Well, that didn't last long: Brannan's Greek Apocryphal Gospels/Fragments
Well, it's getting into late March and I periodically scanned to see what would come up for air before Bob puts the final stake through the heart of that best of all Bible software ever written (yes .... Libronix 3).
But then the new pre-pub from Rick Brannan showed up for Logos4. Oh wow!!
Well, it's certainly one I can NOT resist, and of course affordably priced at $40. How does Bob make money??
http://www.logos.com/product/17854/greek-apocryphal-gospels-fragments-and-agrapha
And can you BELIEVE this list ?!!
Infancy Gospels
The Protevangelium of James
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Passion Gospels
The Gospel of Peter, consisting of P.Cair 10759, P.Oxy 4009, and P.Oxy 2949
The Gospel of Thomas (Greek Fragments), consisting of P.Oxy 654, P.Oxy 655, and P.Oxy 1
The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate) and the Descent of Christ to Hell
Post-Resurrection Gospels
The Gospel of Mary, consisting of P.Ryl 3.463 and P.Oxy 3525
Fragments
P.Egerton 2
P.Oxy 840
Fayum Gospel Fragment
P.Cairo 10735
P.Oxy. 1224
P.Merton 51
Agrapha
Sayings in the Canonical New Testament Outside of Gospels
Ac 20.35
1Co 7.10–11
1Co 9.14
1Co 11.23–25
2Co 12.8–9
1Th 4.15–17
Sayings in Additions to New Testament MSS
Mt 20.28, Bezae
Mk 9.49, Bezae
Mk 16.14, Washingtonianus (the “Freer Logion”)
Lu 6.4, Bezae
Lu 10.16, Bezae
Jn 8.7; 10–11, Bezae
Sayings in the Apostolic Fathers
Barn 7.11
1Cl 13.2
2Cl 3.2
2Cl 4.2
2Cl 4.5
2Cl 5.2–4
2Cl 8.5
2Cl 12.2–6
2Cl 13.2
2Cl 13.4
Sayings in Justin Martyr
Dialogue with Trypho 35.3
Dialogue with Trypho 47.5
The write-up says '2012'. I can't wait!!!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Comments
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Thanks for posting this! I hadn't seen it[H]
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added my pre-order, thanks.
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Just saying but the Migne collection is much better value than any other Greek resource on here and yet is hardly going anywhere:
http://www.logos.com/product/16530/patrologia-cursus-completus-series-graeca-part-1
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DMB said:
the new pre-pub from Rick Brannan showed up for Logos4. Oh wow!!
Well, it's certainly one I can NOT resist, and of course affordably priced at $40.
Thanks for the heads-up, I pre-ordered this! And I do hope Logos keeps up publishing tings that let you postpone your withdrawal from this product and the forum for yet another month, quarter, year, decade...
[A]
Have joy in the Lord!
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Thanks, DMB.
I'm looking forward to working on this one! I have a small blurb on my personal blog here: http://www.supakoo.com/rick/ricoblog/2012/03/14/NewLogosProjectGreekApocryphalGospels.aspx
Whether or not it actually ships in 2012 is dependent upon how fast this pre-pub is subscribed to. Remember, we typically only start development once something moves into "Under Development".
There are some larger chunks that will need to be scanned/keyed (Infancy & Passion Gospels, but not the Thomas fragments) from Tischedorf and Swete. Some of them are rather long, and Tischendorf's material will take some doing because his print edition uses some unfamiliar ligatures (not to mention a very unhelpful typeface that has incredibly similar glyphs for mu and nu). And many of the fragments will need new transcriptions as we have available images in published sources, but no available transcriptions. And the morphology, while largely automated, will still take some doing. And none of this starts until the pre-pub is fully subscribed.
So thanks for mentioning it here. I hope to write a post or two for the Logos blog to publicize it some more, but that won't happen for a few weeks.
In the meantime, tell your friends!
Rick Brannan | Bluesky: rickbrannan.com
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Well George, actually I was surprised Rick put a 2012 date on it. I certainly hope there's an interest level, before the new Mayan calendar update comes out.
