Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012
Comments
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Michael Ballai said:
I'm going to look at Win 8 on my old machine.
What is your old machine? How old?
Odds are that Win 7 will work on a desktop but there is a tilt the other way for a laptop.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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George ... you're lucky your L3 works on W7. I'm not sure why but W7-64 is flaky-ish with L3. I actually run an L3 on W7/64 mainly to bring down books (I keep the Virtual Box away from the internet, updates, etc). But it has trouble on redraws after you move the panels (the old remaining). It's easy to force a redraw though.
But relative to David Paul's comment, I agree with him there's a lot that L3 either does (and L4 doesn't) or L3 does considerably better. I use L4 for strange searches over the whole library, and it saves a little time periodically on a right-click lemma lookup. Other than that, it's pretty. I think Vista was pretty too. Both spent a lot of time on 'pretty'.
Again, I still think the last 3 years discussion will be long forgotten when L6 arrives, no matter the underlying platform. And who knows ... maybe by that time the iPad concept will be fully functional and L6 will be a take-off of the iPad version.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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CNN http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/03/tech/gaming-gadgets/microsoft-windows-7/index.html?iref=obinsite
Just reported that Windows XP is no longer the most popular operating system. They give the stats. Windows 7 = 42.76% with XP being 42.52.
Seems there is still a ton of XP users and I haven't heard many good things about Windows 8. In fact my computer guy is really worried because he feels Windows 8 may be a bust and he doesn't have a good alternative. He is still building new machines with Windows XP and people are still jumping on them and he can't keep a used XP machine more than a day in the store. He will admit the demand for Windows 7 is increasing.
I have had a windows 7 machine for 2 years and it is okay but no where as nice as Windows XP once you go beyond the normal run of the mill stuff.
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Ed Blough said:
They give the stats. Windows 7 = 42.76% with XP being 42.52
Converted to real numbers, that is 425 Million XP machines currently in use.
425 million people, 425 million potential Logos customers...
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Ed Blough said:
I have had a windows 7 machine for 2 years and it is okay but no where as nice as Windows XP once you go beyond the normal run of the mill stuff
There are a number of things which bug me regarding the W7 OS such as having prescribed ways to navigate through the path maze—if you don't follow the prescribed path to access certain files you will be locked out of your own files. I am quite happy, however, with W7 64 since it allows access to more memory than is possible with Xp. I would recommend W7 over Xp (DISCLAIMER: I skipped over Xp, and 98).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Paul Golder said:
Converted to real numbers, that is 425 Million XP machines currently in use.
425 million people, 425 million potential Logos customers...
Every one of those machines has the specs to run L4?
None of those people have access to a second computer?
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Paul Golder said:
Converted to real numbers, that is 425 Million XP machines currently in use.
Much of corporate America is still running WinXP and those who aren't are using a flavor of UNIX. It is the individual consumer who keeps upgrading to new operating systems. I think Bob is aware of that and is focusing his efforts towards the consumer market. Corporations don't buy Bible software and the Logos EULA is written for the "individual."
Not really. "Possible" but not "potential." I am one Logos user with 10 WinXP machines in use at my house.Paul Golder said:425 million people, 425 million potential Logos customers...
I think Bob would be tickled with 2% of the installed user base choosing Logos. Even 1% would be viewed as an achievement by the industry. ( I'm not talking about WniXP here, Bob already knows his customers have upgraded.)We are talking Bible software and those interested in the Bible are a minority of computer users.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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fgh said:
Every one of those machines has the specs to run L4?
Unlikely, but then again, not many XP machines meet L4 suggested specs, and yet it runs OK on them.
fgh said:None of those people have access to a second computer?
Interesting question, one that I cannot answer,
I know I do. But then again, a main advantage of owning Logos is their multiple computer software licence policy.
Seems like a shame to have more than one computer and not have the latest version of Logos running on them all...
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
Seems like a shame to have more than one computer and not have the latest version of Logos running on them all...
Personally, I think it's a shame that Logos has had to wait for people to update to newer technology. On the Mac side, I'm grumbling because users still on 10.6 (which is only three years old) are holding back Mac development.
