PB: How to get Bible datatype to force a particular version?

In a PB I'm working on from a public domain text, I came across the following text:

"oleum peccatoris non impinguet caput meum" (Ps. cxl. 5, Vulg.)

I want the reference "Ps. cxl. 5" to be a link to that verse (Ps 140:5) in the Vulgate, so people can see the context of that quote.

Based on what I found in the wiki on Datatype Links in PB's, Bible Datatypes and Bible Verse Maps, I thought I'd figured out the right syntax for this:

"oleum peccatoris non impinguet caput meum" ([[Ps. cxl. 5 >> Bible+vul:Ps 140:5]], Vulg.)

But it doesn't get parsed at all. It just shows up in Logos exactly like that.

Any clues as to what I'm doing wrong? Or is this not possible in PB's?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

I haven't tested this, but using the data type name, not the internal name, should work:

[[Ps. cxl.5 >> BibleVUL:Ps 140:5]]

(Note that this forces the use of the Vulgate versification, and doesn't force it to link to the Vulgate; if your preferred Bible is the ESV, clicking the hyperlink will open it to Ps 141:5.)

NB.Mick

In a PB I'm working on from a public domain text, I came across the following text:

"oleum peccatoris non impinguet caput meum" (Ps. cxl. 5, Vulg.)

I want the reference "Ps. cxl. 5" to be a link to that verse (Ps 140:5) in the Vulgate, so people can see the context of that quote.

Based on what I found in the wiki on Datatype Links in PB's, Bible Datatypes and Bible Verse Maps, I thought I'd figured out the right syntax for this:

"oleum peccatoris non impinguet caput meum" ([[Ps. cxl. 5 >> Bible+vul:Ps 140:5]], Vulg.)

But it doesn't get parsed at all. It just shows up in Logos exactly like that.

Any clues as to what I'm doing wrong? Or is this not possible in PB's?

Hm. I just ran a quick check with BibleVUL instead of Bible+vul, as that's what I read the wiki datatypes page.

However, these datatypes specify a verse numbering scheme, not the resource to pick - so this does work in the sense that the correct verse is picked, but from my currently preferred bible. It gets clear if one considers that some of these datatypes stand in for various resources.

I have no idea how to tell Logos to choose the correct one - other than with a resource link logosres:vulgate;ref=BibleVUL.Ps140.5;off=-646

EDIT: Bradley was posting while I did the test & wrote up my post.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356534#Comment_356534

other than with a resource link

just to make this clear: Resource links do work, but will bring up exactly the resource selected (not one available based on datatype) - and a double verse display which is nice here, but disturbing elsewhere.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356560#Comment_356560

Resource links do work, but will bring up exactly the resource selected (not one available based on datatype)

That's problematic. I wish there were a way to bring up an available resource based on the datatype.

I guess I'll have to satisfy myself with bringing up the preferred Bible with the proper verse, which using datatype BibleVUL will do, and let the eager user who wants to follow up in the Vulgate (if he/she has it) do their own homework.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356532#Comment_356532

I haven't tested this, but using the data type name, not the internal name, should work:

[[Ps. cxl.5 >> BibleVUL:Ps 140:5]]

(Note that this forces the use of the Vulgate versification, and doesn't force it to link to the Vulgate; if your preferred Bible is the ESV, clicking the hyperlink will open it to Ps 141:5.)

Bradley, just to confirm why this is so (at first I thought this is a bug, now I think it's a severe design restriction).

Unsing datatypes on non-bible resources will work and open - if I understand this correct - any one (which would probably mean the highest prioritized of the available, if more than one) resource associated with this datatype. So for example [[Reference Eusebius >> Eusebius:Hist. eccl. 1.1.1]] will open the beginning of Eusebius' Church History - which on my system is in the Catholic editition of NPNF, but may be another resource in someone else's library, but always a resource tied to this datatype. Searching for < Eusebius = Hist. eccl. 1.1.1> will yield all links to this (only one hit in my library, from a footnote in another NPNF resource)

The behavior of the PB builder makes me assume that Logos can't distinguish the approx 100 bible datatypes. Searching for <bibleVUL = Jn 3:16> yields the same results as searching for <bible = Jn 3:16> or <bibleNA27 = Jn 3:16> (or bible+vul / bible+na27).

Am I correct that all bibles are tied to all bible-datatypes, regardless of language etc?

In other words, linking to a specific version always needs to be a resource link, not a datatype link.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356630#Comment_356630

Am I correct that all bibles are tied to all bible-datatypes, regardless of language etc?

Yes! BibleBHS expresses a bible book/chapter/verse from a BHS bible and the verse mapping that provides ensures it will open to the appropriate book/chapter/verse in another bible e.g. ESV, which may be your preferred bible. If the book/chapter is not part of the canon of that bible then the next prioritised bible with that book/chapter will be used.