For anyone wondering 'why do I need this'???
The books and fragments Rick has put together into one resource is most useful when you're dealing with a lot of the recent 'popular' questionings of the NT and most specifically the gospels.
For example, several of the listed writings are used by Ehrman in his discussion on post-1st century varients as likely alterations in the text (depending on the manuscripts). Indeed, if you google some of them, you'll find quite a number of debates.
I do not know Rick's selection strategy but his proposed resource will be quite handy in the future, when you don't want to have to search around for greek/english parallels, or maybe don't have that strong a grasp on greek.
Surprisingly, here in Sedona, quite a few of my friends are quite familiar with these early writings ... and they're not Christians. Being informed is a big plus, when chatting with them.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Thanks again DMB.
DMB said:I do not know Rick's selection strategy but his proposed resource will be quite handy in the future, when you don't want to have to search around for greek/english parallels, or maybe don't have that strong a grasp on greek.
The selection strategy involved reviewing many different editions of "Apocryphal New Testament", "Apocryphal Gospels" and other books of this type and selecting a superset of material known in Greek that they contained. There are a few fragmentary items I'd like to also include but cannot because decent photographs of the fragment(s) are (seemingly) not available and the existing transcriptions are all under copyright.
Also, based on the comment about "greek/english parallels," I should make clear that the edition will be of the Greek text only (plus introductions and bibliographies). That is, it is not an interlinear edition, it is just the Greek text with morphology. But where English translations are available in Logos (e.g. James' Apocryphal NT, which is in many base packages, I think) it should sync.
Thanks to all who have pre-ordered so far. Hopefully we'll be able to do it, and hopefully it will help you in your understanding of the sorts of ideas and documents floating about in the first few centuries of Christianity, and also with your Greek.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
For those interested in the Greek Apocryphal Gospels, there was a blog post on the resource today:
http://blog.logos.com/2012/03/whats-so-cool-about-greek-apocryphal-gospels/
We're getting close to putting this thing under development!
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Hey I am in. Hey Rick it took a really long time for the pre-pub order to go through on my account info….server going bonkers?
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
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Room4more said:
Hey I am in. Hey Rick it took a really long time for the pre-pub order to go through on my account info….server going bonkers?
Thanks!
If anything is causing the server to go bonkers, it is probably Logos March Madness, as much as I'd like to think it's the Apocryphal gospels resource.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Thanks. whats the estimated delivery....any insight/?
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
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Room4more said:
Thanks. whats the estimated delivery....any insight/?
Nothing begins until it goes into production, and then it'll take some time to get going. I don't have any good estimates at present, though I certainly hope by the end of the year. Depending on my workload, I hope to be writing introductions and bibliographies in late spring.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Well, the moon is lined up with Jupiter (plus Venus is somewhere nearby; I think the mesa is blocking her pretty face). But what a group of 'lucky stars':
(1) The progress bar is ALMOST THERE!!! (Mr Brannon's reputation for good work must be well known).
(2) The blog description is even better than the resource write up
and best of all ....
(3) It'll be in interlinear format (not including the glosses, but that's ok).
Thank you Rick!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
(3) It'll be in interlinear format (not including the glosses, but that's ok).
GROAN !! When will Logos get its act together and get away from the interlinear format?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Does anyone know if it will have English translations of the items or will they only be shown in Greek?
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Now George ... please don't upset my computer. He likes long lines of morph tags. Give him a stack of morph tags and he'll tell you almost as much as a young Phd candidate (he is a computer, after all). Morph tag patterns move across languages with surprising ease and survive fairly significant over-writes/expansions. Plus those funny letters make no sense to him (grew up west of Mt Hermon).
The irony in this thing is that the pattern analysis software used to be doing a fairly sophisticated job figuring out who people were, without needing their permission. Pre-FB.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
(3) It'll be in interlinear format (not including the glosses, but that's ok).
Whether or not the display will be 'interlinear' (with lemma and morph as the lines) is unknown. I don't think it will be at present..