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Super Tramp said:Paul Golder said:
Converted to real numbers, that is 425 Million XP machines currently in use.
Much of corporate America is still running WinXP and those who aren't are using a flavor of UNIX. It is the individual consumer who keeps upgrading to new operating systems. I think Bob is aware of that and is focusing his efforts towards the consumer market. Corporations don't buy Bible software and the Logos EULA is written for the "individual."
Not really. "Possible" but not "potential." I am one Logos user with 10 WinXP machines in use at my house.Paul Golder said:425 million people, 425 million potential Logos customers...
I think Bob would be tickled with 2% of the installed user base using Logos. Even 1% would be viewed as an achievement by the industry. ( not talking about WniXP here, Bob already knows his customers have upgraded.)We are talking Bible software and those interested in the Bible are a minority of computer users.
It was just a hyperbole.
BTW:
POTENTIAL
po·ten·tial adj \pə-ˈten(t)-shəl\
Definition of POTENTIAL
1: existing in possibility : capable of
development into actuality <potential benefits>2: expressing possibility; specifically
: of, relating to, or constituting a verb phrase expressing
possibility, liberty, or power by the use of an auxiliary with the
infinitive of the verb (as in “it may rain”)"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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alabama24 said:Paul Golder said:
Seems like a shame to have more than one computer and not have the latest version of Logos running on them all...
Personally, I think it's a shame that Logos has had to wait for people to update to newer technology. On the Mac side, I'm grumbling because users still on 10.6 (which is only three years old) are holding back Mac development.
It is a shame.
Every time I write a $5,000.00 check to a hospital for my daughter's cancer treatment, it's a shame.
When we need to decide between groceries or electricity, it's a shame
It is a shame.
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
Seems like a shame to have more than one computer and not have the latest version of Logos running on them all...
Perhaps some would rather have one computer (or more) dedicated to L3 and another (or more) dedicated to L4 (+).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Paul Golder said:
Seems like a shame to have more than one computer and not have the latest version of Logos running on them all...
I have a 2001 or so iMac with OS 9, which I still use for bookkeeping. Should I really demand Logos make sure L4 runs on that? And what about my even older Performa with OS 7 or something?
On the other hand, I would expect them to support 10.6 quite a while longer.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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I apologize for being ill-tempered in my previous post, I was just trying to show that there are indeed some of us that cannot afford to upgrade in the foreseeable future.
George Somsel said:Paul Golder said:Seems like a shame to have more than one computer and not have the latest version of Logos running on them all...
Perhaps some would rather have one computer (or more) dedicated to L3 and another (or more) dedicated to L4 (+).
True, very true, and my desire for continued XP development is purely self serving."As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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fgh said:
I have a 2001 or so iMac with OS 9, which I still use for bookkeeping. Should I really demand Logos make sure L4 runs on that? And what about my even older Performa with OS 7 or something?
If there were 425 million OS 9 machines in use in the world, maybe then...
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
It is a shame.
Every time I write a $5,000.00 check to a hospital for my daughter's cancer treatment, it's a shame.
When we need to decide between groceries or electricity, it's a shame
It is a shame.
We hear you Paul.
I had to curtail most of my Logos resource purchasing when my health went bad this year. (I am going back to the E/R this afternoon. and am a bit worried about my "Classic Commentaries" Pre-Pubs. coming out this month.) I should not have to worry about upgrading right now.
We run two Logos licenses on iMac Lion, WinXP, Vista, and Windows 7. I am grateful to Bob for allowing this versatility but I really don't want to upgrade at this time.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Paul - Sorry to hear about your daughter. I will be praying for you both.
My comments were not intended to be insensitive to anyone. At some point, however, a tech company will need to advance. There will be those, like myself, who stay at the bleeding edge. Most will stay somewhere in the middle. There will also be those who stay behind.
