Your input needed: Faithlife Study Bible
Comments
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Hi, Bob,
I heartily agree with Garrett's assessment of Mike S.'s contributions. I've been watching this thread since it opened, but have nothing new to add, and Mike says what I have been thinking and MUCH more besides.
I add my words of HEARTY appreciation of Logos to those of Garrett. For example, you give us a whole lot of really great free stuff. So I can swallow a subscription almost two years down the road[:D]
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Hello Bob,
Bob Pritchett said:I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts, as well as feedback on the FSB itself.
Thank you for looking for input. Here are my thoughts and some feedback on the FSB itself.
Until I came across your post here, I had not bothered to sign-up for the FSB. Main reason?--I don't particularly like the subscription model. I understand why you would like it (putting on my CPA hat), but as a customer I don't like it. Can't argue with free until March 2014, though! :-)
So, I thought I would give it a try. Here's my experience:
- Went to faithlifebible.com (using Safari on Mac). Enter "FREE" in the Coupon Code field and click the "Get It Free" button. This took me to https://faithlifebible.com/checkout which, except for the header and footer was totally blank.
- Fire up Firefox on Mac and try again. Same result.
- Too lazy to launch VMWare Fusion and try a Windows browser.
- Get out iPod Touch and go to faithlifebible.com. This time it works. Do all the stuff on the checkout page and get my confirmatory e-mail, etc.
- Download the app from the AppStore on my iPod.
- Initial launch is a bit slow, but subsequent ones are better, so not a big deal.
- App launches to John 1:1 in NASB, which is my preferred Bible. Start reading. Also clicking almost every link to see how things work and what's included.
- Within five minutes have discovered a repeatable CRASH. This reliably crashes the app every time for me. Simply do the following:
- Go to John 1:1
- In FSB, in the 1:1 In the beginning... article, touch the plus sign at the end of "agent of creation present with Yahweh from the beginning."
- In the expanded section, in the second paragraph where it reads "(compare Col 1:15-23; Heb 1:1-4)" touch the Col 1:15-23 reference to open the pop-up display of that passage.
- INSERT GRIPE HERE---> There seems to be a regression here to the old Logos App behavior where, if the text of the pop-up is more than fits in the window, the whole pop-up is not displayed. In this case, the pop-up displays only verses 15 through 19a, rather than allowing scrolling down to view the entire cross-reference (i.e., all the way to verse 23).
- In the pop-up of Col 1:15-23, the end of verse 16 says "have been created through Him and for Him." The words "created through" are in blue, implying a link to something. Touch the word created.
- The initial Col 1:15-23 pop-up disappears, and a blank pop-up one line high appears with the round spinning circle at the left of the pop-up.
- Wait about two or three minutes (have to wait, since the app is frozen).
- App CRASHES. Happens every time. Haven't bothered trying to click on other blue words in the Col 1:15-23 pop-up, but I'm guessing that the same thing would happen.
- By the way, the first time I loaded the infographic "The Days of Creation", it was painfully slow. Subsequent views of it are much better.
Hopefully you can get someone to address the crash noted above.
I have not yet spent much time with the FSB so I cannot comment much on the content. What I saw in the opening verses of John's gospel looked pretty good to me. Another poster said that the content was too conservative for him. That's NOT a problem for me!
Before I finish, I would like to make one more observation, Bob. As I do so, I am focusing for a moment NOT on the web version of FSB, nor on the desktop use of it in Logos 4. I'm focusing on the mobile version of FSB, particularly the iPhone/iPad version. My closing comment is somewhat related to what you said here:
Bob Pritchett said:We’ve made a huge investment in the Faithlife Study Bible; it is our largest editorial project by far.
....and here:
Bob Pritchett said:The FSB is our biggest content project ever...
....and here:
Bob Pritchett said:We know that some free mobile Bible apps have had as many as 40 million downloads. With a great study Bible, media, Bible dictionary, devotional content, and more, the FSB is an even more useful tool – and it is also free.
....Bob, from the little bit that I have poked around the FSB, it is clear that there is a great deal of content here. Hopefully it is accurate, spiritually helpful content. But in addition to content, when it comes to the mobile app space, there is a basic level of functionality that really is indispensable. I now have three apps on my iPod Touch from Logos--Vyrso, the Logos Bible, and FSB--and all three of them lack what is to me a basic level of functionality in a Bible app. Try going offline in FSB and searching for "eternal life" in NASB. It will take you at least 45 seconds for the results to show up compared to less than one second in Olive Tree. Then when you have scrolled 2/3rds of the way down the results list, then touch a search result to look at full context, then go back to your search results, there is no quick way to get back to the spot you were last at in the search results. Also, don't try to narrow the scope of your search on the Logos apps to just the four gospels or to Ephesians--it can't be done! Bob, maybe if you redirected some of your team's effort on content (or their effort on coming up with yet-another-mobile-app-to-do-the-next-great-thing-that-you've-envisioned) toward implementing some of the basic level of functionality that has been in your competition's apps for months (years??) you might get your apps downloaded 40 million times, too! :-)
(I'm being a little bit tongue-in-cheek here. I do make valuable use of the Logos apps, but I REALLY would like to see some of this basic functionality implemented.)
Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback.