- Rick
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Hi Frank
Frank Fenby said:Does anyone know if it will have English translations of the items or will they only be shown in Greek?
The texts themselves will only be in Greek. It will be morphologically analyzed (so, morph and lemma) to facilitate keylinking.
Translations of most of the texts (especially the longer ones) are in M.R. James' Apocryphal New Testament, which (where material is in both) will scroll with the Greek side-by-side.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Rick Brannan said:
The texts themselves will only be in Greek. It will be morphologically analyzed (so, morph and lemma) to facilitate keylinking.
Translations of most of the texts (especially the longer ones) are in M.R. James' Apocryphal New Testament, which (where material is in both) will scroll with the Greek side-by-side.
Rick, I can not find my coupon code for this…can you access my account and send one via email...Thanks.
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
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Hmmm ... I wondered about Venus missing out of the western sky (but very interesting as the moon nudges out Jupiter).
What is in the resource?
The resource includes morphologically analyzed Greek of each of the included gospels, fragments, and agrapha. So it will be searchable and useable much like you’d use any morphologically analyzed Greek edition (NT, LXX, Apostolic Fathers, Philo, etc.). In addition, I’ll be writing introductions and providing bibliographies for each major document and fragment. The agrapha will probably have a single introduction and bibliography.
This is pretty much the same format we used for the Old Testament Greek Pseudepigrapha with Morphology. The goal is to provide a useable Greek text and, because the material is not that familiar to many, decent introductions to each of the major documents giving some background, history, and applicability to one’s studies of the Bible.Okie dokie.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Rick Brannan (Logos) said:
I should make clear that the edition will be of the Greek text only (plus introductions and bibliographies).
Some good news for those who haven't seen the latest blog:
"[Short aside: As I've worked on the transcriptions, I also translated them because I found it helpful for reference. So the resource will also include translations of the fragments and agrapha, which is new — not even mentioned on the Pre-Pub page yet!]"
Rick Brannan (Logos) said:There are a few fragmentary items I'd like to also include but cannot because decent photographs of the fragment(s) are (seemingly) not available and the existing transcriptions are all under copyright.
Since you're in 'good news mode' [:)]: you haven't happened to locate some new photographs as well? Isn't it possible to gain access to the fragments themselves, for you or a good photographer (depending on location).
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Thank you fgh ... I would have missed it. And thank you Rick for an interesting writeup. Look forward to 'next week'!!
For anyone curious and enjoys digging around their Logos resources, you might want to look at the Syriac Curetonianus at Luke 22.34 'Jesus said to him, I say to you, that before the rooster crows today two times you will deny three times that you know me.' (Kiraz translation)
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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fgh said:Rick Brannan (Logos) said:
There are a few fragmentary items I'd like to also include but cannot because decent photographs of the fragment(s) are (seemingly) not available and the existing transcriptions are all under copyright.
Since you're in 'good news mode'
: you haven't happened to locate some new photographs as well? Isn't it possible to gain access to the fragments themselves, for you or a good photographer (depending on location).Hmmm, strange, the fragment I quoted from on the blog post isn't listed in the (current) list of fragments on the pre-pub page. Digging around citations and bibliographies, I was able to locate an article in Patrologia Orientalis (1906) that provided a transcription of P.Vindob 2325 and notes in French.
Even stranger, this post of mine on my personal blog is working with a fragment that isn't on the pre-pub page list either.
(To be clear, I'm not saying this last one will be included. It might be. I'm still considering it.)
On your last question, this project does not have a budget for international travel and high-quality photography. But I'll have to consider that for the next project.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Rick Brannan (Logos) said:
Hmmm, strange, the fragment I quoted from on the blog post isn't listed in the (current) list of fragments on the pre-pub page.
Sure? The blog says "P.Vindob. 2325 (aka “The Fayûm Fragment”)", and the prepub page does list a "Fayum Gospel Fragment".
Rick Brannan (Logos) said:this project does not have a budget for international travel and high-quality photography.