Most of my time is spent in the iOS forums. I have an original iPad, which was a gift. Since I am unemployed, it doesn't look likely that I will get a new one in the near future... (unless another gift comes along, hint, hint). Apple has already announced that the original iPad will not be able to update to iOS 6 (which comes out this month). Logos will have to decide at some point, when to end support for my device. I don't think that day is imminent, but it will come sooner than later. When that happens, my iPhone will be "stuck in time" just like all these XP machines we are talking about. I will have lost nothing. I will still be able to view my books, etc. but I will not be able to take advantage of the newest features. I will be left out until I am able to update. It is not mean or inconsiderate of Logos. That is just the way that it is.
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I'll be praying for you too, ST.
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alabama24 said:
My comments were not intended to be insensitive to anyone
No offence taken. I would love to ride on "the cutting edge", but alas it's not in the cards.
-->> insert uncharacteristic diatribe on what Bible software should be here <<--
I know what you all are saying, it's just so depressing to sit there deleting one community pricing title after another out of my account.
We do what we can...
alabama24 said:Sorry to hear about your daughter. I will be praying for you both.
Thank you, last scan shows that she is still in remission, and she is back at university having the time of her life. Praise God!
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
last scan shows that she is still in remission, and she is back at university having the time of her life. Praise God!
Praise God, indeed!!
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Paul Golder said:
it's just so depressing to sit there deleting one community pricing title after another out of my account. We do what we can...
I am there with you. My hospital bill for the month of May alone was as much as I spent on my first 10,000 Logos books. I spent March in a nursing home and 5 more hospitalizations of a week or more each. It can get discouraging deleting CP or Pre-Pubs.
THE GOOD NEWS IS.. down the road, when things get better, Logos will have some sales and discounts we will be able to take advantage of. I don't expect Logos to freeze all progress. I'm not offended by other's joyful estate. Their prayers are all I ask for.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
I'm not offended by other's joyful estate. Their prayers are all I ask for.
I will keep both you and Paul's daughter in mind. Be thankful for God's love (as I am sure you are).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Super Tramp said:
I don't expect Logos to freeze all progress. I'm not offended by other's joyful estate.
+1 [Y]
Super Tramp said:I am there with you. My hospital bill for the month of May alone was as much as I spent on my first 10,000 Logos books.
I made the mistake of asking to see what the insurance company paid for the first year. She handed me a 72 page document and when I saw the number, I said: "What do you need my little co-pay for?" [:O]
You'll be in my prayers.
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
Thank you, last scan shows that she is still in remission, and she is back at university having the time of her life. Praise God!
Amen! [:)]
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George Somsel said:
I will keep both you and Paul's daughter in mind. Be thankful for God's love (as I am sure you are).
Thanks George. His Grace is amazing, if not for His love, and the love of His people, I don't see how we could have made it.
I don't know how Job did it, sitting there on the ashes, scraping his scabs, and all his friends come by just to tell him "You know, this is all your own fault"
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Ed Blough said:
Seems there is still a ton of XP users and I haven't heard many good things about Windows 8. In fact my computer guy is really worried because he feels Windows 8 may be a bust and he doesn't have a good alternative.
Beneath the Metro hood Windows 8 is a leaner, faster Windows 7 without a Start menu; and many functions are simplified (e.g. Task Manager) or work better (e.g. file copy, backup). Free replacements for the Start menu are available; ranging from a clone of Win 7 to an enhanced menu with different skins and many options. The two I have tried in the Win 8 RTM (trial version) can boot straight to the Desktop, bypassing Metro.
The real problem people will face is upgrading an old computer from XP, so I recommend that you consider upgrading to Windows 7 as you can run a compatibility check beforehand and its retail price has dropped recently. If it is incompatible then it clarifies the way to go!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I can appreciate the motivation and drive that has put Logos at the top of Christian software, however high product prices and the need to keep up-to-date with hardware and operating systems, whether on Macs or Windows, is providing a real obstacle in my part of the world (New Zealand) in attempting to introducie Seminary and Bible College Students to Logos, and encouraging them to think in terms of a Logos software library for their future ministry in the Lord's service.
I remember when Logos 1 and 2 were first introduced to New Zealand, Logos adoped a generous policy of reduced pricing for NZ students and ministers. That's when I first began to work with Logos even though I was a Mac fanatic, and used an emulation program to have access to Logos, before also getting a Windows machine, just to keep up-to-date and get the most out of my Logos library. I have been able to grow my library through the years.
