Compulsive Forumitis

I'm probably guilty on this count too, but it seems to me that discussions tend to get out of hand -- not relationally but as far as sticking to the topics. There is much "information" here that is no more than guesswork. It is frustrating to try to find answers in a deep sea of not-so-useful posts and many jests...

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TCBlack

As one of the guilty party, you are of course correct Francis. No excuses, simply a proposal that we get a "lounge" forum to isolate that.

spitzerpl

I'm probably guilty on this count too, but it seems to me that discussions tend to get out of hand -- not relationally but as far as sticking to the topics. There is much "information" here that is no more than guesswork. It is frustrating to try to find answers in a deep sea of not-so-useful posts and many jests...

I have recently been convicted that the jesting may be out of hand and hampering real help that could be given. I plan on cutting back some...I will try not to fall, but if I do, restore gently, please :-)

spitzerpl

It is frustrating to try to find answers in a deep sea of not-so-useful posts and many jests...

And may I also add...Thank you for this post and thank you for the spirit in which it was given.

To my jesting buddies. It was fun. Thanks for the laughs and I love each of you in the Lord. You may still see a joke now and then, but I'm gonna try to keep them edifying and included in purposeful posts.

I can imagine someone new coming on and reading some of our posts without context and getting the wrong impression :-)

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37699#Comment_37699

Philip, I've thought of all those points, but what a blast this has been. Ok, I'll compose myself.

Hey Francis, It seems such a pity to waste this thread. The title after all .... can I hijack this one for raw frivolity?

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37703#Comment_37703

Philip, I've thought of all those points, but what a blast this has been. Ok, I'll compose myself.

Hey Francis, It seems such a pity to waste this thread. The title after all .... can I hijack this one for raw frivolity?

Or maybe just create one with a Title like: Pure jesting Fun Don't read for help, just laughs

It is helpful to have a bit of levity to make the day brighter at times.

Chris

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37735#Comment_37735

I know. I am not anti-fun you know. It's just that it's been getting out of hand and the whole forum deal is a mess. You gents have been commenting on the jesting part, but I think the guesswork part is also a part of the problem. I do think the camaraderie is good as long as the forums still serve the support purpose that it is advertized for.

Chris, your suggestion reminds me of a part in Madagascar: the "fun" side and the side "that means business".

Blessings,

Francis

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37737#Comment_37737

Francis,

Your point is true. But keep in mind these guys have been online very long hours for over a week and this is a free donation. I have seen many people helped as i also have been helped and pickup tips.

So mercy is a thought that comes to mind. And balance is also something that i have seen a lot in God's word.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37737#Comment_37737

I think the guesswork part is also a part of the problem.

What do you mean by this? Too many opinions? And not enough answers?

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37737#Comment_37737

I know. I am not anti-fun you know. It's just that it's been getting out of hand and the whole forum deal is a mess. You gents have been commenting on the jesting part, but I think the guesswork part is also a part of the problem. I do think the camaraderie is good as long as the forums still serve the support purpose that it is advertized for.

Chris, your suggestion reminds me of a part in Madagascar: the "fun" side and the side "that means business".

Blessings,

Francis

I agree that the Fun SIde has been extreme at times and hijacked several threads.

I also know that some of these guys are putting in a lot of help and comic relief helps when you answer the same question over and over. It isn't the fault of the questioners. They are new to the forum. The forum is hard to search (notice the understatement). Many topics are not well named (I did one today where I forgot to start with Crash: and once it is done you can't change it). They don't know what's gone before.

Some times we are just guessing. But in some situations that's all that is possible. I agree there are some people who are just speculating about what Logos is doing or when or why, that's okay in a thread if it is titled "Speculation about Bob's Brain processes" but not in a thread "Help my resources won't install"

We did one tonight about copying verses. We were guessing, but got a solution.

I don't think you mean that. I think you mean the other.

Thanks for the rebuke. I'm guilty. But I'll still try to bring some levity once in a while.

Next Thread idea: Why Thomas is our Cover Boy on all My Handouts!

[:)]

Chris

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37754#Comment_37754

Todd, Chris caught my meaning: speculations or improvised ideas as opposed to what we know or have tried.

