Could the perceived speed problems be exacerbated by false expectations from the tutorial videos?

It is obvious that there are different perceptions on the performance of L4 in regards to speed.

I wonder if part of the problem could be that many people are expecting their installation of L4 to be as fast as seems to be portrayed in the tutorial videos.

For instance, the results from a passage guide search in the video entitled "Home Page Bible Study" seems instantaneous.

Of course anybody with a critical eye can see that there has been an edit between hitting enter and the results screen.

My suggestion is that this might be creating an unrealistic expectation among a lot of people regarding speed.

This isn't all of the problem. There seem to be legitimate issues of non-responsive behavior and there will always be performance issues related to hardware and OS configuration.

Still, it might be helpful to publish a video related to speed issues where the results of that same passage are shown in real time. This video could highlight the advantages of the new architecture and make the case for the future oriented posture of the design (as Bob Pritchett has convincingly described on this blog). But I think it could also go a long way for creating realistic expectations in how the software is designed to work even with the best hardware.

Just a suggestion,

Russ

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Comments

Kevin Becker

I sure hope they edit down the videos. A second here and there really adds up. I'd rather spend my time learning than watch a computer think.

I have a fairly fast machine so Logos 4 performance is not an issue for me. Personally, I would be annoyed if they put a disclaimer in the videos "your experience may vary based on your hardware/configuration;" that's just a given with any computer program.

Even if they released unedited videos the speed of the presentation computer could still vary widely from the machine someone else is using. Yesterday I ran a L3 passage guide for comparison and I was happy to return to L4 land.

TCBlack

RE speed, you make some good points Russ. Thanks for that.

Can I pick one tiny nit? This is a forum not a blog. (Don't hit me!)

Back on point, yes I do wish the video's showed a more obvious cut (screen flip, fade, etc.) That would be sufficient to communicate that which is obvious to the more discerning eye.

James Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37005#Comment_37005

I sure hope they edit down the videos. A second here and there really adds up. I'd rather spend my time learning than watch a computer think.

I have a fairly fast machine so Logos 4 performance is not an issue for me. Personally, I would be annoyed if they put a disclaimer in the videos "your experience may vary based on your hardware/configuration;" that's just a given with any computer program.

Even if they released unedited videos the speed of the presentation computer could still vary widely from the machine someone else is using. Yesterday I ran a L3 passage guide for comparison and I was happy to return to L4 land.

Kevin,

I agree with you. Any kind of a "disclaimer" would only aggravate any discontent. I would prefer that Libronix just continue to improve the application both in terms of content and performance. And videos should be related to how to actually use the application.

That said, Russ does have a point. And while the speed in L4 is better than in L3, I would perfer a little more responsiveness. There is room for improvement and I hope Libronix continues to focus on this area of performance. I should also say that speed is one of those areas where we always want more. I guess the best application is the one that executes the command before we type it! I can't wait for that level of responsiveness.... [Y]

Russ Quinn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37029#Comment_37029

Can I pick one tiny nit? This is a forum not a blog. (Don't hit me!)

Brother,

You are going to have to elaborate on your comment.

I'm certainly not wanting to hit you but I can only guess that your anticipation of violence on my part means you intended a mild rebuke of some sort.

I'm not catching the nuance of your distinction between a forum and a blog.
My post is intended to be a helpful suggestion from a supportive customer.
Is that not an appropriate topic for a forum post in your view?
This forum is full of complaints about the speed of L4.
Logos is recommending this forum as a source of information for new and prospective customers.
They even put a link in their blog post that returns search results for all of the posts related to slow performance.
Logos seems to be taking this issue head on rather than hiding it.
I am merely suggesting that a video that highlighted the speed advantages of the new architecture, addressed hardware and OS optimization and perhaps showed real time results might be helpful for those who might wonder how they should expect their installation to perform.

I am not suggesting all of the training videos be re-edited to show real time results. I am only suggesting that a performance related video be added. It could be done in a positive way that would also help establish a baseline for performance expectations on an optimized system. It is just my opinion, but I would think it would be helpful for some folks (not everyone but some) to have some context by which to judge the performance of their installation.

