Another forum for non-Logos stuff
Hey Logos crowd,
I'm new to the forum here and like the community feel. After reading the forum guidelines though, I understand this isn't the best place to ask certain questions or post certain statements.
- Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc.
BUT ... I have the occasional question that I would like to present to people who take Bible study seriously and are pleasant with those form different Christian traditions or interpretive "camps".
SO ... are there any forums that you all are part of that have a similar spirit to the Logos forums, where I could ask non-product related questions? In this case an interpretation of John19:27, which I doubt would become a heated debate.
and another thought ...
... if my question comes from reading a commentary I own through Logos would that make it fit the criteria? 
Comments
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They are understanding and do allow us some leeway.
Usually, but not always, the ‘general’ is used for things “general” – such as you have done…
As towards ANY theological debate or discussion, there are many, and I do mean MANY, that are dedicated to that purpose. But I see no reason why you cannot ask for directions.......
Hope this helps.
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Johann said:
if my question comes from reading a commentary I own through Logos would that make it fit the criteria?
Lets try. [:)] What's your resource & question?
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alabama24 said:
Lets try.
What's your resource & question?Well since you ask, and I had it already typed up ...
John 19:27 - from that hour [he] took her to his own home.
The only commentary I have on researching this is the one from the EBC. I hope to someday get some good commentaries on John (like Pillar's), but right now I just spent quite a bit on 'the Madness' and I will have to wait.
The EBC title from Merrill C. Tenney holds a position I've never really considered: that this verse is saying at this time John (assumed, of course) and Mary left the site of the crucifixion and then John returned before the 'After this ...' in the next verse. With my limited resources I haven't been able to find any suggestion that anyone else thinks this, as everything else I have just focuses on the the responsibility of the care of Jesus' mother going to the disciple.
Anybody know if this is a common or minority view, or if Tenney is the only one out there reading it this way?
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Johann said:alabama24 said:
Lets try.
What's your resource & question?Well since you ask, and I had it already typed up ...
John 19:27 - from that hour [he] took her to his own home.
The only commentary I have on researching this is the one from the EBC. I hope to someday get some good commentaries on John (like Pillar's), but right now I just spent quite a bit on 'the Madness' and I will have to wait.
The EBC title from Merrill C. Tenney holds a position I've never really considered: that this verse is saying at this time John (assumed, of course) and Mary left the site of the crucifixion and then John returned before the 'After this ...' in the next verse. With my limited resources I haven't been able to find any suggestion that anyone else thinks this, as everything else I have just focuses on the the responsibility of the care of Jesus' mother going to the disciple.
Anybody know if this is a common or minority view, or if Tenney is the only one out there reading it this way?
I don't own Tenney's commentary, and have never heard this interpretation. It is probably a minority view, and I suppose the answer would be in the time that Jesus gave his mother to the beloved disciple to take in. Was it right before he took the vinegar, or was it soon after the soldiers put him on the cross? I've never really thought about it before, and either is possible, but Tenney's view deserves some thought. I suppose the big problem with this text from a traditional viewpoint is that it tells us that the Beloved Disciple lived in Jerusalem, whereas John bar Zebedee lived in Galilee.
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Welp. I have the OL package, but it may help others who have the more exhaustive Library's if you would be willing to share which package you have....this way you/they can narrow down a commentary statement.....leading to less repititive posts....
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
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67.1 καιρόςa, οῦ m; χρόνοςb, ου m; ὥραa, ας f: points of time consisting of occasions for particular events—‘time, occasion.’
Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, vol. 1, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains, electronic ed. of the 2nd edition. (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 627.
5610. ὥρα hṓra; gen. hṓras, fem. noun. Hour, a time, season, a definite space or division of time recurring at fixed intervals, as marked by natural or conventional limits. Figuratively, of a season of life, the fresh, full bloom and beauty of youth, the ripeness and vigor of manhood meaning bloom, beauty. In the NT, of shorter intervals, a time, season, hour.
Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary : New Testament, electronic ed. (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000).
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Johann said:
...I just spent quite a bit on 'the Madness' and I will have to wait.
Lots of us are looking back on "the madness" with exhilaration and depleted Logos-designated-fundage.
"I read dead people..."
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Thanks for your responses.
I've highlighted the applicable parts. I don't think that John doesn't include stuff from the synoptics is a great reason to say he left and came back, unless you are already leaning that way. Under that theory John wasn't around for quite a bit that the synoptics include. I guess for those that hold this view, you could never look at a Pieta the same way.
Room4more said:if you would be willing to share which package you have
I'm started with the Logos iOS app and realized I could get resources without buying a package, I've only bought individual resources so far. I'm still trying to decide which package to buy, but that is another discussion.
I also didn't mean to make it sound like this is not a good commentary, if it came across that way.
I'm guessing it is not a common view, so if anyone has heard of someone else putting forth this theory I'd like to see that.
Thanks again.
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I honestly don't see John leaving Jesus during this time, I believe a better translation of the Greek would read:
"and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home."
just my 2¢...
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Merill Tenney is a fine scholar, but I think that is pressing the language a bit too literally. If someone made that statement to me, I would understand it to simply mean that from then on John took responsibility for Mary's care. I think that is the point, not that at that very moment he took took her to his house. I would have never thought to interpret it the way he did, and do not think John intended it that way. I have never seen it interpreted that way in another commentary.
Also, if someone's interpretation is too unique and novel, it is suspect.
While in this case I can't see that it would matter very much, that is the kind of approach to Scripture that can lead to some dangerous errors. The common sense plain meaning approach is much preferable. If we constantly press a figure of speech too literally, we are going to be misled.
Just my opinion.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
I agree with Golder on this; it's figurative as to John assuming responsibility for her in an ongoing sense.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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