Sadly that is not the situation any more, and despite my promoting Logos, and demonstrating its advantages to my students over the last few years, I have all but given up now since it seems almost callous and cruel to dangle the unaffordable before their eyes.
Terminating supporting Windows XP and forecasting the end of Mac Leopard and probably Snow Leopard might not mean much to Logos management in the US but it won't help many students here.
Arthur Palmer.
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Agree, Rev Palmer. Something changed with 'Logos4'. I'll leave it at that.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I understand the need to take advantage of the newer operating systems. It would be nice if there was some level of support and compatability with Logos on XP. What of the people that can't afford to upgrade beyond XP at this time?
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Steve Mellor said:
What of the people that can't afford to upgrade beyond XP at this time?
Steve - First, welcome to the forums!
Let me clarify... Logos 4 is not Cinderella which will turn into a pumpkin come November. You will still be able to use the software then as you can do today. What you won't be able to do is to run future versions of the software.
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Seems like it's gone from "gathering feedback" to "official announcement". It's on the Logos blog now.
Donnie
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alabama24 said:
What you won't be able to do is to run future versions of the software
And not use some future resources:
"This will not disable any XP systems, but future book releases may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and therefore, may not be usable on Windows XP systems."
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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I'm retired on a very limited income. My 5 year old HP Pavilion lap top does not support enough memory to make purchasing any new Windows OS's viable. So the thousands of dollars of investment in Logos just comes to an end unless I spend between $500 to $1000 to replace my computer. I would if I could. I know Microsoft was going to end support for XP eventually, but the reality is that I'm not in a place to upgrade.
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
Paul Golder said:alabama24 said:
What you won't be able to do is to run future versions of the software
And not use some future resources:
"This will not disable any XP systems, but future book releases may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and therefore, may not be usable on Windows XP systems."
The same was true of new resources on L3. Until recently, new resources were still useable in L3… I have no inside info, but assume the same will be true with L5. But again, users will not have lost anything… they will just have to update moving forward.
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Bob,
I use Logos 4 on two laptops, one a Dell XP and the other a MacBookpro on 10.7. Should I refuse future updates to Logos4 on my XP machine?
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alabama24 said:
The same was true of new resources on L3. Until recently, new resources were still useable in L3… I have no inside info, but assume the same will be true with L5. But again, users will not have lost anything… they will just have to update moving forward
True
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Scott Pixler said:
Bob,
I use Logos 4 on two laptops, one a Dell XP and the other a MacBookpro on 10.7. Should I refuse future updates to Logos4 on my XP machine?
From what has been said, that will not be necessary as Logos will recognize that you are running Xp and will not update.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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i have windows Vista. I don't know if its Vista SP2. will your updates run on Windows Vista?
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Your need to upgrade is understandable. YET this is notification at the last minute.
A year ago, you could have announced plans to make changes on or about
the time MS produced a new OS. Periodic updates to that announcement
("yup, still looks like we will change with them," etc.) would have been
reasonable.My dedicated XP machine has over 3100 of your books. Buying totally new equipment and OS is not in my plans this year. I wanted the new OS to get the bugs out before investing.
Now, I've committed to most of your community pricing, and do not see a need to purchase a $3500 machine just because you SUDDENLY come up with the bright idea to change.
When you add this to the fact, that my fastest XP machine would not run with your software (Even with a high priced Computer man here working with your Customer Service Techs), so I had to acquire the dedicated machine last fall to run it, that really makes me wonder what you derive from your Bible study, except dollars.
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Jim Gammon said:
a need to purchase a $3500 machine
I don't think ANYBODY has claimed that hardware of this level is required.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Jim Gammon said:
Now, I've committed to most of your community pricing, and do not see a need to purchase a $3500 machine just because you SUDDENLY come up with the bright idea to change.
When you add this to the fact, that my fastest XP machine would not run with your software (Even with a high priced Computer man here working with your Customer Service Techs), so I had to acquire the dedicated machine last fall to run it, that really makes me wonder what you derive from your Bible study, except dollars.