If this is not appropriate for this forum, please help me understand why and I will gladly refrain from offering similar suggestions in the future.

Thanks,

Russ

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37087#Comment_37087

You are going to have to elaborate on your comment.

I'm certainly not wanting to hit you but I can only guess that your anticipation of violence on my part means you intended a mild rebuke of some sort.

Sorry Russ, that should have been perceived as a joke. I'm told my humor can be a bit dry. The "don't hit me" was because some terse answers are perceived as an attack and one is given in kind. One of these --> [:)] might have helped clarify that.

I'm not catching the nuance of your distinction between a forum and a blog.

A Blog is a running web log of commentary usually by a single person on somewhat specific topics. A Forum, such as this one is an interactive community of individuals all posting questions, responses and thoughts. The distinction, which isn't of any major importance - is one of my pet peeves. I tried to minimize it by calling it a "tiny nit". Apparently I failed. {Sigh.}

My post is intended to be a helpful suggestion from a supportive customer.
Is that not an appropriate topic for a forum post in your view?

It was quite helpful as my response to either side of my missed joke reflects.

RE speed, you make some good points Russ. Thanks for that.

...

Back on point, yes I do wish the video's showed a more obvious cut
(screen flip, fade, etc.) That would be sufficient to communicate that
which is obvious to the more discerning eye.

This forum is full of complaints about the speed of L4.

I've noticed, so has Logos and as you state they are addressing it head on.

I am not suggesting all of the training videos be re-edited to show real time results. I am only suggesting that a performance related video be added. It could be done in a positive way that would also help establish a baseline for performance expectations on an optimized system. It is just my opinion, but I would think it would be helpful for some folks (not everyone but some) to have some context by which to judge the performance of their installation.

And I agreed with your comments here.

If this is not appropriate for this forum, please help me understand why and I will gladly refrain from offering similar suggestions in the future.

It was all me Brother Quinn, my dry humor was missed. Sorry for that. You're post was directly on target, perfectly appropriate for a forum, and specifically for this forum.

Stay with us brother, I'm usually nice once you get to know me. <<<<--Joke [;)]

I'll try to refrain from picking nits. <-- another joke [:)]

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37117#Comment_37117

thomas....

Are you sure that you didn't switch back avatars a little too soon?

Russ Quinn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37117#Comment_37117

Thomas,

Thanks for the response.

I wasn't attacking back or being defensive.

I really was trying to understand the substance of your rebuke (if one was intended). Psalm 141:5 and all that

I've noticed enough of your helpful comments in other threads to know that you are a helpful guy. All the more reason to take you seriously.

Russ

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37125#Comment_37125

Back on topic of the actual post ... (perceived rebuke should be understood and is intended)

The speed issues are very real on my machines. For example:

1. When typing notes in every program I use when I type a letter it INSTANTLY shows up on screen. In Logos it takes often a second to three seconds to appear. Usually it is closer to a second.

2. When I click windows in most programs I am running, like Firefox, Logos 3, WordSearch, they instantly draw on the screen. With Logos it can take a few seconds for it to even respond and then I can sometimes visibly see it draw itself.

3. Loading takes anywhere from 12-18 seconds depending on what else is running. That's not really that bad. Buy by comparison most other programs (I just loaded Word, BibleWorks 8, WordSearch 8, MS Word 2007 and then iTunes 9) and all took less time than Logos 3 and 4. The worst of this list was iTunes and it took 12 seconds.

I believe this is a memory leak. I just shut down Logos 4 and reopened it and now it is pretty fast. I have a layout called Favorite Translations/Commentaries. It loads ESV, NASB, HCSB in one pane and NAC, IVP Bible Background and Pulpit Commentary in the other. It takes about 8 seconds to load. Again not bad. But I have a WordSearch go from not running to open with HCSB, Life Application Topical Studyies, IVP NT Commmentary, McGee's Through the Bible, Life Application Commentary, NAC, and Preachers Outline and Sermon Bible and it opens in about 4-6 seconds.

