-bible
http://www.logos.com/product/2960/discovering-biblical-equality
Not much to brag about though. You ask about search tips; I'm somewhat at a loss. I look for various forms of 'women' and then weed out the publishers.
Hopefully others can offer additional tips. There's a pre-pub out there 'Womens Commentary' but I don't think it's going anywhere (needs more 'votes'). It's good.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Hi Katie, welcome!
Other than the brief author bio that is usually included on the resources pages on Logos.com, there's no place on Logos's site that you can go to find out what theological positions the authors have on various issues. You can sometimes get a feel for it by looking at the sample pages in the book (most books now have a "See Inside" button on the cover image on the website). Otherwise you'll have to discover that info yourself by Googling the author's name.
You will be hard-pressed to find Logos resources specifically about empowering women in the church. Logos's target audience has historically been conservative evangelicals, and they've only recently been broadening to incorporate a wider range of resources in their catalog. But still by far the majority will come down on the conservative side of the role of women in the church and family. I am starting to develop a small collection of "Women, Feminist Theology & Gender Studies" books, including such titles as Feminist Interpretation of the Bible and the Hermeneutics of Liberation (so far only available as part of the Gender and the Bible Collection), but it's pretty meager.
There's also not much yet (in terms of full-book treatments) on liberation theology, world Christianity, or the emerging church, though you might find the Missional Theology Collection of interest to you. You might also want to consider the journal Semeia. It's more towards the liberal/progressive side of the spectrum.
Logos does seek suggestions from users as to what new resources to bring out. Post your ideas in the Suggestions forum, or email them to suggest@logos.com. I know others have been requesting books on liberation theology and such. You could add your voice to one of those threads or start your own. See http://community.logos.com/forums/t/28987.aspx, http://community.logos.com/forums/t/37163.aspx (note this latter isn't likely to be seen by Logos though, as it's in the General forum; best to post in Suggestions).
They've hired a Catholic product manager, so they've really been ramping up on Catholic resources. It seems they could use a Liberal/Progressive Protestant product manager as well.
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Is not fortress press an ELCA publisher? I do know of some WELS materials but there is some Concordia Publishing House......(That probably won't help either)....
I am not sure but I am sure Presbyterian Church of the United States (PCUSA) has a publisher that it uses.....you could find out if they publish much with Logos.....I just say this because I think the ELCA are in fellowship with them.
I have seen other people talk about writing letters to some of the publisher's and see if deals can't be worked out between the publisher's and Logos.....to get things published....
I have also been told that if your looking for a particular book or "type" of book send a letter to suggest at logos dot com.
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I think Westminster/John Knox Press is one of the ones that PCUSA is connected with. Search the website for publisher:westminster. It's not a perfect search; it might pick up some other stuff or leave out some. You might also find some others by clicking on the publisher name under one of the books you do find. SPCK sometimes has some good stuff too (e.g., SPCK New Testament Studies Collection; published in conjunction with Westminster John Knox). Another keyword to search for is ecumenical. Eerdmans and Baker sometimes publish things that are more ecumenical and open. Also Yale University Press (Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, Anchor Yale Bible, and Anchor Yale Bible Reference Library (29 vols.)).
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Some obvious resources:
Anchor Yale Bible items. The Dictionary, Commentaries, and Reference Library are available
New Interpreters Series. - Last I saw both Dictionary and Commentary were on pre-pub.
Interpretation Commentaries.
Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church
Fortress has many good items as well, including Her Story and many strong biblical commentaries.
Emerging Church - I seem to recall a few titles of Leonard Sweet and Brian McLaren over at Vyrsio.
While WELS is challenging to deal with, you in the ELCA say that you view yourselves as in union with all churches that accept the teachings of the Unaltered Augsburg Confession. That being the case, shouldn't you listen to the concerns of those who have concerns about the ELCA?
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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DMB, Rosie, and William, thank you for the links and the search information. Searching by publisher should be a great help, excellent! And yes, I'm very fond of several resources that the Westminster Press and the link publish.
Kenneth- I'm afraid several of those resources, while delightful to dream about, are slightly too rich for my blood at the moment, but yes, I do look forward to them. Regarding listening to the concerns of those who have concerns with the ELCA, believe me I have, and I have little choice but to continue to do so even if I didn't want to. While spending a year with a congregation that was considering leaving the ELCA, I did a great deal of research on several topics of concern to them, and since they did leave in the end, I suppose their concerns would be valid enough for you? But of course if I want to listen to people who have concerns with the ELCA, all I have to do is turn on the news, or read a blog post- and I do those as well, and they're free. Because my resources are rather limited at the moment, I have little interest in funding people like John Piper, who, if he likes his sense of Christianity to have a "masculine feel", is perfectly welcome to enjoy my not reading his books and leaving them safely un-feminized by my touching them, even in a cyber-sense.