Regards,
Paul Johnson
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Paul Johnson said:
....when it comes to the mobile app space, there is a basic level of functionality that really is indispensable. ...Vyrso, the Logos Bible, and FSB--...all three of them lack what is to me a basic level of functionality in a Bible app. Try going offline in FSB and searching for "eternal life" in NASB. It will take you at least 45 seconds for the results to show up compared to less than one second in Olive Tree. Then when you have scrolled 2/3rds of the way down the results list, then touch a search result to look at full context, then go back to your search results, there is no quick way to get back to the spot you were last at in the search results. Also, don't try to narrow the scope of your search on the Logos apps to just the four gospels or to Ephesians--it can't be done! Bob, maybe if you redirected some of your team's effort on content (or their effort on coming up with yet-another-mobile-app-to-do-the-next-great-thing-that-you've-envisioned) toward implementing some of the basic level of functionality that has been in your competition's apps for months (years??) you might get your apps downloaded 40 million times, too! :-)
[Y] +1
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Paul Johnson said:
Bob, maybe if you redirected some of your team's effort on content (or their effort on coming up with yet-another-mobile-app-to-do-the-next-great-thing-that-you've-envisioned) toward implementing some of the basic level of functionality that has been in your competition's apps for months (years??) you might get your apps downloaded 40 million times, too! :-)
Hate to be a naysayer about the FSB but I agree with these comments.
It seems that is a company wants to copy improve on what 40 million Bibles users, and 800 million social media users are doing, and at the same time charge rent for it, that it should at least be on par with the targeted competition.
Just saying...
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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To continue my summary, the third issue is the quailty of the actual product. (#1 - subscription method, #2 - quailty of scholarship is unknown)Paul Golder said:Hate to be a naysayer about the FSB but I agree with these comments.
It seems that is a company wants to copy improve on what 40 million Bibles users, and 800 million social media users are doing, and at the same time charge rent for it, that it should at least be on par with the targeted competition.
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I really wonder about the concern about the 'quality of scholarship' issue. I suppose Bob asked everyone the question, so answers are real concerns. True.
But I look around our church, especially in Sunday morning Bible class and see the Women's study Bible, the archaeology one, and so on. There's a bunch! I really doubt our pastor (who's the best, by the way) has checked them out though he'd know any issues from the web if there were.
I've bought several over the years intensionally getting ones I don't agree with; I can't remember ever checking the authors. I do go by the publishers (eg IVP, Fortress, etc).
After so many kudos for Bob & Co's concerns (and track record by the way), is the issue germaine to the target audience? Just wondering. For me it is but that's why I have a huge Logos library. For my friends at church; they only worry, if the ecclesiatical warning bells go off.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I've got to agree with the comments about search speed and narrowing my search results. Perhaps you should default the search box to the bible I'm currently reading, instead of my "Entire Library" ...Honestly, sometimes I know that I want to search just the New Testament, or even just the gospels, or just letters, or maybe just the wisdom books, etc. That's a rather basic Bible search feature.
However, in FSB on Android, I'm pleased to note that when I go to a result and see it's the wrong one, if I click the search button again it pulls out the search pane in exactly the same spot it was -- that's perfect.
Another thing that's not perfect is note-taking/I was really excited to finally get note-taking in an Android bible (and even more excited because they would integrate with my Logos library), but ...
- Trying it in service this morning revealed a major flaw: adding a note requires internet access. I want (need?) to be able to take notes offline and then sync them to the server later.
- There's no indication in the text that I've added a note, I have to open the community notes fly-out (which I can only do via the "Add Community Note" button?)
- After I wrote the note, I thought it hadn't been saved, because it seemed to have disappeared, but eventually a refresh showed it. That's frustrating.
- Obviously this feature isn't made for taking notes in a sermon (more frustration), because I have to attach the note to a specific verse, so I can't have all the notes for a sermon in one place unless the preacher sticks to a single Bible reference. It reminds me of the note taking in my Kindle Bible, except that note-taking there works offline, and I only need a connection to "share" my notes. Of course, searching is faster on the Kindle too ;-)
I like the idea of sharing notes with "my community" but I'd like to be able to:
- Take notes offline and share them later.
- Collect notes on various scripture references during a session into one document.
- See my notes (or rather, a hint that they exist) in-line in the text as a highlight.
- See highlights for notes from one or more of my community groups in-line as well.
There's one feature I wouldn't mine requiring an internet connection for, and that's taking notes "together" with someone else so we could see what each person's written ... guess I'll have to stick to OneNote for that.
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DMB said:
I really wonder about the concern about the 'quality of scholarship' issue. I suppose Bob asked everyone the question, so answers are real concerns. True.
But I look around our church, especially in Sunday morning Bible class and see the Women's study Bible, the archaeology one, and so on. There's a bunch! I really doubt our pastor (who's the best, by the way) has checked them out though he'd know any issues from the web if there were.
I've bought several over the years intensionally getting ones I don't agree with; I can't remember ever checking the authors. I do go by the publishers (eg IVP, Fortress, etc).
After so many kudos for Bob & Co's concerns (and track record by the way), is the issue germaine to the target audience? Just wondering. For me it is but that's why I have a huge Logos library. For my friends at church; they only worry, if the ecclesiatical warning bells go off.
Very very true. Most people who go to church do not look up or care about the scholarship that is behind their study bible. Most pastors are also not going to say 'do not use that bible.'
As a leader of the church, I do get asked for my opinion. If I say something like, 'I do not recommend Logos' FSB because of ...' The odds of them paying for the subscription is almost next to nothing.
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I just use Microsoft Word to take notes in sermon. Worry later where to attach them. Does OneNote or Evernote have British spell check equivalent to at least Word for Windows 2002?
Joel Bennett said:Obviously this feature isn't made for taking notes in a sermon (more frustration), [...] guess I'll have to stick to OneNote for that.