I have a Quad Core system with 8 GB of Ram and a very fast 1 TB drive running at 7200 rpm with a 16 MB cache. I also have a GeForce 8500 video card. This is a very fast system. I do Photoshop crunching of huge RAW picture files very fast. Logos is just very slow!

Russ Quinn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37142#Comment_37142

Oh, just saw that I actually said "blog" in my original post.

Now I get it . . .

The drama was all me. Sorry, Thomas.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37142#Comment_37142

thomas....

Are you sure that you didn't switch back avatars a little too soon?

Ha ha , perhaps I did. I may risk offending just to put it back for a bit [<:o)] <-- close enough?

I wasn't attacking back or being defensive.

Thanks Russ, I knew you weren't I just needed to clarify on my end.

Here's an umbrella. [um] It might help stave off some of my dry humor. Though I have no idea how.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37163#Comment_37163

Thomas,

Are you sure you're not channeling George Somsel?

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37153#Comment_37153

I believe this is a memory leak.

Kevin, next time you notice this can you take a look at your task manager and post the memory numbers before and after a restart with the same resources.

If you're seeing a leak, it might help others for us to track this one down.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37168#Comment_37168

Are you sure you're not channeling George Somsel?

Either that or I'm wearing my Pavich hat today. Has to be the second choice, I didn't say a word about interlinears.

Jon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37153#Comment_37153

Logos is just very slow!

Maybe
but it sounds like there are some specific problems on your system. I'm
also running quad core (Q6600) and 8gb RAM (DDR2-800), I have a
slightly different HD setup with a RAID 0 array across 2 drives, though
probably each drive slightly slower than yours. At 2 years old my
system is on the edge of the target range which Logos 4 should run
well...

For comparison:

1. For me typing is more or less instant.

2. For me Logos
4 is the same as any other program, instantly draws to screen. Never
had issue like 'seeing it draw itself'. Are you video card drivers up
to date? DirectX up to date? I note that your video card is at the
budget end of the Geforce 8 series, only 256mb RAM - maybe this is the
limiting factor?

3. Loading times similar for me, and in my opinion acceptabe (or I've just got used to it [:)])

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37193#Comment_37193

Logos is just very slow!

Maybe
but it sounds like there are some specific problems on your system. I'm
also running quad core (Q6600) and 8gb RAM (DDR2-800), I have a
slightly different HD setup with a RAID 0 array across 2 drives, though
probably each drive slightly slower than yours. At 2 years old my
system is on the edge of the target range which Logos 4 should run
well...

For comparison:

1. For me typing is more or less instant.

2. For me Logos
4 is the same as any other program, instantly draws to screen. Never
had issue like 'seeing it draw itself'. Are you video card drivers up
to date? DirectX up to date? I note that your video card is at the
budget end of the Geforce 8 series, only 256mb RAM - maybe this is the
limiting factor?

3. Loading times similar for me, and in my opinion acceptabe (or I've just got used to it )

Well if it is my system then why does every other program run just fine. And what I did not mention is that when Logos is open EVERYTHING is sluggish. Not just Logos. For example, I am typing and it is pretty fast. But there are long delays at times even in Firefox. BTW I am also running Windows 7 64 Bit. Are you? That could be an issue. I doubt it because I have the same problems on a slower system running Windows 7 32 bit and I was also running the beta on a vista system and it was very slow in the same way.

I think the problem is with "perception". Maybe people are used to slow moving software so they don't notice it on Logos 4. I am not used to it. I am used to things snapping to as my system is pretty fast most of the time.

BTW we are not on the edge of the target. Our systems were cutting edge 2 years ago. They are still pretty fast in comparison to what most people here are likely using. Most people today have dual core systems, not quad core. Most have 4 or less GB of ram. So this should run well on my system if it was not just so slow. It is clearly a problem with Logos 4.

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37171#Comment_37171

I believe this is a memory leak.
Kevin, next time you notice this can you take a look at your task manager and post the memory numbers before and after a restart with the same resources.
If you're seeing a leak, it might help others for us to track this one down.

Are you saying the next time I notice the slow down? It's slow from the get go. It just goes from slow to glacial over time.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37153#Comment_37153

1. When typing notes in every program I use when I type a letter it INSTANTLY shows up on screen. In Logos it takes often a second to three seconds to appear. Usually it is closer to a second.