If you acquire a machine last fall, then it will easily run Windows 7 on it. There is no need to go to Windows 8---the Win 7 upgrade can be had for just over $100. You don't have to buy hardware (Even if you did new hardware, $3500 is 3-4 times as much as you'd need to get a good machine. I bought a laptop for Logos last fall for $750).
Also your XP version of Logos isn't going to stop working. And I would bet all Community pricing resources will still work on the final XP compatible version of Logos, simply because those kinds of resource don't have "special features" that might need the latest version.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Once again, the mm's signal they are all around us.
The machine acquired last fall is an XP rebuilt with quality materials, but it was not last fall's latest model -- which would have been a stupid purchase when I planned to obtain the latest technology and software in 2013.
Perhaps you are a product of Government Schools, or perhaps the IQ has not reached your physical height. Whatever it is, next time before ymaking a stupid rejoinder you might consider asking an intelligent question to obtain enough facts to warrant your reply.
If you didn't speak in Charlotte last night, then the Convention organizers missed the opportunity to schedule one of their own kind!
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Todd Phillips said:
(Even if you did new hardware, $3500 is 3-4 times as much as you'd need to get a good machine. I bought a laptop for Logos last fall for $750).
Depends on the country and import fees and exchange rates....[:|]
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Once again, an MM signals his keyboard works. Unfortunately, not his mind.
When will people like you ever learn to ask intelligent questions before you fire your intellectual blanks?
Frankly, I suspect the answer is never.
On the other hand, evolutionists should rejoice. One suspects the missing link is identifying itself.
Enjoy the mire!
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Hi Jim, welcome to the Forum!
Jim Gammon said:Once again, an MM signals his keyboard works. Unfortunately, not his mind.
Please notice that i was addressing Todd.
Hope your day goes better.
Love in Christ brother,
steve0 -
ken alexander said:
i have windows Vista. I don't know if its Vista SP2. will your updates run on Windows Vista?
I'd assume when Logos put in the kinimum service Pack level in their announcement, it's for a reason, such as .NET support or specific bugfixes from "original" Vista or SP1. If you are not on the lates SP (Service Pack), you should try to upgrade your Vista to it - these are free and fix some relevant bugs and security holes in the operating system.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Respectfully Bob, 60 days does not qualify as "advance notice". 60 days notice in the software world IS last minute notice. The official end of sales for PCs with Windows XP pre-installed was October 22, 2010. So you're basically saying that 2 year old computers with XP on them won't be supported. I don't think that's reasonable. I would expect Logos as a software development company to have better planning and communication than this.
For many of us, Logos and our related libraries are significant investments. There are many whose investments far exceed the cost of the computer on which the software runs. For you to drop support for XP with only 60 days notice really disrespects your customers. I have worked in the software industry for years and I have never experienced this kind of approach to dropping support for an OS. I would strongly recommend that you consider a more well-planned and well executed communication strategy with your customers.Regards,
Bob A.
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Jim Gammon said:
My dedicated XP machine has over 3100 of your books. Buying totally new equipment and OS is not in my plans this year. I wanted the new OS to get the bugs out before investing.
Now, I've committed to most of your community pricing, and do not see a need to purchase a $3500 machine just because you SUDDENLY come up with the bright idea to change.
My daughter is having a problem with her old machine so I was looking at what was available. If you don't need a monitor, you can get a very decent desktop for around $500.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Jim Gammon said:
Once again, the mm's signal they are all around us.
The machine acquired last fall is an XP rebuilt with quality materials, but it was not last fall's latest model -- which would have been a stupid purchase when I planned to obtain the latest technology and software in 2013.
Perhaps you are a product of Government Schools, or perhaps the IQ has not reached your physical height. Whatever it is, next time before ymaking a stupid rejoinder you might consider asking an intelligent question to obtain enough facts to warrant your reply.
If you didn't speak in Charlotte last night, then the Convention organizers missed the opportunity to schedule one of their own kind!
Are you sure you aren't replying to a political blog? Such hostility is unbecoming on this forum especially when someone is simply attempting to give you some useful advice.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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As long as people like you keep interrupting, it cannot go better.
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