Logos Please, on New Interpreter's Bible
I was advised it is better to start a new topic and ask the question than hoping you would respond to the question in the larger thread. I know it still have not got to publication levels but many of us are very curious when it is expected to get into contract levels. Is it hundreds more, a few dozen, three? Is there anyway we can help things along?
-dan
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[Y]
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I also would be very interested in a report on the status of this. [Y]
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
[Y]
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Michael Childs said:
I also would be very interested in a report on the status of this.
And so would I [Y]
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And so would I!
Logos is bringing out a large number of important resources for audiences that have heretofore been reluctant to embrace Logos, e.g. Brueggemann and Hauwerwas. New Interpreters Bible (and Dictionary) is critical to this audience. Moving it out of an interminable "gathering interest" would be an important signal to this community. I realize Abingdon is not Augsberg Fortress, but they'll stand stronger and more attractive together than if one holds back.
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Very good points Rebecca, since we haven't had a response from Logos, I would suggest everyone interested might try emailing ( Bob Pritchett bob@logos.com ) and inquiring about it in the past I haven't gotten a response from such emails but if he gets a couple dozen emails he may well consider looking into it and giving us an answer. I ask you to be polite but may also include the reason you want the NIB and consider it important.
-Dan
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So much for the grand advice saying if we started a new thread clearly asking we would get a response. It would be one thing to say something like, "We are not going to be deviating from our standard prepub system, we will be placing it under contract when 94 more orders are placed." But we have got nothing. These are the things that frustrate us. YES MANY OF US WANT THE NIB NOW, but we understand there is a process, we just want to hear from Logos about the details. How close are we really. Is there anything practically we can do to help.
-Dan
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Dan ... I guess I saw the Bob message where he got up from his desk, went down to the 'books' area and checked on the Dead Sea Scrolls group (pointedly hinting this would be the exception, given so many resources in some state of contract or development.)
But these volumes DO merit publishing if only because they're basic to any good re-seller's offering (eg ChristianBook etc).
I wonder if AYB or Hermeneia had to jump thru so many hoops (probably did?). Hard to imagine a boat-load of AYB enthusiasts.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Dan Francis said:
So much for the grand advice saying if we started a new thread clearly asking we would get a response.
That it not what I said. Essentially I said that you had no hope of getting an answer if Logos didn't see the question. I didn't say that you would get an answer if they did see it. Sometimes they answer, sometimes they don't, but now, presumably, it's a deliberate choice not to answer, not just the consequence of not having seen the question. Or it could be that the right person is still on vacation.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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On the positive side, the Logos site does say that that the NIB is "almost there". There may just be no more to say than that. Book selling, including electronic Christian book selling, is a profit making concern. They know how many orders that it takes to make it a profitable venture. They know orders are close to that, but not there yet. For various reasons, it may not be wise to say exactly how far this resource has to go.
Patience is just a bummer!
I would really like to see the NIB in Logos format do well because I want Abingdon to release the Bicentennial Wesley's Works in Logos format. Of course, the NIB would be very nice too.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
I've looked into this and found that New Interpreter's is an unusual case. We
put it up without having final source materials to estimate from, so we
aren't as far on pre-pub as we thought. We're also having some contract issues
with the publisher, who wants different terms than we normally work on. We're
working through this, but I can't say exactly when it will be available.We'll be revising the pre-pub sliders with new numbers soon; I can tell you we're actually closer to half-way, not all the way, on both NIB and NIDB, and even then there are some outstanding contract issues that I can't predict the resolution of.
I'm sorry for the delay, and the confusion. Generally we try to never put something up without having these things resolved in advance, but somehow these projects got posted in advance of that, or based on incorrect information.
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Dan
Hasn't there already been a price correction on NIB and NIDB? I thought that, some time ago, both had a price change and took a drop in progress as a result, since more pre-orders were needed to move them into production. I was pleased they wouldn't cost so much at the time, but they are now taking quite some time to get into production.
Can you remember the details of the price correction?
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Bob Pritchett said:
We'll be revising the pre-pub sliders with new numbers soon; I can tell you we're actually closer to half-way, not all the way, on both NIB and NIDB, and even then there are some outstanding contract issues that I can't predict the resolution of.
