Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012
Comments
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Eric Weiss said:
How are you able to use Windows 8? Is that a beta version?
Probably the public Release Preview but it could be the RTM (Final Release) as a 90-day evaluation version for developers.
Eric Weiss said:I guess this means I need to get a new PC; I'm still running XP on a many-years-old PC with 3GB RAM.
If you get a Win 7 machine now you should also be eligible to purchase Win 8 for a low upgrade cost (< $20) - just ask when buying. Also, Win 8 runs faster than Win 7 so you don't need the fastest machine!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Scott E. Mahle said:
My son just purchased a new laptop with Windows 7 Home and will be upgraded to Windows 8 Pro for $14.95 on October 26. The deals on the Windows 7 computers are pretty good right now if you look around. I’d go for the 7.
I'd agree. I got a similar upgrade from Windows XP to the new Vista (some time ago!) but I installed it clean, alongside XP. Needless to say, I didn't like Vista and the machine automatically booted into XP after a short while. You might have that option with W8 (or fully backup W7 before you install it) ...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Larry Good said:
The CPU limit that I notice is 4 Threads spread over 4 Cores. Each Core can dispatch 2 Threads on my machine so in reality it is only using 2 Cores equivalent. It is obvious it is CPU bottlenecked for instance in a re-index operation.
I take your point that more than 4 threads could be assigned by Logos. My laptop's i5 dual-core CPU is well utilised and full indexing used to take 2x - 2.5x longer than the i7 quad-core; both hyperthreaded. After replacing the HDD with an SSD the laptop is slightly faster than the i7 machine. Further, the SATA 3 SSD is not used optimally on the SATA 2 interface!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Paul Golder said:
I'm hesitant to go to Wiindows 8 since it seems to be more graphical. Can you still use the command interface. I really HATE graphical interfaces (I also hate those so-called international signs where you have to figure out what the picture is supposed to mean. Give me a word any day.
Edit: What was so bad about Vista? I never had problems with it.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
'm hesitant to go to Wiindows 8 since it seems to be more graphical. Can you still use the command interface. I really HATE graphical interfaces (I also hate those so-called international signs where you have to figure out what the picture is supposed to mean. Give me a word any day.
Windows 8 includes the new tiled interface (they call in Metro) but it includes a more familiar desktop as well. As far as I know, command line will work as it always has. The main reason they added the tiled interface option was to better support tablets.
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mitchellisdumb said:Michael Parry -Thomas said:
I've just run a Microsoft system report For upgrading from XP to Windows 7 It states a version of Windows 32-bit would be okay, but it also says it may run 64-bit how do I choose Between the two
Should I stick to a 32-bit as all my programs are running on Windows xp 32-bit, I will have two keep an eye out for a bargain on eBay, must be genuine version
Thanks for your information I didn't think my system would cope with Windows 7
You should get the 64 bit version if you have the choice. Any normal 32-bit program will run on a 64-bit OS, with the exception of certain drivers. So unless you're running some legacy or highly specialized hardware that doesn't have 64-bit drivers available, go for the 64-bit OS.
If plan to use more than 4 GB of RAM, then 64 bit Windows is prudent.
On 64 bit Windows, Microsoft recommends installing the 32 bit version of Office 2010 for compatibility with plug-ins.
Personally wonder if Logos plans to move to 64 bit application(s) on Mac and Windows ? If so, then 64 bit Windows will be needed to run 64 bit Logos.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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So will there still be a "last XP version" made available indefinitely in case of the need to reinstall L4 on an older XP machine?
And if so will it sync properly with the newest version of L4\5?
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:Dominick Sela said:
Will there be a safeguard in the new version that it will not corrupt existing Windows XP uses, will the beta channel be disabled for windows XP users?
It will not corrupt an existing installation on Windows XP.
Recent versions of Logos 4 include a check that prevents them from automatically downloading an update that is not supported by the current OS. (So if, hypothetically, Logos 4.7 is tagged as Vista-only, and you're running Logos 4.6 on Windows XP, running "update now" will display "No updates available".)
If you manually download the installer from the Internet and try to run it, it will check your OS and display an error message informing you that it's not supported.
This post answered all the questions I had. Wish you'd led with it...might have saved me an ulcer. I still run L4 on two of my three installations on an XP machine. It's too stable to gamble with Vista, and why move to W7 with W8 always just around the corner. If there's any evidence that W8 is as stable as XP and will last more than a couple years, I'll migrate.