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356702#Comment_356702

Opening to a specific translation, or defaulting to highest prioritised if not in library would be a huge step forward for PB

PLEASE

(Do I have to get down on my knees and beg)?

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356709#Comment_356709

Opening to a specific translation, or defaulting to highest prioritised if not in library would be a huge step forward for PB

PLEASE

[Y]

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356630#Comment_356630

Am I correct that all bibles are tied to all bible-datatypes, regardless of language etc?

It's probably more accurate to say that all bible datatypes are tied together via a central verse mapping 'database', and therefore a verse in any bible can be mapped to any other bible. The way Bibles are tied together works something like this:

Bible 1 --> Bible Datatype A --> Verse Mapping --> Bible Datatype B --> Bible 2

In other words, linking to a specific version always needs to be a resource link, not a datatype link.

Yes.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356709#Comment_356709

Opening to a specific translation, or defaulting to highest prioritised if not in library would be a huge step forward for PB

This would be extremely difficult to implement, given the current architecture of Logos - and it's quite rare that you need it. Normally, you can use resource links to achieve this. That's only not possible if there are multiple Bibles for a given translation and you can't predict which one is going to be present, and it's probably only the Vulgate and Septuagint that this would apply to.

What might be achieveable by Logos is for advanced prioritisation to treat the different Bible datatypes differently, so that we could add the Vulgate above our English translations, and use advanced prioritisation to limit it only to the Vulgate datatype. Unfortunately that doesn't work at the moment, because Logos treats all Bible datatypes identically when it comes to prioritisation. But if this could be adjusted - for advanced prioritisation at least, that would be very helpful.

Tim Hensler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356784#Comment_356784

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but why couldn't you use a Resource link instead of a DataType Link?

[[Ps. cxl. 5 >> logosres:vulgataclem;ref=BibleVUL2.Ps140.5]]

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356879#Comment_356879

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but why couldn't you use a Resource link instead of a DataType Link?

[[Ps. cxl. 5 >> logosres:vulgataclem;ref=BibleVUL2.Ps140.5]]

A resource link will do - but your link opens the Clementine Vulgata, mine above opens the Vulgate 3rd edition from 1969 and if Rosie choose logosres:vulgatesesb;ref=BibleVUL.Ps140.5 it would open the Vulgate 5th edition from 2007 contained in SESB. And logosres:novavulgata;ref=BibleNVUL.Ps141.5 would open the Nova Vulgate (note that it counts the Psalms differently). Fine for me - I have all four, but what if someone owns just one edition?

We also see that datatype links alone are not the solution, since we have three of them for four resources.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/356630#Comment_356630

The behavior of the PB builder makes me assume that Logos can't distinguish the approx 100 bible datatypes. Searching for <bibleVUL = Jn 3:16> yields the same results as searching for <bible = Jn 3:16> or <bibleNA27 = Jn 3:16> (or bible+vul / bible+na27).

Am I correct that all bibles are tied to all bible-datatypes, regardless of language etc?

Logos 4 does distinguish the 100 Bible data types (they come from Logos 4, after all [:)]), but the search syntax doesn't currently allow you to perform a strict search for a verse reference based on the versemap in which it's encoded. It currently assumes that if you're searching for Ps 30:1, you're interested in all references to that verse, whether they're encoded as Ps 30:1 [ESV], Ps 30:1 [KJV], Ps 30:2 [BHS], Ps 30:2 [NAB], Ps 29:2 [LXX], or Ps 29:2 [VUL] (or ~90 other ways).

In other words, linking to a specific version always needs to be a resource link, not a datatype link.

As already mentioned in some other responses, linking to a specific resource probably isn't what you want. Maybe it is, if you're referencing the specific word choice in one particular English translation, but more often it seems that you might want to link to the users' most preferred resource within a certain class of Bible. For example, Logos has multiple editions of the Vulgate, the Hebrew Bible, the LXX, the Greek New Testament, etc. Unfortunately, there is currently no syntax for "open Jn 3:16 in the user's preferred GNT", so it's not possible to express this intent.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/357399#Comment_357399

Logos has multiple editions of the Vulgate, the Hebrew Bible, the LXX, the Greek New Testament, etc. Unfortunately, there is currently no syntax for "open Jn 3:16 in the user's preferred GNT", so it's not possible to express this intent.

Since there is already a way to open Jn 3:16 in the user's preferred Bible, it is for precisely those other kinds of Bibles (Vulgate, Hebrew Bible, LXX, Greek NT), that we need a syntax for open this verse in the user's preferred (Latin, Greek, Hebrew) Bible. I would like to request this as a new feature. Not hugely high priority, but for eventually, if there's ever time...I'm not holding my breath.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/357400#Comment_357400

This is something I have also requested,