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I believe they both do. Certainly OneNote has always seemed capable in Americanish, and I am pretty sure it's as multi-lingual (dialectal?) as the rest of MS Office [;)]
You know, I really do find Logos' (Windows) desktop software the best for taking notes in sermons though -- being able to click on a verse and send it to the notes document I have open in the other pane is great, but having it all hyperlinked together (and the highlights in my Bible) afterward is priceless. It's just not always practical to take notes on a laptop during sermons, and I'd love to have that functionality on a phone/tablet. Maybe I'll get a Windows 8 tablet later this year and this won't matter [:P]
Unix said:I just use Microsoft Word to take notes in sermon. Worry later where to attach them. Does OneNote or Evernote have British spell check equivalent to at least Word for Windows 2002?
Joel Bennett said:Obviously this feature isn't made for taking notes in a sermon (more frustration), [...] guess I'll have to stick to OneNote for that.
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Bob Pritchett said:I’d
appreciate hearing your thoughts, as well as feedback on the FSB
itself.Hi Bob,
the FSB is a great concept, releasing the 'Study Bible' from the constraints of
a heavy, small-print, limited content, paper product to an electronic resource
with all its associated features and possibilities.Here are
some thoughts on take up of it, from my point of view (sorry for the number of words - they just sort of kept on coming!):- Firstly, it is a (minor)
perception issue. The fact that 'community notes' can be integrated
into FSB initially appeared to me to seem like the notes in the FSB were
'all' from the 'community.' Most people want high quality notes, not the musings of
the average user. I know it was a mistaken perception from not
having looked into it much at all, initially, but it is one that a few others might
also have had. If the community notes and interactive aspects are marketed less prominently, and the main personal use is more to the fore, I think it would be more attractive. - Second, the payment model
has difficulties with (1) 'free' meaning a free trial period before a
'subscription' applies, (2) the relatively high price for the on-going
subscription compared to the one-off purchase of a hard copy study bible,
and (3) many people's preference of an outright purchase to a
subscription. The last of these could be addressed by offering (1) a
purchase version with a one-off price which would have updates limited to
12 months and with optional updates later on with costs proportionate to the period since purchased/upgraded, or (2) a subscription version which is cheaper than a full purchase but which
is limited to 12 months at a time, or (3) as I think someone else mentioned, different levels of notes available
for different prices (entry level either free or at a low cost, with the full or premium notes available for a higher cost). - With only a sideways glance
of FSB initially, I imagined it to be another way to access Logos
resources, or an alternative way to access/purchase/subscribe to what I
already have (in other forms) in my Logos software or on the Android (or Apple) app.
I think that it could be more clearly promoted as an electronic 'Study
Bible.' There are several popular 'study bibles' in use, and for me
the marketing for FSB didn't seem to promote it sufficiently within that product
category. - Another problem, however, is
precisely that it is a 'study' Bible. While sales and marketing
people might look at the millions of 'Bible' apps that have been
downloaded, there is a fundamental error in comparing those apps with the
FSB. While they have in common that they are apps, they are
nevertheless very different products. Other 'Bible' apps are
essentially Bible 'reading' apps, not Bible 'study' apps. To make a hard
copy comparison, what are the statistics between the proportion of 'Study
Bibles' sold to plain 'Bibles'? I would estimate it at lower than 0.1%, although I really don't have any data to go on. The point is
that if there is a market for say 40,000,000 Bible 'reading' apps, we should
then expect that there might be a market for maybe only 40,000 Bible 'study'
apps. At least initially, but as more people see the advantages of
FSB, it could be adopted by those who don't normally use 'study' Bibles. - However, the biggest problem
seems to me to be that it is difficult to move many people from an
approach to personal use of the Bible that centres of devotion/piety or
evangelism to one of more serious Bible 'study'. Most people want to
'read' the Bible alongside their devotional resources, but not 'study' it
using other resources (I know that reading the Bible is studying it, but
the comparison I make is that one is just using the Bible while another
consults other helpful resources by learned authors). There is a
cultural shift needed here. Without minimising the importance and
spirituality of devotional use of the Bible on its own, too many people
seem content to have their serious Bible 'study' packaged in sizeable
portions in Sunday sermons, or weekday Bible 'studies', etc, by others.
People want Bible 'reading' apps, but they don't want Bible 'study' apps as much, so it can't be expected to go as viral as Bible 'reading' apps. However,
with such a great product, the culture of reluctance to get into Bible
'study' might be crossed. Yet, I expect that for many who would not
think of themselves as natural users of Bible 'study' software, they may
need to be encouraged into joining this group, by helpful marketing.
Here is where the sales model is problematic again, to me.
Purchase-based sales make good gifts, time-limited subscriptions less so. But if an entry-level subscription price were low enough, I would get it for all the family, in the hope that they would want to upgrade soon! - Also, of
those who do Bible 'study,' and who are not already using Bible software,
but are using hard copy commentaries etc, I would imagine that they would
seem to prefer changing to Bible software for their primary use, rather
than an app. It is easier to recommend them to get more serious, to
take it up a level, and purchase an entry level Logos 4 package, than to
use an app that seems to be either to be a more complicated sideways move, or perceived to be a less serious way of
doing Bible 'study' than their existing hard copy method.
A major selling point on the FSB is 'seeing' it in use as a
‘study’ Bible. The video is excellent in showing this. If marketing was also to use still shots (e.g. in emails or webpages for those who don't want to view the video) that show it’s use being very similar in its basic use to a hard copy ‘study’ Bible then I think that that would enhance understanding of the product much more,
and help it take off.0 - Firstly, it is a (minor)
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Bob Pritchett said:
The FSB is our biggest content project ever, and we have a lot of marketing effort coming up. But we started with our existing user base, and have been surprised at how quiet the response (and sharing with others) has been. I think there are some community pricing titles that get more buzz! [smile]
A few thoughts:
- It took me a long time to figure out what it was. I guess because I am not that smart, but since faithlife and the FSB came out at the same time, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how the two relate. I probably should have just accepted the FSB as study bible and not messed with faithlife. I watched the videos and still didn't understand how the two related or why they were being released at the same time. I had to play around with it for a while to figure out the concept. I imagine most of the people that are interested in a starter version aren't going to take the time to figure out how the two relate. The videos on the site gave a good overview, but it didn't give any details. It takes a while to figure out and most people won't take the time.