But anyway, thanks for this encouraging post.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Richard Lyall said:
So will there still be a "last XP version" made available indefinitely in case of the need to reinstall L4 on an older XP machine?
And if so will it sync properly with the newest version of L4\5?
I would wager that the one you're currently running might be it. A few bug fixes might be made, but you'll have to "set internet to no" on your XP boxes. That will prevent logos from upgrading (or trying to) on the XP machines. Then again since Bradley indicated that there is code in place to prevent a non XP install from installing on XP, I think you'll be safe right along.
As far as syncing, I think as long as Logos has worked on SyncV2 - that is is here to stay for awhile.
Remember I don't work for Logos, but I'm guessing based upon what facts are available.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Dave Hooton said:
I'd agree. I got a similar upgrade from Windows XP to the new Vista (some time ago!) but I installed it clean, alongside XP. Needless to say, I didn't like Vista and the machine automatically booted into XP after a short while. You might have that option with W8 (or fully backup W7 before you install it) ...
Actually, the simplest option is to install VirtualBox to your Windows machine and install Windows 8 as a guest OS (running in VirtualBox). You can do that now with the Release Preview.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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mitchellisdumb said:
Windows 8 includes the new tiled interface (they call in Metro) but it includes a more familiar desktop as well. As far as I know, command line will work as it always has. The main reason they added the tiled interface option was to better support tablets.
The problem for me is, they removed the Start button. You seem to be forced to pull up apps through the silly Metro tiles, that's the only way I can find. Then it flips to the more familiar desktop. I do confess I hate it.
You can still run CMD to do command line stuff - with the same caveat as above (it's less efficient to do - move to Metro interface, click the CMD tile assuming you already put it on there, then it flips back to the desktop.)
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Dominick Sela said:
The problem for me is, they removed the Start button. You seem to be forced to pull up apps through the silly Metro tiles, that's the only way I can find.
I've read in a few places that the Windows key still brings up a Start button-like UI where you can type in the app you want to run. Unfortunately I don't have Win8 yet to try that approach. If I can find the articles in which I read these instructions, I'll post links.
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
I've read in a few places that the Windows key still brings up a Start button-like
I believe that you'll be able to start typing anywhere in the interface (metro or desktop) and Windows 8 will bring up a list of apps (similar to typing in the dialog box on the start menu). On the release preview this brings up a blank page with icons for any apps with names that contain what your type. There is a selection that brings up a grid showing all installed apps (similar to launchpad on Macs [:#]).
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Donnie Hale said:
If I can find the articles in which I read these instructions, I'll post links.
I haven't read this exhaustively. But knowing the depth and precision of Scott's posts, I suspect this will be a great resource for Win8 users:
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8ProductivityWhoMovedMyCheeseOhThereItIs.aspx
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
haven't read this exhaustively. But knowing the depth and precision of Scott's posts, I suspect this will be a great resource for Win8 users:
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8ProductivityWhoMovedMyCheeseOhThereItIs.aspx
Barring a miracle, which I am praying for, my next machine will ship with Windows 8. Thanks for the link.
By the way, if you are buying a new computer, it is worth getting the extended warranty. My laptop died shortly after the warranty expired.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden Williams said:
By the way, if you are buying a new computer, it is worth getting the extended warranty. My laptop died shortly after the warranty expired.
Don't you know that they program computers and other products to self-destruct right after the warranty expires? [;)]
Just kidding, but it almost seems that way.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Lynden Williams said:
By the way, if you are buying a new computer, it is worth getting the extended warranty. My laptop died shortly after the warranty expired.
As a rule, I don't buy extended warranties. Statistics show they are usually a waste of money. And I build my own desktops so I am my own warranty repair center. But my laptop hard drive died at six months and I had it replaced under warranty no charge for parts or labor.
Since the laptop tends to run hot I suspect that was a factor in the failure. So I purchased a one year extension on the warranty for less than a new drive would cost. Should it fail again it is money well spent. If it doesn't fail it was cheap insurance.
As far as the end of life for Logos Windows XP support, I bought WIndows 7 as soon as it was released after having run it for several months in RC version. Within six months all of our systems (eight in all) were running Windows 7 and we've never looked back. Sometimes ya just have to buy a new car and retire the old clunker to the junkyard.
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Bob Schlessman said:
As a rule, I don't buy extended warranties. Statistics show they are usually a waste of money.
