Logos & Zondervan

(Based on the content of the linked article, I wasn't sure whether this should go under the Vyrso forum or not...)

http://www.logos.com/press/releases/partnership

Note that it's dated tomorrow, but it came across the Logos Twitter feed.

This might be a bit of sour grapes, but my main comment is that if the ebooks Zondervan provides Logos don't include page numbers, Logos should push back very forcefully to get them included (or figure out how to add them themselves). As has been pointed out in the Vyrso forum, most of the Vyrso books are lacking page numbers.

IMO, ***it's not a book if it doesn't have page numbers!!!*** Several Vyrso books I've gotten could be used as reference material in research papers, and any of them could be the subject of an assigned book review (which is the case next semester).

Logos has been doing this ebook thing a lot longer than most of these publishers, and they need to educate them in this regard.

My $.02 ...

Donnie

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Comments

Jacob Hantla

You are still able to reference digital books without book numbers. All citation systems include guidelines on how to do this.

I agree that it is nice to have page numbers especially when I read a book digitally that a friend is simultaneously reading in print but I do not think that it is necessary.

JT (alabama24)

IMO, ***it's not a book if it doesn't have page numbers!!!***

Most eBooks don't have page numbers. I understand your desire to have them (I would rather have them than not to have them), but they are a depreciated tool.

Ward Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383847#Comment_383847

I value page numbers--or at least the relative reference system that other eReaders have.

Not having a granular reference mechanism is a BIG turn-off for me.

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383847#Comment_383847

IMO, ***it's not a book if it doesn't have page numbers!!!***

Most eBooks don't have page numbers. I understand your desire to have them (I would rather have them than not to have them), but they are a depreciated tool.

I assume you mean deprecated, i.e. obsoleted? If so, it's a shame and quite illogical that Logos tied their Read Aloud capability to a deprecated tool.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383947#Comment_383947

I assume you mean deprecated, i.e. obsoleted?

Maybe this will clarify: [:)]

When this subject comes up, sometimes others think I am bashing page numbers… I am not. Page numbers, however, don't make much sense in an eBook. I don't mean to imply that there are not benefits to having them, but rather that their benefit relates to things outside of the eBook itself. Consider this example: What if you had an eBook which was NEVER printed. What would a "page number" mean? Should the page be the average number of words which fit on a Paperback? Hardback? Magazine? In this example, wouldn't another system which provided MORE accuracy be better? What about a system which would take you to the very sentence you reference. Wouldn't that be better?

it's a shame and quite illogical that Logos tied their Read Aloud capability to a deprecated tool.

I don't know anything about how the read aloud feature works. By "depreciated tool," I am not thinking of a Logos specific tool, but rather page numbers in eBooks as a whole. At some point, hopefully sooner than later, another system will come along and become a standard for citations.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383960#Comment_383960

Page numbers, however, don't make much sense in an eBook.

What I want to know, in an ebook, is the page number from the print book on which the ebook is based. Page numbers relative to the ebook itself don't make sense since the reader's physical size and the current display size and orientation will change that. If the print version doesn't have page numbers or if there was never a print version, then page numbers as I'd like to see them don't make sense.

Donnie

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383985#Comment_383985

What I want to know, in an ebook, is the page number from the print book on which the ebook is based.

As I said, there is nothing intrinsic within the eBook itself. Your desire is based upon a particular print version. By the way, do you want the page numbers from the hardback or paperback version. [:P]

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383960#Comment_383960

I don't know anything about how the read aloud feature works. By "depreciated tool," I am not thinking of a Logos specific tool, but rather page numbers in eBooks as a whole. At some point, hopefully sooner than later, another system will come along and become a standard for citations.

What I was referring to is this - if an eBook has no page numbers, you cannot use Read Aloud using that eBook from within Logos. So it can be a big deal to some if there are no page numbers.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384000#Comment_384000

if an eBook has no page numbers, you cannot use Read Aloud using that eBook from within Logos.

I didn't know that. I knew that the read aloud would restart at each page, but I didn't know that the lack of page numbers prevented the feature from working.

Pastor Dave Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383842#Comment_383842

I agree that it is nice to have page numbers especially when I read a book digitally that a friend is simultaneously reading in print

This summer I have been leading a discussion group at our church through some resources. It has been a challenge when 1/2 the class has dead-tree copies and half the class has e-versions published by a large internet company ("that is trying to start small fires" [:D]). So that the rest of the class could refer to a quote within the original context, a participant would say "2/3 of the way through chapter 8 the author writes....then somebody would find it in dead tree and call out a page number and somebody would find the K***le location and call it out so that the whole group could interact with the quote. There has to be a better system!!

I realize citation is a bigger problem as evidenced that chapter and verse in Hebrew Bibles do not always match English Bibles.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383991#Comment_383991

do you want the page numbers from the hardback or paperback version.

The quote you provided from me answers that question. If the ebook was based on the hardback, then it would be the hardback's page numbers. If from the paperback, then the paperback's page numbers.

Donnie

Sogol

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384133#Comment_384133

Yeah, I'm with you in that I'm not interested in buying eBooks at this point that lack page numbers.

I think Amazon was smart and started allowing for page numbers to be available in many Kindle books. They simply give you the ISBN of the printed book upon which the page numbers are based.

We may one day live in a world without page numbers, but I think there's just too many inconveniences for me at this point to (most of which have already been cited) to make it worthwhile for me to go without them.

Would it really be that difficult to start adding page numbers to Vryso books? Amazon seemed to have added them pretty easily.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384183#Comment_384183

Would it really be that difficult to start adding page numbers to Vryso books? Amazon seemed to have added them pretty easily.

Unfortunately, yes. The process is automated. It is my understanding that page numbers only come if the publisher includes them.

fgh

Logos should push back very forcefully to get them included

[Y][Y][Y][Y][Y]

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384133#Comment_384133

Donnie Hale Replied: Today 5:52 AM

alabama24:
do you want the page numbers from the hardback or paperback version.

The quote you provided from me answers that question. If the ebook was based on the hardback, then it would be the hardback's page numbers. If from the paperback, then the paperback's page numbers.
Donnie

Please re read alabama24’s prior post: Where it was said:

“”Consider this example: What if you had an eBook which was NEVER printed. What would a "page number" mean? Should the page be the average number of words which fit on a Paperback? Hardback? Magazine? “”

Then the ANSWER!:
“In this example, wouldn't another system which provided MORE accuracy be better? What about a system which would take you to the very sentence you reference. Wouldn't that be better?””

[[Sounds like a system based on word count]]
[[Also read aloud MUST be fixed]]

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384285#Comment_384285

If a page number isn't available would a search work? With the FSB app you can search for a phrase enclosed in quotes.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384297#Comment_384297

If a page number isn't available would a search work? With the FSB app you can search for a phrase enclosed in quotes.

Most people who look up references do not want to do a search of the source that the author used; they want to go straight to the location of the source.

The number of people who use electronic resources is still very very very small.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384285#Comment_384285

“”Consider this example: What if you had an eBook which was NEVER printed. What would a "page number" mean? Should the page be the average number of words which fit on a Paperback? Hardback? Magazine? “”

My earlier post had already addressed alabama24's comment about ebooks which were not based on print versions.

Donnie