I didn't think it did. I meant a local photographer, unless they happened to be somewhere you were going anyway. But I guess even that may be more expensive than I imagine. And coming to think of it, surely any responsible owner must already have had his collection photographed long ago, even if he hasn't released the photos?
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:Rick Brannan (Logos) said:
Hmmm, strange, the fragment I quoted from on the blog post isn't listed in the (current) list of fragments on the pre-pub page.
Sure? The blog says "P.Vindob. 2325 (aka “The Fayûm Fragment”)", and the prepub page does list a "Fayum Gospel Fragment".
Oh, that's right. That's the one I *had* to find because it was already mentioned in the product description due to my oversight. It's P.Berol. 11710 (mentioned in the follow-up blog post) that isn't listed but I was able to find readable photos for. Thanks for the correction.
On photos, I don't think there will be any photos. There are just too many hoops to jump through to get decent photos and then publish them.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Rick Brannan (Logos) said:
On photos, I don't think there will be any photos. There are just too many hoops to jump through to get decent photos and then publish them.
I wasn't talking about photos for publishing, I was still talking about
Rick Brannan (Logos) said:There are a few fragmentary items I'd like to also include but cannot because decent photographs of the fragment(s) are (seemingly) not available and the existing transcriptions are all under copyright.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Thank you Rick!! It even downloaded 'early' (usually later in the evening).
Looks great; it's going to take me a while to see how to use this (and learn from it).
Since I'm not too swift on Logos, if you see this and wish to answer:
- When you right click the greek, it shows the lemma (good!). If you choose, Bible Word Study, the new resource doesn't show in the Textual Searches section. It seems similar to Philo and Joesphus and the Classics. Maybe I'm not clear. I indexed and re-started.
- Also the right-click doesn't show the root but the BWS of course does. I'm guessing the specific root isn't linked (which is ok).
Again, thank you. As you can see from this thread, it was quick work!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Hello, DMB. Can you please tell me what the file names of these resources are? I can't seem to locate them in my resource folder and what to move them to my other offline installation. Thanks, Martin.0
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Martin Grainger Dean said:
Hello, DMB. Can you please tell me what the file names of these resources are? I can't seem to locate them in my resource folder and what to move them to my other offline installation. Thanks, Martin.
If you don't mind that I'm not Denise, here they are (If you do mind, ignore this).
LLS:GRKAPOCGFAINT and
LLS:GRKAPOCGFA
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
If you don't mind that I'm not Denise, here they are (If you do mind, ignore this).
Thank you, George for your prompt answer. Why should I get upset? Any help it's appreciated. Martin.0 -
Thank you George.
Don't know about you, but this is an interesting resource. Much of it I have already read/studied. But a lot of little pieces are grouped together conveniently. Several items I'm tracking down: 'leaf of the priest' (looks like a reflective plate one could see if one was 'justified', with the latter the most interesting), 'undefiled daughters of the hebrews (how common a phrasing?), and the ability to 'make a sanctuary' in ones room (I'd assume this is phrasing well past the temple destruction) All from logosres:grkapocgfaint;ref=NTApocrypha.PJ_4:4;off=177 )
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Several items I'm tracking down: 'leaf of the priest'
Perhaps it's the fig leaf from the garden. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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DMB said:
- When you right click the greek, it shows the lemma (good!). If you choose, Bible Word Study, the new resource doesn't show in the Textual Searches section. It seems similar to Philo and Joesphus and the Classics. Maybe I'm not clear. I indexed and re-started.
This is true, and has been reported elsewhere. Looking into addressing it, but it will require an update to the software.
DMB said:- Also the right-click doesn't show the root but the BWS of course does. I'm guessing the specific root isn't linked (which is ok).
Roots are only available in the Greek NT and Hebrew Bible. If a word in the apocyrphal gospels happens to be an NT word, then yes, BWS will associate a root. But for Greek, this data is not encoded anywhere but with the Greek NT data at present.
DMB said:Again, thank you.
You're welcome. Hope this stuff is helpful in your studies!
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0