Sounds like we'll be seeing Logos 6 before we see the NIB then [:(]
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Thanks Bob, it's not great news but at least we know what is what now…and to all those tired of seeing the posts knowing we are not even have way there I will cease my promotion of this resource, because i feel it is very valuable, but one must assume most people have seen it now, i may put a brand new link up once a month, asking people to look at it and pointing a link to the samples i have up on the Evernote site.
-Dan
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The price correction I was referring to is described at:
It was about 8 months ago. If I rightly remember, NIB was 'Under Development' and NIBD was getting fairly close. I think they'd been on pre-pub for about 11 months at the time, judging by the date on feedburner (http://feeds2.feedburner.com/LogosPrepubs).
It's a shame if this is a new correction, putting production even further back. Judging by the amount of promotion Dan Francis has been giving this, it will take a lot of work to get the orders to move it into production. It looks like Logos has got this wrong at some point, so it would be good to hear them giving better news for this set soon. Otherwise, production could be a long way off.
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Thanks Bob.
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Andrew Baguley said:
It looks like Logos has got this wrong at some point, so it would be good to hear them giving better news for this set soon. Otherwise, production could be a long way off.
I don't think Logos is at fault here. From my converstation with people in decision making roles at Abingdon, they are NOT very interested in working with Logos. As Bob politely put it, there are publisher issues.
I did get an email from Abingdon with a survey last week, which I filled out and sent in. One of the questions was about Bible software that you used. And in the comments section I emphasized that "for over 15 years now I have bought almost all my commentaries and reference resources through Logos - thousands of dollars worth. I will continue to do so, and I would like for that to include Abingdon resources. But they must be in Logos format to interest me." From that survey I take it that Abingdon is considering what direction to go, largely because their own electronic format is not selling so well.
I would recommend spending at least as much energy working on the Abingdon side of this as is being spent on the Logos side. Otherwise, I don't think we are going to get very far.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
I'm periodically critical of Logos (frequently?) but just for the record here, the price change mentioned above was the SELL price. Unlike most pre-pubs, the two resources had been put on pre-pub originally at full sell ($400/800 if I remember right).
I only mention this, because Interpreters 'was' my favorite (well, ok, next to New Jeromes). But when they (Abingdon I assume) put it on at full sell, I moved on with Hermeneia/Continental and eventually AYB.
As noted in the blog mentioned above (price change), Abingdon apparently came to their senses but then all those big commentary sales had already slurped up customers who would also enjoy the Interpreter series. Competing products.
Of course we don't know if Abingdon is now on its financial knees, or not. Maybe demand is so good, discounting and multi-platform at Logos isn't that attractive.
I am glad Bob gave the status, though I kind of whinced due to Dan's efforts for so long. Dan did more for this than Abingdon and Logos combined.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Michael Childs said:Andrew Baguley said:
It looks like Logos has got this wrong at some point, so it would be good to hear them giving better news for this set soon. Otherwise, production could be a long way off.
I don't think Logos is at fault here...
That's an interesting take on Bob's post.
I wasn't suggesting that the fault lay entirely with Logos. We don't know what the contract issues with the publisher are. I took it that Logos got it wrong when they "put it up without having final source materials to estimate from", as Bob put it. I'm happy with the apology from Bob, and the reassurance that they "try to never put something up without having resolved these things in advance". However, it seems that Logos did get that wrong. I took Bob's post as a confession that they didn't stick to their normal good practice, an apology that they did so, an expression of regret that things aren't better than they are, reassurance that they're working on it and reassurance that they normally follow good practice, even if they haven't quite done that here. We all get things wrong. Apologising and trying to resolve the problems is a good way to handle it. [:)]
I wasn't sure how to read Bob's post in the light of the earlier blog post (http://blog.logos.com/2011/12/new-lower-prices-on-the-new-interpreters-bible-and-new-interpreters-dictionary/) and I feel for Dan who has been working hard to try to promote this resource and get it into production. [:(]
What I think would be good is if Logos can work to resolve the contract issues, let us know where we stand, and maybe try to sweeten the deal somehow for those of us who were willing to pay more and thought that production was close eight months ago. Telling us that we'll have to wait even longer a second time isn't great. I don't know whether Bob was aware of/remembered the earlier change when he posted here. The sweetener last time was that the price fell. I'm not sure that there has been a sweetener this time, so I'd like to suggest that Logos come up with something. They may be able to put it into production without covering all of the costs that they normally would. That's up to Logos to decide and, if they do so, I'd like to think that they would clearly communicate it so that there is no confusion and that the bad feeling from feeling messed around can be assuaged somewhat, even if they're not entirely responsible for the problem.