2. When I click windows in most programs I am running, like Firefox, Logos 3, WordSearch, they instantly draw on the screen. With Logos it can take a few seconds for it to even respond and then I can sometimes visibly see it draw itself.

Kevin, have you tried watching the logs while you're having speed issues? I was having the slow typing problem in notes when I discovered that it would start syncing notes changes as soon as I started using notes. I turned off Use Internet, and now I type happily. Granted, I think there are severe problems with the sync manager using up too much CPU. And that would explain the slow downs that go away when you restart.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37153#Comment_37153

I have a Quad Core system with 8 GB of Ram and a very fast 1 TB drive running at 7200 rpm with a 16 MB cache. I also have a GeForce 8500 video card. This is a very fast system. I do Photoshop crunching of huge RAW picture files very fast. Logos is just very slow!

This is odd. My system doesn't seem to be quite as good as yours and yet I'm not having the problems you're having with slow downs. I will notice some lag if the information window is open (but I don't ever use that, except to test functionality).Right now I have one Greek interlinear open (NA27), 4 Bibles (ESV, LEB, + 2 NIV's) and 5 commentaries (Baker NT, Word, Lloyd-Jones on Ephesians, IVP Bible Background and the Spirit-Filled Life Study Bible). I have no lag issues.

This suggests something other than general hardware spec's at work here. Seems to me that one suspect would be background tasks, or driver issues.(One person reported significant gains by turning off "Tea Timer" from Spybot Search and Destroy.)

Here's a bit of a long-shot: What brand of nVidia GeForce do you have? I ask because I once made the mistake of upgrading an EVGA brand nVidia GeForce driver from the nVidia site. I began having display issues and program slow-downs on some applications. I had to uninstall the nVidia driver, reboot and install the driver update from EVGA.

In reading through the system requirements, I notice that DirectX is required. Have you run dxdiag (64bit version) to check for problems with DirectX issues? I wouldn't expect any, but it's cheap and quick to check. And you never know.

Reading Bob's post yesterday about how .NET and WPS write directly to the chip (CPU?), L4 is a qualitatively different program from just about anything else out there. So it's not surprising that you're not seeing prob's with other programs, but you are with this one. You shouldn't be, with the system you have, but you are. This seems to suggest something specific to your system. But as far as I know, it could be anything from a bad BIOS byte to a faulty CPU core, or from a poorly designed hardware driver to an overly aggressive background task.

BTW,my specs: Dell Studio XPS 435MT; Win7 64bit Home Premium; 6GB DDR3 RAM; CPU: Intel i7-920 2.67GHz (8MB L3 cache); Video ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512MB)

Jon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37216#Comment_37216

Well if it is my system then why does every other program run just fine.

That's the question! if I was in your shoes I guess I'd be updating
drivers and trying a better video card if I had one around, disabling
aero; since the issues seem primarily to arise from graphical problems.
If I had to hazard an answer to the question, I'd guess it's to do with the graphical nature of the architecture that Logos 4 is built on... The only reason I responded is I think its helpful for you to know that
other people aren't having the same problems - or in other words, it is
not clearly a problem with Logos 4 in general, just the way Logos 4 is
running on your system.

(I'm also running Windows 7 x64)

BTW we are not on the edge of the
target. Our systems were cutting edge 2 years ago. They are still
pretty fast in comparison to what most people here are likely using.
Most people today have dual core systems, not quad core. Most have 4 or
less GB of ram. So this should run well on my system if it was not
just so slow. It is clearly a problem with Logos 4.

I
take your point here - but - I have a new laptop which on the surface
sounds less grunty than my PC. Dual core mobile CPU, 6gb RAM, 512mb ATI
graphics card; compared to my 2 year old PC - Quad core, 8gb RAM, 1gb
ATI graphics card with 2 GPUs on one board. But everything runs faster
on the laptop, Even indexing in Logos 4 goes faster on the laptop
despite the fact that the indexer will max out all four cores. In other
words, the architectural improvements in CPUs and chipsets in the last
2 years do make a difference to performance even when the clock speeds don't sound
that much bigger.