Grace is present in both senders and receivers and I appreciate the gracious responses.

Blessings,

Francis

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37798#Comment_37798

speculations or improvised ideas as opposed to what we know or have tried.

I have no problem with speculative solutions; I think they can be very beneficial and usually result in a solution. I can agree that we need to do our best to make sure we are answering the question someone is asking.

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37798#Comment_37798

I agree. I have also done it. But so long as we post on topic a sentence or two in that post that is meant as fun is not out of hand. But when the entire post is a joke, it is not helpful.

Damian McGrath

Well, as THE guilty one on a thread you started, I apologise for hijacking that thread.

But, the only thing that has kept me going here has been the ability to let off steam.

I will gradually withdraw from these forums responding only when I see a cry for distress that goes unheeded.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37798#Comment_37798

Todd, Chris caught my meaning: speculations or improvised ideas as opposed to what we know or have tried.

Grace is present in both senders and receivers and I appreciate the gracious responses.

Blessings,

Francis

Actually, I think speculations are ok. Sometimes we have nothing else. Plus, it keeps the thread at the top of the list where the developers are more likely to see it. An empty thread quickly gets lost in the crowd.

As a software developer myself, I find collaborative speculation to be a good way to approach a problem.

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37818#Comment_37818

I'm going to continue to speculate on solutions to problems, but resist the urge to speculate on what a feature does or what Bob is thinking. Although right now I think he's thinking what a great group of people he gets to work with and what a great party they are having. Oh, rats I broke my commitment. [:(] [<:o)]

Chris

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37699#Comment_37699

It is frustrating to try to find answers in a deep sea of not-so-useful posts and many jests...

And may I also add...Thank you for this post and thank you for the spirit in which it was given.

To my jesting buddies. It was fun. Thanks for the laughs and I love each of you in the Lord. You may still see a joke now and then, but I'm gonna try to keep them edifying and included in purposeful posts.

I can imagine someone new coming on and reading some of our posts without context and getting the wrong impression :-)

I agree with all you and Francis and others are saying. I am a little bit confused how to understand the meaning of speculative and not-so-useful answers. I think that it is inevitable, since no one of us is an expert, just user who is using the program a little bit longer than others. To get an expert answer, you need to see the Logos logo under the name :-) And I found I go to read the posts from Bradley, Scott, Melissa, Dan and many others, and of course Bob, without even looking at the subject :-)

Sometimes we think we can help, but more experienced guy looks at the post and say, well, that is not the best answer, not the most efficient way to do the thing or to solve the problem. Well, than it is the time to write a better one. I think for many new users the biggest frustration is seeing that nobody has noticed their post, not that the answer did not solve their problem yet (if it tries to help). I think it is not a problem to even correct some statement in somebody's post, if we know the info was not correct.

We have to understand the goal is to help each other in getting Logos to work better for us. If we miss and give some misleading advice, I am sure it is not in planning to do wrong but to help. If somebody else can give better help, let it come and come quickly :-)

I really appreciate all the prompt answers of you guys who know. I think of my beginnings with Logos and how much I was helped by you with my PBBs and other things. Forums have one big problem and I think this makes the problem bigger. It is very hard to find anything here. It is like looking for a piece of paper in a big pile of papers. No real structure. That's how I feel it. But still they are very helpful and the communication from Logos personnel is very vital many times.

MJ. Smith

It is frustrating to try to find answers in a deep sea of not-so-useful posts and many jests...

I understand what you mean - the lack of tags, standard terms, etc. makes it very difficult to find it one's difficulty has already been addressed. However, I think the problem is exacerbated by it not being obvious to what forum a message belongs and the lack of good patterns of how to ask questions - not something that can be dictated but something that evolves over time as people discover what they need to provide in order to get a useful answer. But PC threads get hijacked by Macs get hijacked by iPhones get hijacked by people who haven't a clue what they are running. 'Tis a muddle.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37846#Comment_37846

So the Moral of the story is: we'll try to behave like civilized hooligans. <--joke.