- It seems the app is most useful from a tablet. I don't have a tablet. Any bible stuff I do on my phone are quick look-ups of verses or bible memory apps. The rest is on my computer.
- Community notes are cool and could be useful for my community group, but think about what it will take to get them using it (this is for only 4 couples). First, I have to get them to sign up for FSB, then they have to sign up for faithlife, then I have to get them on our group, then I have to teach them how to create a note and how to post it to our group (which i don't get a notification for). Also, this assumes that all of these people have a tablet, which only 2 of the 8 do. I know they can use it on Biblia, but that's something else I would have to teach them to do. I have a hard enough time getting people to read the section or do the study, much less try to get them to do all of this. It's really just too much.
I love the idea, just haven't seen how I can integrate it on a broad spectrum yet. Maybe just telling them its another app on their phone they could use would get them to try it out, but trying to get people to utilize the full functionality doesn't seem realistic right now.
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Jason rust said:
First, I have to get them to sign up for FSB, then they have to sign up for faithlife, then I have to get them on our group, then I have to teach them how to create a note and how to post it to our group (which i don't get a notification for).
Jason,
Once the sign up for FSB they have signed up for Faithlife. They can access Faithlife directly from the homepage within the app. Also if you are all studying the same lesson the note will show up at the place they add it, so when you read the verse the note shows up. Also they could share the Scripture to the group and note that they have added a note there.
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Thank you everyone for your comments and feedback. Here are some links that you may want to explore:
- Faithlife Study Bible Editorial Staff and Contributors Sample List: http://faithlifebible.com/contributors
- Lexham Bible Dictionary Contributors Sample List and Editorial Staff:
http://lexhambibledictionary.com/contributors/ - Faithlife Study Bible Statement of Faith: http://faithlifebible.com/details
- Logos Bible Software Publishing Philosophy:
http://www.logos.com/about/publishing-philosophy
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Joel Bennett said:
There's one feature I wouldn't mine requiring an internet connection for, and that's taking notes "together" with someone else so we could see what each person's written ... guess I'll have to stick to OneNote for that.
Joel, this can be done by creating a group and sharing the info with the individual (s) in that group. "Focus on the Word" is one such a group.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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I like the app and use it for my sermons. I attach a note to a verse of scripture (I have created a group just for my sermon notes, I am the only member) drag the passage to my favourites folder, and let it sync. Most of my work is done on the desktop. When I go to church, I preach from the tablet. I should add, that I seldom preach from a manuscript.
It would be good if the notes would pop up like the scripture references does, rather than flying out.
Why not allow the user to purchase the FSB, then offer an upgrade for a small fee. Similar to the Theological Journal Library. This can be done once a year.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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I would expect any electronic Bible to at least do a concordance search. How do you do a concordance search in Faithlife? Even my paper study Bibles have a simple inadequate conconrdance. I must be missing something. It must surely do concordance searches.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Thank you, John, for gathering four links into one email for those of us needing to know something about the perspective of and the contributors to the FSB and the LBD.
Is there any chance that the institutions at which the contributors received their highest degree could be included.
Thank you, too, for your patience as we customers come up with ever more requests!
May the peace of Christ be with you and your colleagues.
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I have to agree with many of the posters already that the price is the main factor for my reservations in recommending the FSB to anyone beyond the FREE period.
Other than being well formatted for Logos, there isn't much that I have seen (at this point) that is much different from other digital or "dead-tree" study bibles that seems worth paying $29.95 a year for access.
The LEB is available for FREE to anyone using Logos and the other Study Bibles that Logos offers, max out at a one-time price of $39.95 (for just the notes). I just cannot see the value of the online community features at a $30/year price point.
Not to sound rude, but that price point premium sits as well to me as the old AOL dial-up premium.
~$10/year for access, plus a guarantee of regular additions to the study notes seems a bit more reasonable compared to the prices available for other mobile apps.
I know this is more than a mobile app (with the availability of the FSB in the desktop version of Logos 4), but we are not purchasing the FSB, only licensing use of the resource through the yearly subscription.
As the resource stands, I will have to pass on it once the FREE period ends, and could not in good conscience recommend such a pricey resource to others.
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Subscription = No Interest
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I recognize that the FSB is a good business model because a company needs ongoing revenue to support operations so they can stay in business. Gradually sales of new product will level off and the support expenses must be paid. I shudder to think what will happen when new sales start falling and eventually you have to shut your operation down. That would take the Logos library management away and leave us with whatever local resources we have until computers and software change enough so that it will no longer run. I want to think I am making a library that will last forever and that when I die I can give it to someone else to give them the benefit of what I was able to put together.
However, it seems the FSB is sort of like a timeshare property which I also have experience with. Prospective clients are given free access and then when they start to like the product, they find they not only have a large initial purchase(logos 4 library) but they have ongoing maintenance fees also. They gain prospects from current owners with perks for recommendations, but the client has to commit to an ongoing expense and they will remember you as the one that got them involved if that expense becomes unbearable. So I do not recommend people for timeshare properties and probably will not recommend Faithlife due to the monthly charge that will eventually appear. I do recommend Logos4 to everyone and will continue doing this. My fear is that you are expanding too quickly, hiring too many people and putting at risk your continuing operations to support your primary purpose which is to keep everyone's purchased library running until the Lord returns.
