Matthew 18:21 Question

I was reading passages on forgiveness this morning and Matthew 18:21 from the NRSV reads:

"Then Peter came and said to him, "Lord, if another member of the church sins against me, how often should I forgive?"

I usually like the NRSV, but I was surprised to find the words "member of the church" instead of "brother" or "someone". No other version I have in Logos does this. Any ideas on why the translators of the NRSV made this decision?

Thanks

Ron

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Milford Charles Murray

Thanks, Ron! Good catch! I've never noticed this before! *smile* Peace to you!

Related to your observation, I would think, is the fact that <Lemma = lbs/el/ἐκκλησία> is only used three times in Matthew.

NetworkGeek

Here is a more linguistic answer:

The NRSV has used various means of incorporating inclusivist language. A few examples illustrate these. "I will make you fishers of men" (Matt 4:19, RSV) is now "I will make you fish for people" (NRSV). Often "brother(s)" (RSV) has become "brother(s) and/or sister(s)" (NRSV) (e.g. Matt 5:22–24, 47; 18:35) and in one instance, "members of my family" (Matt 25:40, NRSV). In at least one section "brother" (RSV) is rendered "another member of the church" (NRSV) (Matt 18:15, 21), and an inclusive linguistic standard is maintained by repetition of "member" (Matt 18:17) and by an awkward passive, "if you are not listened to" (Matt 18:16). "Awkwardness" is also the word for the Son of Man being betrayed "into human hands" (Matt 17:22, NRSV). It is unnatural English compared with his betrayal "into the hands of men" (RSV).

---Master’s Seminary Journal Volume 2. Sun Valley, CA: Master’s Seminary, 1991.

Mike Childs

I usually like the NRSV, but I was surprised to find the words "member of the church" instead of "brother" or "someone". No other version I have in Logos does this. Any ideas on why the translators of the NRSV made this decision?

That is just a blatant example of proper translation bowing before the altar of political correctness. That is something the NRSV tends to do. The Greek is clearly "my brother" (ἀδελφός)

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/388251#Comment_388251

Although I don't always agree with the translators' choice for inclusiveness, I understand why they will sometimes use "brothers and sisters". But to me "member of the church" seems to be too much of a stretch.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/388251#Comment_388251

I usually like the NRSV, but I was surprised to find the words "member of the church" instead of "brother" or "someone". No other version I have in Logos does this. Any ideas on why the translators of the NRSV made this decision?

That is just a blatant example of proper translation bowing before the altar of political correctness. That is something the NRSV tends to do. The Greek is clearly "my brother" (ἀδελφός)

There are occasions when "brother" includes "sisters" as well, but the decision needs to be made on a case by case basis. This is one of the points where I disagree with the NRSV although it is generally a very good translation. Perhaps we need to remove the 2x4 from our own eyes before criticising someone else.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/388260#Comment_388260

One of the reasons I really like the NRSV is for their incorporation of some of the Dead Sea Scroll readings.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/388260#Comment_388260

Well, you'd have to show me how any women were involved in Jesus' betrayal. Looks like some guys are trying 'spread the blame'. Smart ladies knew better. It's not by accident most pastors have trouble finding a 'bad lady' to hang their sermon on. One hand and maybe some fingers are all they've got to work with.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/388275#Comment_388275

One hand and maybe some fingers are all they've got to work with.

But with that they can "reach out and touch someone." [;)] [:D]

Scott E. Mahle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/388251#Comment_388251

That is just a blatant example of proper translation bowing before the altar of political correctness. That is something the NRSV tends to do. The Greek is clearly "my brother" (ἀδελφός)

LOL! [Y]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/388275#Comment_388275

It's not by accident most pastors have trouble finding a 'bad lady' to hang their sermon on.

Seems there was a woman somewhere in Kings who could serve for a few sermons. Let's see, who was that—Ahab's wife, I believe [:D]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/388294#Comment_388294

Yep. Old 'Jez' has had to carry the water for many a sermon over several thousand years, she's got so little company.