We'll keep our threads as clear as possible with only a rare jab ^^^^^^^^ when we absolutely can't help it (but we'll try to save those for other spots).

Francis, as well said that he's not anti fun. And we don't want Damian to leave us - (sincerely)!

However, I don't think I'll stop speculating. As has been stated, Speculating as to causes and solutions has already lead to several solutions. It would be quite handy if this forum had a "mark this post as the solution" button which would then propagate.

But even that is problematic as Bohuslav adequately stated:

Forums have one big problem and I think this makes the problem bigger. It is very hard to find anything here. It is like looking for a piece of paper in a big pile of papers.

Solution

I think the greatest thing we can do is to graciously point folks to the FAQ
when an FAQ is asked.

[quote]Marvin, that's a great question about Logos and the internet. The solution is right here: The Internet

If we do that often enough over time, the same questions may begin to disappear as folks get "trained" to look at the FAQ
first.

ALSO:

If someone asks a question that hasn't been answered before, and if we know the answer. Let's take up the responsibility to post a full and complete answer if we can. Additionally let's put our full and complete answer on the FAQ
and then point them over there:

[quote]Dear user X, that's a great question about resources. Here is your answer <paste answer here>. In the future, if you need to find this again, just look at the FAQ
where I have posted it right here (Resources -FAQ
) for future users too.

The benefit is that we'll spend LESS time on the forums answering questions, others will spend less time asking the same questions, and we'll be able to create threads titled "pick mercilessly on Phil today - because we all love him".

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37735#Comment_37735

Philip, I've thought of all those points, but what a blast this has been. Ok, I'll compose myself.

Hey Francis, It seems such a pity to waste this thread. The title after all .... can I hijack this one for raw frivolity?

Or maybe just create one with a Title like: Pure jesting Fun Don't read for help, just laughs

It is helpful to have a bit of levity to make the day brighter at times.

Chris

As the priest, Francis Mulcahey in M*A*S*H said on one occassion "Jocularity, jocularity!" [:D]

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37949#Comment_37949

As the priest, Francis Mulcahey in M*A*S*H said on one occassion "Jocularity, jocularity!"

I just busted out laughing; (i'm in a coffee shop) and the guy sweeping the floor looked like he was ready to call 911 if I got dangerous...

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37975#Comment_37975

I just busted out laughing; (i'm in a coffee shop) and the guy sweeping the floor looked like he was ready to call 911 if I got dangerous...

Francis, I'm sorry we are pathetic. We are so desperate to laugh we are hijacking a thread on limiting the jocularity. Oh Wretched men that we are...

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37977#Comment_37977

Philip...

that was just an observation...notice no smiley...

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37980#Comment_37980

that was just an observation...notice no smiley...

My Bad....

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37982#Comment_37982

I was afraid of that...no smiley on either post and now I've got you on suicide watch...

I was joking on both....

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37987#Comment_37987

I was joking on both....

HELP!!! I don't function well when trying to exist in reality!!!!!

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37987#Comment_37987

and now I've got you on suicide watch...

Remember the theme song of M*A*S*H

Suicide is painless,
It brings on many changes ...

Luuk Dondorp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37942#Comment_37942

Thomas,

I think this is an execellent idea, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't let the fun out. It was and is very tempting to wrestle through the forums to look were the fun is. In the meanwhile I was learning a lot of L4!! So, you folks weren't that bad after all. Not at all! And want to thank you - Thomas, Damian, Philip and others - for all those hours you dedicated (pro deo) to help all sorts of people struggling with questions about things already known or not known yet. The only thing is: it is not very structured, but I think this is because the way this forum works. Like a labyrinth.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38094#Comment_38094

The only thing is: it is not very structured, but I think this is because the way this forum works. Like a labyrinth.

Perhaps more like a tangled skein of wool.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38094#Comment_38094

I think this is an execellent idea, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't let the fun out

Oh, we won't kill all the fun. It's just too easy to make fun of Philip offhand comments.

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/38238#Comment_38238

Added a page to the wiki Tips from the Forum with cross links in the wiki. Ya'll might find this useful to use a link here or in the wiki when encountering repeat question.