I agree, but it is always worth doing a cost analysis. I ALWAYS get them with my Macs. My wireless keyboard for my iMac, for example, failed on me last month. It was replaced with a new one, which was most of the cost of the warranty. I also had a row of pixels go out. That repair would have been $400+ (the cost of a new video panel).
The worst decision I ever made about not purchasing an extended warranty: My dad bought a $60 boom box for my 6 year old son. The 2 year extended warranty was only $8 (I did not know that at the time). The manufacturers warranty was only 90 days. About 120 days into the purchase, the boom box wouldn't turn on! Thankfully a nice manager did a swap for me and allowed me to purchase the extended service plan on the spot.
I always recommend more consideration for extended warranties when purchasing a laptop… but you have to weigh the costs. A $100, 3 year warranty for a $1500 laptop makes much more sense than a $60 warranty for a $377 "walmart special." [;)]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
It will not corrupt an existing installation on Windows XP.
Recent versions of Logos 4 include a check that prevents them from automatically downloading an update that is not supported by the current OS. (So if, hypothetically, Logos 4.7 is tagged as Vista-only, and you're running Logos 4.6 on Windows XP, running "update now" will display "No updates available".)
If you manually download the installer from the Internet and try to run it, it will check your OS and display an error message informing you that it's not supported.
So what would happen if I needed to do a fresh install on an XP system? Will there be a link to the last stable XP build?0 -
Bob Schlessman said:
As a rule, I don't buy extended warranties. Statistics show they are usually a waste of money. And I build my own desktops so I am my own warranty repair center. But my laptop hard drive died at six months and I had it replaced under warranty no charge for parts or labor.
They're only a waste of money until you become one of the statistics.
I bought an extra 3 year warranty on a 2 year old DELL laptop. From that warranty I've had:
- new HD
- new graphics card
- new screen
- 2 new fansI reckon, with DELL's repair tariffs, in the UK at least, the warranty has paid for itself 4 or 5 times over.
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Richard Lyall said:
They're only a waste of money until you become one of the statistics.
I bought an extra 3 year warranty on a 2 year old DELL laptop. From that warranty I've had:
- new HD
- new graphics card
- new screen
- 2 new fansI reckon, with DELL's repair tariffs, in the UK at least, the warranty has paid for itself 4 or 5 times over.
You were one of the few who came out ahead. And extended warranties on laptops do tend to be more cost effective. The failure rate tends to run higher than on desktops. Also, being in the U.K. would put it into a different light. But I stand by my original statement. In general extended warranties don't pay off.
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Richard Lyall said:
I bought an extra 3 year warranty on a 2 year old DELL laptop. From that warranty I've had:
- new HD
- new graphics card
- new screen
- 2 new fansWow. I've had Macs for 21 years and I've never had a hardware issue...
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
Wow. I've had Macs for 21 years and I've never had a hardware issue...
One tends to get what one pays for. Macs are somewhat more costly but they seem to have better quality parts installed.
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Richard Lyall said:
So what would happen if I needed to do a fresh install on an XP system? Will there be a link to the last stable XP build?
There's bound to be a DVD to memorialise the event[:)]
Realistically, you'd better start archiving your resources and the two msi files at C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Logos4\Install\Installers (one for Prerequisites and one for Logos4). You could use Method 3 to install but Method 1 shows you how to use the msi files in place of the download link.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Richard Lyall said:Bob Schlessman said:
As a rule, I don't buy extended warranties. Statistics show they are usually a waste of money. And I build my own desktops so I am my own warranty repair center. But my laptop hard drive died at six months and I had it replaced under warranty no charge for parts or labor.
They're only a waste of money until you become one of the statistics.
I bought an extra 3 year warranty on a 2 year old DELL laptop. From that warranty I've had:
- new HD
- new graphics card
- new screen
- 2 new fansI reckon, with DELL's repair tariffs, in the UK at least, the warranty has paid for itself 4 or 5 times over.
Similar experience with my Dell XPS 1330M.
With other notebooks (HP, Acer, Toshiba) I stay with 2 year European warranty (it has to be 2 years here by the law, which is nice). I cannot remeber a notebook I would not have to use warranty. May be it is just me... [:(]
Bohuslav
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Bob Pritchett said:
This will not disable any XP systems, but future releases of books may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and thus will not be usable on Windows XP systems.