My feeling is that when Logos realise that there is a problem, they usually work hard to sort it out, though they sometimes take a prompt from users/customers to do so.
As you say, Michael, it may be that pressure applied to Abingdon is in order here. It's good that you've had a chance to respond to the email you received. Maybe a few of us should try contacting them directly to let them know how much we've been looking forward to getting NIB and NIBD in Logos and that we look forward to hearing an estimated production date soon.
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Michael Childs said:
I did get an email from Abingdon with a survey last week, which I filled out and sent in. One of the questions was about Bible software that you used. And in the comments section I emphasized that "for over 15 years now I have bought almost all my commentaries and reference resources through Logos - thousands of dollars worth. I will continue to do so, and I would like for that to include Abingdon resources. But they must be in Logos format to interest me." From that survey I take it that Abingdon is considering what direction to go, largely because their own electronic format is not selling so well.
I got the survey too, and made it clear that Logos was my preferred format for new commentaries. However, in hindsight I wish that survey would have come after reading Bob's post above - I would have used some stronger language had I known the holdup was with Abingdon.
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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Andrew Baguley said:
As you say, Michael, it may be
that pressure applied to Abingdon is in order here. It's good that
you've had a chance to respond to the email you received. Maybe a few
of us should try contacting them directly to let them know how much
we've been looking forward to getting NIB and NIBD in Logos and that we
look forward to hearing an estimated production date soon.Anyone have the email address for someone at Abingdon with enough authority to make a difference in this matter?
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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Rev Chris said:
I would have used some stronger language had I known the holdup was with Abingdon
It's unfortunate that some publishers are so resistant to electronic publication of their works. Given the number of academic resources in Logos and the nature of Logos customers this would be the ideal platform for works such at this and the NIBD. It looks as if neither of these will be available before I retire (if ever). Fortunately, our local city library has these in print. That's a sale lost for Abingdon. I wonder if these publishers realize how many people would buy their books in a usable electronic format but won't buy them in print.
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It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound but at the same point in time it;s not something shortly off either. I am not cancelling my Pre-Order but have been told as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
... as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.
It's good to hear that you have some kind of resolution here, Dan, with access to the online version, though I think most of us would agree that that's not as good as having it in Logos. [:)]
Dan Francis said:It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound ...
It would be good for Bob to communicate clearly regarding this. Abingdon's email sounds believable. I suspect that Logos may well have done this kind of thing in the past. Hopefully their business has moved on to the extent that they no longer feel the need to do this and they can find a better way of gauging interest, even if it means putting a resource on pre-pub, while clearly communicating that they are not promising the product, but using it as a means to gauge interest. The forums make clear that poor communication and misleading customers (deliberately or otherwise) are two of the great bug bears that people have with Logos. The product is good, and thankfully improving, but the bug bears persist, though perhaps these are lessening as they respond to their customers. Hopefully the contract negotiations can be brought to completion fairly quickly and then we can then have a clear communication from Logos letting us all know where we stand. If they were able to sweeten things for people, just as Abingdon have tried to do for Dan, then that would be admirable. If they were able to reassure us that the problems encountered here have arisen from issues that should no longer arise, then that would be even better.
It sounds like Abingdon are listening. Did anyone have that email address handy, or are things so advanced that this is no longer worthwhile?
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Stage One - the price has been updated and, yes, it looks like they're a long way off publication. NIB is no longer 'Almost There'... (http://www.logos.com/product/8803/new-interpreters-bible)
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I appreciate these recent posts. It has helped me to understand the Loooong time of waiting. Thanks folks for getting the updated info on this. I like the NIB and have Hard Copy & Ministry Matters but was hoping the "soon" release was coming my way ...anyway - Thanks!
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Dan Francis said:
It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound but at the same point in time it;s not something shortly off either. I am not cancelling my Pre-Order but have been told as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.
-Dan
I will say that both sides are telling the truth (as they see it).
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tom collinge said:
I will say that both sides are telling the truth (as they see it).
I never meant to imply Bob or Abingdon were lying, other than one seemed more hopeful than the others, and only means of deception i may have implied was in the offering, but at the same point in time maybe many of the pre pub items are offered always as a way to see if contracts should be sought.
-Dan
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I'm still really hoping for New Interpreters. Any chance we'll see it in 2013?
