Hebrew pronunciation question and dagesh

shark tacos

Two questions about dagesh and the Hebrew
word דְּבָרִים
which Logos tells me this is pronounced
"debariym" (to speak)

The Hebrew word דְּבָרִים
begins with a dalet (ד)
with a dagesh in it (the dot).

Why is the dagesh
there? It does not double the consonant, so I don’t get it’s
function. I think that this is a weak dagesh that does not affect
the pronunciation in modern Hebrew, but would in ancient Hebrew. So
how would a dalet with a dagesh be pronounced in ancient Hebrew?
The second letter is
bet (ב)
which does not have a dagesh in it, so it should be pronounced “V”
not “B” so why isn’t the word pronounced “devariym”?

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George Somsel

Two questions about dagesh and the Hebrew word דְּבָרִים which Logos tells me this is pronounced "debariym" (to speak)

The Hebrew word דְּבָרִים begins with a dalet (ד) with a dagesh in it (the dot).

Why is the dagesh there? It does not double the consonant, so I don’t get it’s function. I think that this is a weak dagesh that does not affect the pronunciation in modern Hebrew, but would in ancient Hebrew. So how would a dalet with a dagesh be pronounced in ancient Hebrew?

The second letter is bet (ב) which does not have a dagesh in it, so it should be pronounced “V” not “B” so why isn’t the word pronounced “devariym”?

There are two types of dagesh. Obviously you are acquainted with one which is the doubling dagesh known as the "dagesh forte." This appears when there is a doubling of the consonant or a virtual doubling of a consonant. You will see it in such words as עַמִּיםwhere the root is actually עמם so that the dagesh indicates that there is a doubling of the mem. The second type of dagesh is known as the dagesh lene. This appears at the beginning of a word or of a syllable where the previous syllable ended in a consonant (never when there is a vowel preceding. Thus when you see a syllable ending with a consonant which has a shewa and it is followed by a consonant with a dagesh you are seeing an example of the dagesh lene. This may actually be in a transition from one word to another. If the preceding word ends with a vowel sound such as in the pl construct (־ִים), then there will not be a dagesh lene in the first consonant although it may be a bgdkft letter. With the dagesh lene the pronunciation if affected, but it does not indicate a doubling.

In דְּבָרִים (usually הַדְּבָרִים, see Deut 1.1 אֵלֶּה הַדְּבָרִים) you have what appears to be an exception. This makes a distinction between the piel form of the verbal (דִּבֵּר [See the account of the dealings with Pharaoh] and the nominal form). And, yes, the word IS pronounced devariym.

shark tacos

And, yes, the word IS pronounced devariym.

So does this mean there is a typo in Logos here?

George Somsel

And, yes, the word IS pronounced devariym.

So does this mean there is a typo in Logos here?

Where is the "here" that you are wondering about?

shark tacos

Where is the "here" that you are wondering about?

Logos transliterates דְּבָרִים
as
"debariym"

shark tacos

The second type of dagesh is known as the dagesh lene. This appears at the beginning of a word or of a syllable where the previous syllable ended in a consonant (never when there is a vowel preceding.

Okay, so looking at Exodus
4:9 I see that
וְלָקַחְתָּ֙
ends
with a tav with a dagesh in it which is preceded by a vowel. I would
read that “velakachet”
but Logos transliterates it as
wəlaqaḥəta so I wonder if
the dagesh here adds an “a” to the end?
The same is true for וְשָׁפַכְתָּ֖
which
again Logos transliterates as wəšapakəta
adding an “a”.
Am I on to
something here? And how does the dagesh
preceded by a vowel here fit in with the rule you mentioned?

I read in Mark Futato’s
Beginning Biblical Hebrew that “The weak dagesh is
also found in the letters ג
(gimel),
ד
(dalet),
and ת
(tav),
but the pronunciation in modern Hebrew is not affected” (p. 4).

Now
here’s something weird: in verse 10 the word דַּבֶּרְךָ
begins
with a dalet with a weak dagesh in it (which is incidentally preceded
by מֵאָ֥ז
ending
in a consonant) , and ends with a kaf with a vowel mark where I’d
expect to see a dagesh. Maybe the vowel mark floated up like a helium
balloon til to bumped the roof of the kaf...

George Somsel

The second type of dagesh is known as the dagesh lene. This appears at the beginning of a word or of a syllable where the previous syllable ended in a consonant (never when there is a vowel preceding.

Okay, so looking at Exodus 4:9 I see that וְלָקַחְתָּ֙ ends with a tav with a dagesh in it which is preceded by a vowel. I would read that “velakachet” but Logos transliterates it as wəlaqaḥəta so I wonder if the dagesh here adds an “a” to the end? The same is true for וְשָׁפַכְתָּ֖ which again Logos transliterates as wəšapakəta adding an “a”. Am I on to something here? And how does the dagesh preceded by a vowel here fit in with the rule you mentioned?

I read in Mark Futato’s Beginning Biblical Hebrew that “The weak dagesh is also found in the letters ג (gimel), ד (dalet), and ת (tav), but the pronunciation in modern Hebrew is not affected” (p. 4).

Now here’s something weird: in verse 10 the word דַּבֶּרְךָ begins with a dalet with a weak dagesh in it (which is incidentally preceded by מֵאָ֥ז ending in a consonant) , and ends with a kaf with a vowel mark where I’d expect to see a dagesh. Maybe the vowel mark floated up like a helium balloon til to bumped the roof of the kaf...

No, the Tau is not preceded by a vowel. It is preceded by a het with a silent shewa which indicates the closing of the syllable. The dagesh in the Tau is thus a dagesh lene making the Tau hard ("t" rather than "th"). The word would be pronounced wǝ-la-qah-ta. Ignore the modern Hebrew remark since we are not dealing with modern Hebrew.

In v. 10 the fact that it is preceded by a word ending with a consonant means that the dagesh is also a dagesh lene making the Daleth sound hard ("d" rather than "dh"). Also, the word is the piel of the verbal form ("speak" rather than "word"). The dagesh in the Beth indicates the piel and is prounced almost as though doubled (let's say like "dribble" where you don't really pronounce the "b" twice). the ךָ is the 2nd person ending "you" as in "you shall speak." ADDENDUM: I neglected to mention that this 2nd person ending is non-standard (though relatively clear). If you look at BHS 4.2 with Westminster Morphology, you will note that they have an asterisk by this form.

shark tacos

No, the Tau is not preceded by a vowel. It is preceded by a het with a silent shewa

Ah, yes of course. Okay that makes sense. Thanks.

The word would be pronounced wǝ-la-qah-ta.

Incidentally, when you write "w" do you mean as in "walrus"? I thought that it would be pronounced like a "v" as in "velvet".