Greg Gray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37263#Comment_37263

Kevin, would you mind taking the time to go through some speed tests as defined in the following link? http://community.logos.com/forums/t/4562.aspx

I have the problems that you describe on one of my systems (that happens to be the one I use the most and is the newest, most memory fastest video card etc.)

I have found ways to make things lock up pretty bad speed wise - the worst of which I describe in the thread I referenced above.

I think there are some definite bugs when it comes to speed. The logos response seems to be that our systems are not fast enough - but I'm not convinced that is the real problem. When a tab refuses to switch focus and halts the system for 4 seconds to up to 80 seconds (yes I can reproduce 80 second delays). This is not a slow computer, this is a bug. When one tool can display the same information significantly faster than another tool, this is not a slow computer it is an issue with the code.

I am not trying to to be hard on the logos teem - I have confidence they will work things out - but most people that are complaining have systems that should be more than capable of switching between tabs:-)

And there are some tools and combinations of tools that bring some systems to a crawl. (exegetical guide for me) Logos 4 is downright snappy as long as I stay clear of some tools and only use my custom guides - but when I start using the default guides then problems start.

I hope we keep working away at this and find the root causes - and not make people with perfectly good systems feel like they have to go out and buy new hardware.

Scott S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37262#Comment_37262

Reading Bob's post yesterday about how .NET and WPS write directly to the chip (CPU?), L4 is a qualitatively different program from just about anything else out there.

Rich,

I searched Big Bob's posts from yesterday, but couldn't find this one. I'm curious to read this, if it isn't too much trouble, could you point me to where it is?

I did notice a link to another site, is this related? http://blogs.msdn.com/text/archive/2009/08/24/wpf-4-0-text-stack-improvements.aspx

Thanks in advance,

Scott

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37526#Comment_37526

I searched Big Bob's posts from yesterday, but couldn't find this one. I'm curious to read this, if it isn't too much trouble, could you point me to where it is?

Look here at about the 5th paragraph starting with "The big decision we made...":

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/4318/35672.aspx#35672

Rob Suggs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37154#Comment_37154

Don't sweat it, Russ. Nobody likes Thomas around here, but we regard him as part of the process of spiritual maturity. Thomas is just another trial used by God to build our character, that we may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. I figured that big picture of him on my Logos home page (from a BLOG, by the way [;)] was actually a cathedral gargoyle from one of the media resources until I finally saw the caption. Fortunately, by that time, it was ready to rotate off the page and it's much more aesthetically comfy using my home page again.

Tags: JOKE, THOMFOOLERY, SHENANIGANS, BLACKATTACK, JEST, FLAME RETARDANT

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37545#Comment_37545

Don't sweat it, Russ. Nobody likes Thomas around here

It is my pleasure to contribute to your maturity Rob.

Somebody should. [:P]

Rob Suggs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37557#Comment_37557

Hope I don't need to retag that as JOKE. Lot of that going around. You are loved, Thomas. [:)]

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37576#Comment_37576

Aha I knew it!

Scott S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37535#Comment_37535

Look here at about the 5th paragraph starting with "The big decision we made...":

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/4318/35672.aspx#35672

Rich,

Thanks for pointing out Bob Pritchett's excellent post. It should be flagged in the forum as "must-reading" because of the background and perspective it provides in the development of Logos. I was impressed by Logos commitment to help users with old PC's by continuing to support L3, despite the extra costs that will entail.

I also like the explanation for the greater memory requirements. Big Bob writes: "you're essentially loading a second operating system/platform into memory". (Old time PC users would say: wow, that's "bloat".)

Thanks again Rich!

Scott

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37673#Comment_37673

Rich,

Thanks for pointing out Bob Pritchett's excellent post.

You're welcome. It helped me begin to understand what may be happening with some who are getting less than optimal response from L4.

Seems to me L4 would require not only a lot of RAM, but also a fast CPU (with lots of L1-L3 head-room).

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37171#Comment_37171

I believe this is a memory leak.
Kevin, next time you notice this can you take a look at your task manager and post the memory numbers before and after a restart with the same resources.
If you're seeing a leak, it might help others for us to track this one down.

maybe it is not a leak per se.