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Not likely. Abingdon seems to have enough problems on their hands, with the closing of all their retail stores and all...
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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Dan Francis said:
It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound but at the same point in time it;s not something shortly off either. I am not cancelling my Pre-Order but have been told as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.
-Dan
I have emailed and called various Abingdon editors / officials urging them to publish NIB, NID in Logos format numerous times, and the impression that I get is that they have little interest in marketing their product through Logos. The best I can get from them is a "thank you" for your interest. And a lukewarm, we will consider your request. They seem to prefer their own ebook format.
Since they are closing all their Cokesbury brick and mortar stores, and going to all mail order and online sales, perhaps they will reconsider. Their present strategy has not worked too well. As a UM pastor, my church does a good bit of business with Abingdon / Cokesbury.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Michael Childs said:
I have emailed and called various Abingdon editors / officials urging them to publish NIB, NID in Logos format numerous times, and the impression that I get is that they have little interest in marketing their product through Logos. The best I can get from them is a "thank you" for your interest. And a lukewarm, we will consider your request. They seem to prefer their own ebook format.
Since they are closing all their Cokesbury brick and mortar stores, and going to all mail order and online sales, perhaps they will reconsider. Their present strategy has not worked too well. As a UM pastor, my church does a good bit of business with Abingdon / Cokesbury.
Can I ask how you contacted Abingdon? I'm trying to figure out the best person to get in touch with. I don't know how much it will help, but it might be good if a lot of us continued to express to them how much we would love to see their resources in Logos.
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I'm estimating the current progress bar for The New Interpreter's Bible at just under 70% (based on a crude measurement of my screen).
If I recall correctly, that may represent a slight move upward.
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Sogol said:
Can I ask how you contacted Abingdon? I'm trying to figure out the best person to get in touch with. I don't know how much it will help, but it might be good if a lot of us continued to express to them how much we would love to see their resources in Logos.
Sorry, I just noticed your request. I apologize for the delay.
M. Kathryn Armistead is the "Lead Editor: Bible, Leadership, Theology" at Abingdon. The mailing address was at Abingdon Press, 201 Eighth Avenue South, P.O. Box 801, Nashville, TN 37202. I exchanged emails with her also, and she was always responsive and nice.
I will be glad to share with you the email address that I used. But it is probably a good idea not to post it on a forum. You can contact me at mikechilds54 at att.net and I will give you the email address, or you can probably find it with a google search or on the Abingdon web page.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
[quote] It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound but at the same point in time it;s not something shortly off either. I am not cancelling my Pre-Order but have been told as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.
-Dan
I also own the CDROM version. How does one access the online version for free?
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Michael Childs said:
Sorry, I just noticed your request. I apologize for the delay.
M. Kathryn Armistead is the "Lead Editor: Bible, Leadership, Theology" at Abingdon. The mailing address was at Abingdon Press, 201 Eighth Avenue South, P.O. Box 801, Nashville, TN 37202. I exchanged emails with her also, and she was always responsive and nice.
I will be glad to share with you the email address that I used. But it is probably a good idea not to post it on a forum. You can contact me at mikechilds54 at att.net and I will give you the email address, or you can probably find it with a google search or on the Abingdon web page.
This is great, Michael. I'll look it up and get in touch with her. I appreciate the info.
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Andrew Baguley said:
I feel for Dan who has been working hard to try to promote this resource and get it into production.
I greatly appreciate the tireless efforts of Dan to promote the publication of the New Interpreters' Bible in Logos! He has done a great job and persevered. I agree and support his cause. Thanks, Dan.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
I had to email them with proof of ownership (took a photo of my original disc)…. Michaele Lee was the person I dealt with...
-Dan
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Michael Childs said:
I greatly appreciate the tireless efforts of Dan to promote the publication of the New Interpreters' Bible in Logos! He has done a great job and persevered. I agree and support his cause. Thanks, Dan.
Thanks but i do feel it is a rather hopeless task, unless the influx of Catholic users generates more interest. Logos prepublication system offers a sound business model i am sure, but in this case it keeps them away from a resource that would bring in a different user. I am very happy that my favourite Bible software is working on the NIB now (I call it my favourite because it is very fast and very stable and I have used it for close to 20 years, windows users will get a chance to experience it very soon). It would have been nice to have the NIB integrated into Logos, but I will be very happy to have it in a good platform.
-Dan
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