Do you have a succession plan for your company? You are selling more than just books. I realize as I write this that some day we might be asked to pay an ongoing maintenance fee just to keep your servers running and someone on staff to keep the software updated to current technology. I'll stop because I don't like to think how dependent we are on your continued survival for the large investment we have made in our libraries.
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I am having trouble with faithlife community notes. On some computers the community notes post and other computers they don't seem to post. Is there a way to fix this as our church is trying to use faithlife for daily devotions between members
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Like the issue of 'who wrote it', the subscription is also interesting. At our church, we regularly subscribe to broadcasted material (or DVD) that usually comes with a book. Each person (typically us ladies it seems) pays about $20 with the ones having job challenges covered by someone else. We dutifully fill out each chapter each week, watch the presenter and then go over our work and thoughts.
I wonder if the 'subscription' concept is being compared to a paid library (which I prefer), and not to how many churches work in small groups.
I still think everything is in the packaging. A church that wants to get folks involved in Bible study ESPECIALLY for people with limited time, kids running around, etc, something like FaithLife is going to be a very good solution. It obviously still have some challenges just like Proclaim.
But combine that with Proclaim (namely the guy/gal with expertise that can help Faithlife users) and maybe the pastor with Logos4. The concept just needs 'filling out'.
Plus we struggle a LOT with our youth; we're such a small church 'how?'. But there's bunches of evangelical churches in our valley that work together. Wow, what an opportunity. People say 'Facebook!'. But the key is the community notes that can stay within a pastoral world.
I agree on the $30. There's a mental pricepoint there that's considerably different from $19..95.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Here is my take. I got a note from somewhere that I could download a free resource. That sounded good, so I followed the directions and got the Faithlife Bible.
Thanks!
Played with it for a few minutes and that was it.
Then about a week ago I came to the forum and saw mention of the Faithlife community??????? Went to the site to find out what Faithlife was all about. However all I saw was a lot of dancing bear type hypes but almost no information. Looked around for a little while, got bored and left.
Today saw this thread and got interested again. Tried to find some real information on faithlife and what you all are talking about but I didn't find any "real" information.
I saw where to sign up but sign up for what? Absolutely no where that I could find was there any mention that I would be asked to pay anything one day.
I think I'm above average intelligence, fairly computer savvy, and possessing some grasp of the English language but I am left with an overwhelming feeling that I don't have the "rest of the story."
My opinion, you need to stop trying to be cleaver. Announce the product, be upfront and mention that one day there will be a charge and then detail what I can expect Faithlife will do for me and why I would want to pay for it.
And No! I will not pay $29 to read unknown people pontificating on Bible verses.
Right now I have spent probably 2 hours messing around and I still don't know exactly what Faithlife is or what it does.
And no, I will not be signing up until I fully understand what it is I'm signing up for, what I can expect it to do for me and/or my church and whether or not there will be charges now or in the future.
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I agree with what some of Ed says. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what it is and how it works and how I am supposed to use it. Someone needs to put something together about how the entire things works together with some details.
I personally think it is cool and would love to utilize it. The problem that I see, however, is that I am fairly tech savy and I really can't imagine getting even 20% of my friends to set this up and actually use it. It's just easier to sit down with them for 5 minutes in front of a Bible or post something on facebook (even though this is different and works better). I hope i am wrong. I could see it take off if my pastor used it and a portion of the population of our church wanted to see his notes or wanted to study the sermon at a deeper level, but I see that as a supplement for those who want to dive deeper, not something we could use as a church body. I don't think I could solely use this with my community group or a bible study. I just can't imagine them all getting on the same page. It's hard enough getting them to respond to email, much less interact with this tool. If one person doesn't set it up or can't access or doesn't have a tablet or laptop, then you can't use it.
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Jason rust said:
Someone needs to put something together about how the entire things works together with some details.
That, my Friends, would be very helpful to me! *smile* Peace to all! ... and ..... Always Joy in the Lord!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Am I the only one who has imagined this:
Coming to your Church!
Camp Faithlife Bible!
Only $295.00 per person, includes a one year subscription!"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Agree with comments on subscription model. The impression I get is that Logos users are supposed to recommend this to people as Logos Lite, but after a few years this is not cheap, and therefore I could not recommend it.
The android app gave me the ESV initially because I have the ESV on Logos, and then decided that I did not have a license (presumably because I would have to license the ESV separately for Faithlife, and therefore would not show it. That seems odd.
Not sure if the model is still out there, but I preferred the buy a ESV study bible and get Logos software free. I think the model of buying the book, and then getting the online app either free or as paid for software is a better model for starting people onto Logos.
For tablets I can see that the apps work, but for the phone I still struggle with the screen size.
An hour later I still have not received FaithLife in Logos, even with forcing it to update.
I'm not sure who this is for? People who like renting stuff...
More interested in a better way of getting Logos on my kindle....
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Wow I just began using it today in my BS. I love it. It meets a need that was missing for assisted BS. Runge's note on Roman's 6 is awesome. Thanks so much for helping me once again to learn God's word that I might apply it.
A short video showing how it works and how it can help BS would have gotten me into it sooner. I kind of didn't get it til I started using it myself today-tho I saw the blog post on it.
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I'm really appreciating the feedback -- thanks!
It's clear we need to do a better job of explaining the Faithlife brand. We'll keep working on this.
Quick points:
Faithlife.com is the online community tools. It's free, and we have no intention of charging for it ever. And it uses your existing Logos.com account.
The Faithlife Study Bible is a collection of books, including the Faithlife Study Bible Notes. This collection is free to use through March 2014 with a coupon code. (We may even extend it beyond that -- we just don't know yet.) The only reason we might charge for it in the future is that we plan to keep adding new content, new videos, new photos, extended notes, more dictionary articles, and more infographics well into the future -- as well as supporting new platforms. We may need some revenue to support that, unless enough people upgrade to our bigger base packages -- Logos Bible Software -- to subsidize it.