I left it open for about 6 hours and the memory usage on the system changed very little. Now I also did not use it much during that time.

To prove to me that you are not having any speed issue or at least very few. I would love to see a screen cast of someone using lots of tabs open while typing notes into a verse note. If you can do that and post it so I can see what I would be seeing if my four very different machines were not so slow.

Here is a quick one for me.

http://www.screencast.com/t/MmI1ZDI5YTg

Note that the typing is showing up very slowly in the note but I am typing very quickly. I type about 70 words a minute.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37799#Comment_37799

http://www.screencast.com/users/rpavich123/folders/Jing/media/09bc0fcf-57ac-4e50-b13b-42f35ddacf6e

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37869#Comment_37869

http://www.screencast.com/users/rpavich123/folders/Jing/media/09bc0fcf-57ac-4e50-b13b-42f35ddacf6e

Well. Bully for you. Did you notice the extreme lag I was having?

IMO any lag at all should never occur when simply typing text into a program. But I can handle it if it is just a split second. But when you type three words before any of them show up, there is a real problem. I'd like to help them find a fix, but they have not even commented here.

Bill Gordon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38297#Comment_38297

I find Logos 4 to be very fast when I use my customized guide to do just the things I need and want. In fact, I find the speed on my laptop to be just as fast as those in the tutorial videos.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38297#Comment_38297

Well. Bully for you. Did you notice the extreme lag I was having?

Kevin,

I wasn't trying to rub your nose in it...it's perplexing...why your laptop and not mine?

My specs aren't tip top....just average or less...

I agree...a lag is the kiss of death for me...I hate it.

Tim Engwer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37216#Comment_37216

I agree that on my machine (2GB ram , 160GB HD, 2 GHZ processor dual core) it is also more sluggish than any other program I own. All other are very quick and snappy even with my configuaration. I did notice that for the most minor tasks there is a hit of over 50% on the processor. This doesn't seem normal to me.

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38316#Comment_38316

Well. Bully for you. Did you notice the extreme lag I was having?

Kevin,

I wasn't trying to rub your nose in it...it's perplexing...why your laptop and not mine?

My specs aren't tip top....just average or less...

I agree...a lag is the kiss of death for me...I hate it.

Forgive me. Now that I read that it did sound like I was being quite snippy. In fact I was genuinely saying congratulations. I am sincerely happy for you that it works. I was not AT ALL being snide. I am at this point laughing as I type thinking, "That guy must have thought I was a real piece of work." Again sorry!

Edward hyndman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38297#Comment_38297

Just for the added information Kevin I notice the same lag when typing into notes. Only when typing into notes, in all other respects Logos 4 runs quickly on my system. AMD Phenom 9950 quad-core and 4gb ram running vista. The notes typing lag means I can complete a 7 word sentence before the 5th word appears on screen. (To be fair I do touch type.) However, this lag is unpredictable. I cannot replicate it easily. If only a few panels are open and the note I am typing into has little in it already then there is not a lag. If there are several panels and I have a number of items added to the note the lag is more likely to occur.

The typed information does show up eventually

Eddie

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38337#Comment_38337

"That guy must have thought I was a real piece of work."

I must admit...I was wondering

Sorry for the confusion...I hope this gets worked out soon..

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38358#Comment_38358

I will say that my L4 is choppy. Sometimes when I type in notes. All the time in switching the "home page" back and forth. (not that I just sit there and do that)...

All the time when I scroll my bible and I've got 3+ windows linked. All the time when I minimize and maximize L4 (and when I maximize it... it never goes back to a "full" window, I have to manually do that)... There are other examples.

So... it is not a "perceived" problem... but a very real one.... I just don't complain much about it, cuz I figure it'll get worked out eventually, and I could always use a little bit of "patience training"... lol

david charles

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37263#Comment_37263

I still have Quick Verse 4.0 on my machine. It searches MUCH faster than L4. I am very disappointed with this upgrade :-(

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38344#Comment_38344

For various reasons, we're using the rich text editor that comes as part of WPF. And it is slower in general than other rich text editors. We'll be looking to see if there are ways to speed this up. Sorry for the inconvenience....