Short version: Of course I listen to those concerns, but I see no reason to pay money to do so. When I need to do that kind of research, that's what libraries are for.
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KatieBLutheran said:
I have little interest in funding people like John Piper, who, if he likes his sense of Christianity to have a "masculine feel", is perfectly welcome to enjoy my not reading his books and leaving them safely un-feminized by my touching them, even in a cyber-sense.
Katie,
John Piper is a true man of God who preaches from the BIBLE. He does not bend to modern day pressures. He stays true to the context of the WORD. It is not John Piper that creates a "masculine feel", this comes directly from the text.
I would recommend one really good resource for you to start with -- it is the ESV Study Bible.
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Oh boy, here we go again... it's all I can do right now not to feed the troll.
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MJD said:KatieBLutheran said:
I have little interest in funding people like John Piper, who, if he likes his sense of Christianity to have a "masculine feel", is perfectly welcome to enjoy my not reading his books and leaving them safely un-feminized by my touching them, even in a cyber-sense.
Katie,
John Piper is a true man of God who preaches from the BIBLE. He does not bend to modern day pressures. He stays true to the context of the WORD. It is not John Piper that creates a "masculine feel", this comes directly from the text.
I would recommend one really good resource for you to start with -- it is the ESV Study Bible.
I hope we can please stay off the topic of the role of women in the home, society and/or the church. Such a discussion, to be valuable, would go far beyond the purpose of the forums, and violate the forum guidelines.
I would say that many resources, while not overtly for or against an egalitarian view of men and women, are quite compatible with such a view, and most (though not all) that stand on the complementarian side of this debate do struggle honestly and respectfully with the textual and cultural issues. I have found it to be quite rare to find commentaries (e.g.) that "stack the deck" one way or the other, though they do exist.
If you have a question about how a commentary or other resource handles a particular Bible passage, or topic, feel free to ask.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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KatieBLutheran said:
I'm having trouble finding books on liberation theology, world Christiantiy, the emerging church, etc.
What exactly are you looking for? Are you looking for historical studies on these issues, commentaries from those within those positions or something else?
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Thank you Richard, Dave and Philana.
Much as I always appreciate the thoughtful inquiry into my own background, education, and reasoning behind favorite English translation choice, I am happy to acknowledge that this is neither the time nor the place for such a conversation, and will simply say that I did manage to take a good long look at a number of translations- including the ESV- and quite happily settled on the NRSV for standard use well before I finished my M.Div. The introduction to the translation explains why very well, and coincides with my own studies in Hebrew and Greek.Richard- I find it, frankly, odd, that such a major company (I mean, as far as I'm aware, it's mostly Logos and Bibleworks, right, and Bibleworks doesn't do the variety of resources that Logos does by design) chooses not to have an equal balance of resources from both the egalitarian and complementarian point of view. I'd be happy with half. You'd think the company would be interested in such a large market share, frankly, aside from the fact that Logos itself doesn't seem to have a theological stance itself, or at least I haven't found one on their website. (For all we know I suppose the entire company's staffed with atheists and, I don't know, Scientologists.) As "thoughtful" a discussion as complementarian books may give any related issue (and you know, that's an awful lot of issues) they still, fundamentally, don't do a lot for me. I'm from a denomination which had predecessor bodies- pretty much all of them, actually- who were ordaining women in the 1970's. Frankly, there are a lot of books out there, and I only have so much time and money, and I'm going to concentrate my time and money on reading books by people who don't see my answering my call to ministry as an affront to God and who therefore don't really want to talk to me anyway (except to tell me I'm imagining said call- and yeah, that's happened).
As to what kind of resources I'm looking for- well, when it comes to Liberation Theology, I've read Guitierrez, but I'd love some further exploration of what that movement has done elsewhere on the globe. I've attended an emergent church service in Minneapolis, and it wasn't really my thing, but I would be interested in finding out more about the movement, particularly the motivations behind it. My favorite books are the ones written by pastors "on the ground" about their experiences, with theological reflections arising from them. Thanks for asking!
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Maybe this will be helpful; here is a passage from my favorite resource, ESV Bible -- Matthew 7:21-23.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
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edited no use starting something while trying to keep it from being started.
Thanks.
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And the NRSV version is:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in