The Faithlife Study Bible integrates with your Faithlife.com communities, and lets you share notes with them. But you aren't paying for those community features, and it's optional. You aren't paying to read "unknown people pontificating on Bible verses" or anything like that.
We do have many overview videos, with more planned. You can learn how to use the community features here:
There are several videos about the study Bible features at http://faithlifebible.com/features -- just click on the different features in the green area, and you'll find many have a video overview on their sub-page.
Some people we talk to are interested in only the study Bible, and others in only the online community. We are still learning how to best describe what is really a brand with multiple components that work together. We originally were going to call the study Bible the "Lexham Study Bible" (using our brand name for biblical language reference works) but thought it would be better to emphasize the Faithlife integration -- and use a new, less scholarly and more accessible brand.
But that's creating some confusion, too, which we'll continue to try and clear up. Thanks for your patience!
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Bob> I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts, as well as feedback on the FSB itself.
Dan> I was told the Faithstudy was free with a promotion, but when I accessed it the first thing it wanted was $30.
Since spending 700 on the Language package and the Ugarit library, I'm very disappointed in the Logos software. I was promised searchable cuneiform fonts, but they do not seem to exist. Instead there are a few cuneiform pictures with links attached.
The searches all seem extremely limited, websites like the Unbound Bible at Biola University yield more meaningful results.
The support tools for Logos are difficult to use and disorganized. Then when I do find something on the Faithstudy Bible, its just self promotional material looking for positive responses, nothing to do with problem solving.
I will continue using the software as it cost a fortune, and I will continue to post in blogs and forums.
Shalom,
Dan Reed
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Welcome to the Forums Daniel. It is best to start a new thread, or look through some old ones for help using Logos Bible Software. Have you tried to wiki http://wiki.logos.com/ or the support videos? http://www.logos.com/support/videos If there is something specific that you are trying to find help with go ahead and ask, and someone will do their best to assist you.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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The searchable Cuneiform fonts that were promised with the Ugarit Library is a great place to start.
I've tried searching 'cuneiform fonts' and going through the help links. I can't spend hours watching the online videos trying to find help info. The Ugarit library promises searchable cuneiform fonts. It should be an easy task to find information on the searchable cuneiform fonts.
I have other issues too (not in the Levitical sense).
Like the so-called Free Faithstudy Bible that requires a credit card.
The Hebrew Bible searches seem to turn up designed results, and disregard other correlations.
$700 is a lot of money for a software tool. It should function as advertized.
shalom,
Dan Reed
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Daniel if it was asking you for a Credit Card for the Faithlife Study Bible had you entered the coupon code. That could be why. The code is : FREE (that's it).
As long as the code is entered before check out there should be no charge.
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Daniel,
Welcome to Logos and the Logos Forums!
I am sorry you are experiencing problems. I suggest would also create a new thread about the Ugaritic text and fonts. One in the software version you are using (Mac or PC) and also in the general forums. If you can be as specific as possible someone might be able to help. This is a rather specialized area, most users are familiar with Hebrew and Greek. If someone is not able to help you can also call Logos tech support on Monday.
By posting in the forums seperatly you will have a better chance that someone can see who might be able to help. The same would also be helpful in regards to your issue with Hebrew searching. Post what you are trying to search (include the edition of the Hebrew Bible you are using). What search you are trying to preform including the type. Let us know what you feel is being excluded. Someone might then be able to be more helpful.
If you can include screenshots of what you are trying to do this will allow for better help.
Logos really is a great piece of software (I have been using it for 9 years) and the forums are one place I have found to be very helpful.
Blessings,
Philana
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Daniel - Welcome to the forums! [:)]
I agree with Philana - it would be best to start a new thread about the Ugarit Library. I don't know anything about that resource, but I wonder if it needs something in L3 that hasn't been moved over to L4? In any case, the link to the cuneiform typeface is a broken link.
Daniel Reed said:I have other issues too (not in the Levitical sense).
Like the so-called Free Faithstudy Bible that requires a credit card.
It is very common for companies to require credit cards for "free" purchases. This is even true with Free Amazon Kindle books, for example. If you have a moral conviction about the issue, you might be able to get a "burner" pre-paid card from Wal-Mart. I think you can get one for about $5. It would allow you to use that card for any "free" purchases. As long as you only use it for "free" purchases, it should work indefinitely.
NOTE: You also need a credit card for the free VYRSO books. If you plan on purchasing community pricing books, you will need a real credit card to process those orders. FWIW - I have a credit card on file and have never been charged by Logos for a "free" resource, which I get at least once a week.
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Hi Bob,
I have actually been very pleased with both the Faithlife Study Bible app and the Faithlife community website. Using it has been a great blessing, not just the notes (I don’t agree with everything, but then that would not happen with any study Bible I would use) but the app itself is very well designed. I love the photos, infographics and videos. With links to my Logos library in the third layer of notes I use it as a jumping off point for when I study on the go. I really appreciate the very lengthy free period.
I am very excited about the potential of both the app and website for personal and community study. While I understand that it its primary intended use is for a physical small group it can also be used for long distance and online group study. One example I can see is a group of friends from college or seminary could have a study group for the Bible and other book discussions. This could allow for long distance spiritual growth and mentorship.
I understand why some users might not want a subscription plan. I personally don’t have a problem with a subscription model because the Faithlife Study Bible is very different from something like the ESV Study Bible. The ESV Study Bible is completed and will not have any new content ever. It makes sense that you would pay once for a traditional study Bible. Since the Faithlife Study Bible, along with the Lexham Bible Dictionary, will be continually updated, I understand the need for funding the new content we would be getting. Of course if the free period was extended it would be appreciated as well.