Bob, please forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere:
I purchased Boice's Expositional Commentaries (27 vols.) on CD-Rom a long time back. It is still sealed and misplaced among my 10,000s of CDs. When (or should I say "IF"?) I ever find it, will I be able to install it to my Libronix 3 computer, sync and upgrade my Logos 4 or Logos 5 installation? How will a Logos customer go about installing Libronix-based resources? Please set me straight if this abandoning support for Windows XP and MacOs Leopard will not also result in the jettison of all the old Logos 1, 2, and 3 resources. There are third parties (IVP?) still publishing for the WinXP platform using Libronix.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
I purchased Boice's Expositional Commentaries (27 vols.) on CD-Rom a long time back. It is still sealed and misplaced among my 10,000s of CDs. When (or should I say "IF"?) I ever find it, will I be able to install it to my Libronix 3 computer, sync and upgrade my Logos 4 or Logos 5 installation?
If it's sealed, surely you can just call CS with the serial number?
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Super Tramp said:
How will a Logos customer go about installing Libronix-based resources?
Through L3 or by calling customer service. Nothing should be changing in that matter.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Super Tramp said:
When (or should I say "IF"?) I ever find it, will I be able to install it to my Libronix 3 computer
Yes, keep a computer for Libronix 3 and keep it on IE9 as there are problems with dialogue boxes in Win 8 i.e. L3 needs an IE10 Fix.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I have a question that I don't see that anyone has asked yet.
Does this mean that as of 10/26/2012, if L4 XP development indeed does end, that any bugs left in, or features still missing from the last XP compatible release, will remain that way through all eternity?
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
will remain that way through all eternity
It may last until Christ returns[:)]
If you don't get 4.6a soon you'll have a buggy Word List (but I'm not certain anything will be fixed!). More importantly, is every document now on Sync v2?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Paul Golder said:
Does this mean that as of 10/26/2012, if L4 XP development indeed does end, that any bugs left in, or features still missing from the last XP compatible release, will remain that way through all eternity?
εἰς αἰῶνα
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Paul Golder said:
Does this mean that as of 10/26/2012, if L4 XP development indeed does end, that any bugs left in, or features still missing from the last XP compatible release, will remain that way through all eternity?
εἰς αἰῶνα
Και οι άγγελοι έκλαψε
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Logos didn't send this out as a customer service email. That's just plain bad business.
I just recently committed to one of the back-to-school specials. So now I need to find another pile of money and lose two weeks of my life trying to either upgrade the OS or getting another machine. Not a particularly appealing proposition. I can't really think of turning the PC into an L3 unit but maybe that will be more supportable.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Michael Ballai said:
Logos didn't send this out as a customer service email. That's just plain bad business.
As per Bob's original post, this is an advance notice to request input from customers regarding our (not yet final) plans to drop Windows XP support:
When the final decision is made, you should see communication about the change via all possible channels (so that no one is surprised).Bob Pritchett said:So this is our first advance notice, and your chance to speak up if there's a really compelling reason we should not drop XP on October 26, 2012. If we don't hear a compelling argument, we'll promote this news via other channels besides the forums soon.
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Paul Golder said:
Does this mean that as of 10/26/2012, if L4 XP development indeed does end, that any bugs left in, or features still missing from the last XP compatible release, will remain that way through all eternity?
From the original post:
If XP support ends on 10/26, it's safe to assume that all major new features and bug fixes will be in "future releases" that don't run on Windows XP. However, we may choose to ship a 4.6x SR (to Windows XP users) to fix a critical bug, or make sure the product keeps syncing properly, even if new document types are added in newer versions of Logos 4, etc.Bob Pritchett said:future releases of Logos Bible Software will require Windows Vista SP2 or newer.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
If XP support ends on 10/26, it's safe to assume that all major new features and bug fixes will be in "future releases" that don't run on Windows XP. However, we may choose to ship a 4.6x SR (to Windows XP users) to fix a critical bug, or make sure the product keeps syncing properly, even if new document types are added in newer versions of Logos 4, etc.
Wow! A 100% complete answer with absolutely no commitment to anything said whatsoever.
Did you ever run for office Bradley?
[:D]
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
Wow! A 100% complete answer with absolutely no commitment to anything said whatsoever.
It's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future. [:)]
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
It's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.
Are there any other kinds of predictions (try making a prediction for 1939). Perhaps that's the reason for the smiley. [^o)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Michael Ballai said:
I can't really think of turning the PC into an L3 unit but maybe that will be more supportable.