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37153#Comment_37153

I just wanted to second your experience. I'm running an 8-core (dual 3 GHz Xeons) with 16 Gb of RAM with Logos 4 launching from a 10,000 RPM Velociraptor (fully defragged with lots of free space) drive on Windows 7 x64, and Logos 4 is by far the slowest software on my system. When I launch the application it takes from 8 to 12 seconds for the homepage 'ribbon' to appear (it can take upwards of 20 or 30 seconds for the entire home page to appear, but I believe that's simply network latency due to the program retrieving data from Logos on what is going to be displayed). When I open the search window and type g:p, it can take 10 or 15 seconds before the drop down list is populated with Greek words (I just tried it now, and it was instantaneous, but every other time, it has been relatively slow). Often times when scrolling in various windows, or clicking on a report, etc., my title bar will display (Not Responding) for a few seconds.

That being said, I believe the performance will improve with time. I read the Logos developer's blog from time to time, and from what I've seen (I'm a developer myself), the poster's there are very savvy and will ferret out any resource (not Logos resource) contention issues. I am immensely happy to see Logos utilizing multiple CPUs (from everything I saw, Logos 3 was not written with parallelization in mind). As Donald Knuth said: "Premature optimization is the root of all evil."

Because you mentioned Photoshop, one of the nice things about it, is that you can specify how much RAM the application is allowed to carve out for itself. If Logos made their application 64-bit and it was running on a system with adequate RAM, all Logos resources and indexes could be loaded into memory which would increase certain operations by several orders of magnitude (latency between accessing a hard disk vs. accessing memory). However, if the slowdowns we're experiencing are due to Window Drawing API limitations, then that speed up would be mitigated. Just as a test, I launched both the x86 and x64 versions of Photoshop CS4, and they each took about 12-13 seconds. Perhaps the launch time for Logos isn't so bad.

All in all, I think it's a great program that is experiencing, and will experience for some time, growing pains.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38570#Comment_38570

Matt,

Aside from the fact that I understood about every 7th word...I'm glad to hear that you see improvements and understanding from the Logos staff...

From what you wrote...it seems like it's not ALL hardware but a "coding-tweaking" that will yield results?

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38592#Comment_38592

Matt,

Aside from the fact that I understood about every 7th word...

...LOL!!!... Glad I had just sat my coffee down right before I read that... That echos many of my experiences when reading some of our more technically savy brothers and sisters....

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38592#Comment_38592

From what you wrote...it seems like it's not ALL hardware but a "coding-tweaking" that will yield results?

Hi Robert,

More or less, yes, that's what I'm saying. The QA team, beta testers, and developers have obviously done a superlative job at getting the product this far, but, it's simply the nature of the software game that it isn't until your code gets out into the 'real' world on a massive scale that the really interesting bugs rear their heads, and as I have seen on the Logos developer logs, it looks like they have some good debugging guys on staff.

Matt

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38682#Comment_38682

I want to be clear. I have focused on notes, but it is not at all just notes that is causing this problem. Last night decided to start over and unintalled and deleted everything. I reinstalled and was running a clean install without any beta residuals. But the whole program is still just very slow. And it is a building thing, It seems fast at first but within about 5-10 minutes it slows down and sometimes to a craw.

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38717#Comment_38717

I also sometimes get a full screen blacked out window that says at the top "Logos 4 not responding" for about 3-5 secs when the program is doing certain functions... not all the time... it is a bit random.

Michael Birney

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38717#Comment_38717

I have no clue if this is universal, or just my machines - when I first installed v4, and for the first 2 days I had 2 anti spyware programs running. I was getting frustrated at the lag time, so I kept stopping services, unloading programs, etc..., especially since my home machine ran v4 fast.

I turned off the anti spyware programs, both of them, and that made a huge difference. The anti-spyware didn't seem to using up resources in an unusual way, they just seemed to be slowing down logos 4.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38852#Comment_38852

I also get the "Logos 4 not responding" for several seconds. I will start a new post to see who else is experiencing this.