Rather than take up a lot of room on this thread this is a shared note from Evernote with some ideas/input regarding Faithlife and it’s use.
I really appreciate all of the hard work that has gone into to the Faithlife Study Bible and Faithlife.com, and I look forward to what comes next. Many Bible study apps are geared for personal Bible study, which is great, but I like that Faithlife provides a platform for both personal and community study. But it also facilitates a way to keep both separate. So thanks!
In Christ,
Philana
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Hi alabama24,
alabama24 > It is very common for companies to require credit cards for "free" purchases.
Daniel> What is a 'free' purchase other than an oxymoron? Your excuse is that other sites collect people's personal information for so-called free purchases, so it's OK for you to do it too. Other people do a lot of things that honest folks choose not to do. It's why the real estate market crashed remember?
You really miss the point. It's not about the Credit Card. I can afford an extra $30 per month. After all I already put $700 on a credit card to Logos for the initial package. It's all about the business practice. Why do I need to enter a credit Card after I log on to my Logos account if the produce is free? The Faithlife Study Bible is not free BTW, it's the Faithlife Study Bible app. that's free.
Again, please do not miss the point here. You're all wonderful people, I'm only pointing out that you advertize products in a deceptive way. It's not a Free Faithlife Study Bible, it's only a free app.
Philana > If someone is not able to help you can also call Logos tech support on Monday.
Daniel > It's not about how to use the searchable cuneiform fonts, they do not exist. It's a question of why you advertize searchable cuneiform fonts when all that exist are some individual images with links. That's not a 'font' by definition.
It's not your software that's a problem, it's your deceptive advertizing. The Logos marketing team is of little faith when it comes to marketing your products. Why trick folks? Honest Christianity will sell itself.
Just be real.
shalom (as always),
Daniel0 -
Daniel Reed said:
You really miss the point. It's not about the Credit Card. I can afford an extra $30 per month. After all I already put $700 on a credit card to Logos for the initial package. It's all about the business practice. Why do I need to enter a credit Card after I log on to my Logos account if the produce is free? The Faithlife Study Bible is not free BTW, it's the Faithlife Study Bible app. that's free.
My apologies, but I think you are not understanding correctly. The Faithlife Study Bible subscription IS COMPLETELY FREE for more than a year. You do not need to pay a single cent. If you have paid for it, please contact Logos for a refund. Bob has given a code (I think it may change every month) that you need to use when you check out. FWIW - I did not have to enter my credit card since it was already on file. If you had to do so, something went wrong.
As you say, the app is free as well.
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Well I've been down this road. It only lets me download the app when I click the 'get it free' button. It's not just this one promotion, this is just where I finally realized it wasn't an error but a business practice.
Christians should lead by example. Is it OK to use deceptive advertizing if others are doing the same? Doesn't James say that we shouldn't identify Christians by the fact that they wear a cross around their neck, but we identify Christians by their actions? How does the Logos Marketing Team demonstrate Christianity? What have they learned from their own products?
James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 5:12
But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
Honesty (even in advertizing) is the best policy.
shalom,
Daniel Reed
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Daniel Reed said:
Christians should lead by example. Is it OK to use deceptive advertizing if others are doing the same? Doesn't James say that we shouldn't identify Christians by the fact that they wear a cross around their neck, but we identify Christians by their actions? How does the Logos Marketing Team demonstrate Christianity? What have they learned from their own products?
Daniel - With all due respect, you can keep griping in ignorance or you can contact Logos directly. I am sorry that you have had a bad experience. There has obviously been some error for you during this process. Once again, however, I assure you that this resource is absolutely FREE. Here is what Bob (the owner of the company) wrote (first post on this page):Bob Pritchett said:The Faithlife Study Bible is a collection of books, including the Faithlife Study Bible Notes. This collection is free to use through March 2014 with a coupon code. (We may even extend it beyond that -- we just don't know yet.)
I do know of a couple other users who had difficulties that you are describing (most have not) and they were able to get them taken care of. Please call Logos during business hours (west coast time).
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Bob Pritchett said:
I'm really appreciating the feedback -- thanks!
It's clear we need to do a better job of explaining the Faithlife brand. We'll keep working on this.
Quick points:
Faithlife.com is the online community tools. It's free, and we have no intention of charging for it ever. And it uses your existing Logos.com account.
The Faithlife Study Bible is a collection of books, including the Faithlife Study Bible Notes. This collection is free to use through March 2014 with a coupon code. (We may even extend it beyond that -- we just don't know yet.) The only reason we might charge for it in the future is that we plan to keep adding new content, new videos, new photos, extended notes, more dictionary articles, and more infographics well into the future -- as well as supporting new platforms. We may need some revenue to support that, unless enough people upgrade to our bigger base packages -- Logos Bible Software -- to subsidize it.
The Faithlife Study Bible integrates with your Faithlife.com communities, and lets you share notes with them. But you aren't paying for those community features, and it's optional. You aren't paying to read "unknown people pontificating on Bible verses" or anything like that.
We do have many overview videos, with more planned. You can learn how to use the community features here:
There are several videos about the study Bible features at http://faithlifebible.com/features -- just click on the different features in the green area, and you'll find many have a video overview on their sub-page.
Some people we talk to are interested in only the study Bible, and others in only the online community. We are still learning how to best describe what is really a brand with multiple components that work together. We originally were going to call the study Bible the "Lexham Study Bible" (using our brand name for biblical language reference works) but thought it would be better to emphasize the Faithlife integration -- and use a new, less scholarly and more accessible brand.
But that's creating some confusion, too, which we'll continue to try and clear up. Thanks for your patience!