L3 had an "IE9 fix" applied when it was supported. Now it needs an "IE10 fix", so beware of Windows 8 or updating to IE10 as there are problems with important dialogue boxes e.g. Search dialogues.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I haven't seen much problem with L3, whether on XP or W7/32 (outside the IE issue which apparently was headachy throughout). If indeed the future W8 or W9 supports a W7 virtual box, we're looking at many, many years of great L3 Bible study. Paid for. Done.
But we're talking L4 on XP and I wouldn't put any bets on that at all. In fact I wouldn't put any bets on L4 at all, due to the layering (I'm talking about the software without constant bug-feeding and so on). I really look forward to 'L6' when much of this is hopefully in the past.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
If indeed the future W8 or W9 supports a W7 virtual box, we're looking at many, many years of great L3 Bible study.
Get Win 7 whilst you can and use VirtualBox (free)!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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For anyone googling this later (L3 in Virtual Box on W7/64) if you start getting lockups, consider bringing the Virtual Box down periodically. Due to W7's tremendous ability to go thru multiple sleep modes with no observable problem, the Virtual Box appears to be 'the first to go'. Today it was locking up my mouse until I rebooted the Virtual Box.
Which as I'm at it, I just received an update on the Intel video driver; if you're using these you might want to check given L4's video intensity; also there was an update on the Intel memory handling too (I think; both were good for L4).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
For anyone googling this later (L3 in Virtual Box on W7/64) if you start getting lockups, consider bringing the Virtual Box down periodically. Due to W7's tremendous ability to go thru multiple sleep modes with no observable problem, the Virtual Box appears to be 'the first to go'. Today it was locking up my mouse until I rebooted the Virtual Box.
Which as I'm at it, I just received an update on the Intel video driver; if you're using these you might want to check given L4's video intensity; also there was an update on the Intel memory handling too (I think; both were good for L4).
I've been running L3 in W7 (64) without problems (other than the IE9 problem which has a fix). Admitedly, I don't use it much anymore, but it seems to work just fine—no virtual box.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I think the real problem with abandoning support for XP now is that we have pegged updating to the end of service from Microsoft which is 2014. A whole lot of laborers in God's service run on a frayed shoestring. I can always stay on with my Mac, but it too is on borrowed time. I can see the gauntlet for Snow Leopard being pushed out too in the next year or so.
I'm going to look at Win 8 on my old machine. There's no way, short of a miracle, that I can buy a new machine.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Michael Ballai said:
There's no way, short of a miracle, that I can buy a new machine. I'm going to look at Win 8 on my old machine.
I turned around the two sentences in your quote, and seriously, I don't understand this rationale (which has been made by some here in the last few days) of jumping from XP to Win8.
You've got an old machine, okay. You're running XP now - fine. Vista, known to be a resource hog and buggy and all, is completely out of question - clear.
But why looking to a brand new OS which is geared towards hardware components you don't have and optimized for usage patterns you'll never show on your XP box? Probably it won't even have drivers for your hardware, most probably it will come with many bugs yet to be fixed - or remain unfixed, if they only occur in combination with outdated hardware and components no one even can recall the specs for?
If I was in your shoes, I'd look to put Win 7 onto the old box. Proven, mature, drivers exist.
On the other hand, it may be some days 'til they come out with the first betas of Logos XY that will require OS features beyond XP. And while these mature to stable, everybody can decide again - since they now have a "stop updates" component for Android 2.1 users, maybe they program the same for L4/5/6. After all, your current system will continue to work, it's just future functionality you're missing by not upgrading.
My 2c
Have joy in the Lord!
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Thanks Bob. I think this is a great idea.
For what it's worth, in my experience Windows 7 runs very well even on older machines designed for XP.
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I rarely use L4...I'm a die-hard L3 user. Unless L5 makes a conscious effort to include some of the features that are part of the L3 experience, I will probably be stuck having to use L3 for a long time to come. I would love to WANT to move to L5, but I am leary and doubtful that I will get to. As it stands now, I am planning on buying 3-6 L3 backup machines through ebay that are similar to my current configuration (as funds become available).
From what I've heard about Win 8, its new features are almost all geared to touch screens. I agree that there may be a backlash against Win 8. I've used Vista since 2008 on my Dell XPS M1530. I bought the additional 3-yr in-home warranty and found it to be the best money I ever spent. That warrantty expired in April, so I'm flying without a net now.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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