Bob with all due respect take this simple test. Empty your mind of all you know about Faithlife then to go to https://faithlife.com/help or http://faithlifebible.com/features click on every link presented you. Then come back here and tell us what Faithlife is, what it does, what resources are required to make it do those things, what the expected benefits are, and how those benefits will be realized using Faithlife.
I say it can't be done. I have tried repeatedly to do just that. I see lots of promise, lots of hype, lots of smiling people, many unreadable screenshots but I don't see answers to these questions.
Believe me I'm on your side, that is why I'm asking to you reexamine how Logos pitches new products to the public.
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While I have "purchased" the free trial, I have not yet shown it off to others, including those who have been impressed with what all I have at my fingers with Logos at Bible studies...
1) I do not personally have a smart phone to see it native. I recognize that this is a significant market, but I am not in that market yet.
2) When this originally leaked to the forum users, you said it wasn't quite ready for the prime time. Most of my investigating of the "documentation"/"marketing" you had on the web was then, when it really wasn't ready yet.
3) While Faithlife Study Bible is not "Faithlife", the name suggests that it may require use of yet another social network site. I suspect from the social features I now see in Logos 4 that this would not be the case, but haven't really bothered to find out.
4) Subscription model. I know it costs money to do things, but somehow people show great reluctance to subscribe to content providers, other than in academia and the porn industry.
That all said, when I have investigated the materials from within Logos 4, I have seen that they are pretty good. The infographics are particularly well done. The links in the 3rd level notes are to top quality resources in my library, and I can see the usefulness for low computer-horsepower environments like the smart phones. In addition, "suggestive selling" these materials like this is good - both for your bottom line as well as for the education of the community. Theologically it is not the same as me, but it doesn't seem to be objectionable.
SDG
Ken McGuire
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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I have to say, I agree with Daniel on this:
Daniel Reed said:Well I've been down this road. It only lets me download the app when I click the 'get it free' button. It's not just this one promotion, this is just where I finally realized it wasn't an error but a business practice.
I had the android app for weeks before any coupon code showed up, and during all that time they were selling it for $30/year, and they still are. Coupon codes are one of those practices that companies use when they want to tier their prices, we're all used to it, but saying it's "Free with a coupon code" isn't quite the same as free, even if you put a big banner on there telling us that there is a coupon code if we do a little searching.
That's something I've never understood, frankly: why would anyone (as a company) want to make your customer balk at the last minute and go to Google in search of coupons? Why not just make it actually, completely free? I know you know how, because I get emails for free books every month ...
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alabama24 > Please call Logos during business hours (west coast time).
Just to let you know. Yesterday I was requesting help with the Cuneiform fonts so I didn't follow up in this forum. I was told to go through the forums and all the video's to find help, by Kathy Richardson of Logos. It seems like she just wanted to push me away.
Has anyone ever tried to access specific help information from the forums? How about the video's? For example; What video or forum do I use to find out about the cuneiform fonts?
This is on topic in this forum as it's about Logos support in general, not the specific cuneiform font issue which I am addressing in another place.
And about that other place. . . . I contacted Morris Proctor (whom Kathy also recommended) and sent a detailed description of my problem more than 24 hours ago. So far..... no response.I may be wrong, but so far Logos support is a black hole.
shalom,
Daniel Reed0 -
Daniel - Sorry you have had troubles. I will try to get someones attention for you from Logos.
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In the mobile app I would like to see the ability to turn off personal notes in the Bible and leave them on in the study Bible. That way all the notes are located in the study Bible section and the Bible is less cluttered for reading. I haven't read through this thread to see if this was already mentioned, but I believe it would be an improvement. Thanks for a great app and for considering our ideas.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Joel ... Logos was letting you PAY for the FaithLife subscription???
If so, then I'd agree with Daniel (and you).
This general issue has come up before where a resource was $0 but still required a CC (they didn't want to re-program for the $0). But this is a bit different, if the system actually lets you pay without warning you.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Daniel Reed said:
I was promised searchable cuneiform fonts, but they do not seem to exist.
I'm sorry you're unhappy with this. As you can imagine, expertise in cuneiform is not common, nor is the market large -- so our customer service team doesn't get special training in it. We have only a handful of users with interest in Ugaritic, and most of them work with tranliteration.
I'm asking the person here who does have specialist knowledge to look into this and get back to you.
With my limited knowledge:
I'm not sure we promised "searchable cuneiform fonts" -- most of the stuff we have that was originally in cuneiform was published in transcription. The transcribed text is searchable in our system. (Where did you see this promise -- on our web site?) I believe we have a small amount of text in an actual cuneiform font, and that text should be searchable, but we don't support auto-transliterating / un-transliterating from cuneiform script.
When we publish a book that contains graphics of cuneiform writing we do not ourselves "type in" the cuneiform -- we don't have the expertise in house, and often the drawings reflect special things (long tails, etc.) that the fonts may not adequately represent. The limited text we would have in actual cuneiform would be academic material provided to us in Unicode format.
If you can provide more specifics about what you were expecting, what was promised, and which books we're discussing, I can provide more detail.
-- Bob
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Ed Blough said:
Bob with all due respect take this simple test. Empty your mind of all you know about Faithlife
This is a good suggestion, and we're taking it to heart. We're also working to improve the messaging for both products. (Part of the problem is that they are at different levels of completion... Faithlife.com has lots of stuff that's still coming in order to deliver its full promise. We also built the web sites and marketing while both products were still in development.)
Is the primary confusion that we're using the same brand name on both the Study Bible and the online community? If you "emptied your mind" and visited only http://faithlifebible.com/features would it at least make sense as a single product -- a Study Bible -- or is even that confusing?
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