Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012
Comments
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I really want to keep using my Windows XP for new books as well. I am not pleased that Logos is discontinuing support for XP. Benjamin E. Vogel
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Wow. That really perked me up. And well worth it after that long drive back from Charlotte last night, gorging on MM's and trying to increase my intelligence quotient reading interstate signs, Now just to figure out how come I was on I-75 instead of I-86 Maybe I need some more XP..
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Hi again Jim,
Jim Gammon said:As long as people like you keep interrupting, it cannot go better
This is a public forum, so others will chime into the discussion.
Perhaps if you learn to use the Reply method, it would better help you keep a specific conversation in tact (see this wiki article: Reply post editor )
i hope that you do find the answer(s) you are looking for!
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Sorry to hear you are doing this. I've been with Logos for twelve years & went through quite a few changes. Promises made should be promises kept. I had planned to go to the grave with XP.
Randy Mlinek
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George: Once again you mm's attempt to mire the discussion in an area of your imagination. If you do not like hostility to imbecility, that revelation is certainly of interest to your biographers.
No one giving good advice has incurred hostility,
Every rational person is obligated to reject stupidity as much as immorality. For ultimately, stupidity is immorality, stealing rationality as a means of living. Advising others to stoop to its level in the name of civility is imbecility.
Therefore, since your advice is no better than theirs, why not turn from your life of thievery?
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These are privately owned forums, and as such they have rules of conduct. Number 3 being:
"Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together."
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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George is too young for biographers. And he hasn't read Ayn Rand yet.
Randy ... I know you're frustrated but there's nothing preventing you from using your Logos4 on XP for many years to come (assuming your computer similarly keeps going).
I'm still on Libronix on XP (several no less), running like a champ, periodically purchasing interesting Logos volumes (pre-2012 that is). Life is good and Logos can't touch me (except for more good books of course).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I've been with Logos for 5 years, and this is a real slap in the face! You can be sure that I will not buy anymore books from Logos, and will tell all my friends about the dropping of Windows xp. Very Poor customer service!!!
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Paul Golder said:
"Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together."
Thanks for the reminder Paul. It reminds me of something I read using Logos this afternoon.
1 If I speak in the languages of humans and angels but have no love, I have become a reverberating gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can understand all secrets and every form of knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains but have no love, I am nothing. 3 Even if I give away everything that I have and sacrifice myself, but have no love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is always patient;
love is always kind;
love is never envious
or arrogant with pride.
Nor is she conceited,
5 and she is never rude;
she never thinks just of herself
or ever gets annoyed.
She never is resentful;
6 is never glad with sin;
she’s always glad to side with truth,
and pleased that truth will win.
7 She bears up under everything;
believes the best in all;
there is no limit to her hope,
and never will she fall.
8 Love never fails. Now if there are prophecies, they will be done away with. If there are languages, they will cease. If there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For what we know is incomplete and what we prophesy is incomplete. 10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will be done away with.
11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up my childish ways. 12 Now we see only an indistinct image in a mirror, but then we will be face to face. Now what I know is incomplete, but then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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alabama24 said:
Thanks for the reminder Paul. It reminds me of something I read using Logos this afternoon.
Awesome stuff [Y]
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Love does not assault another with irrationality.
Love refuses to pick up the irrationality and assault "back".
When irrationality assumes it knows your business/situation in your living room, do you go along with it? Do you REALLY turn your checkbook over to irrationality to buy a $500 machine when you know it makes no possible earthly sense (and is bad stewardship) in the plans you have?
When irrationality in public says, "let me make you out to be a fool worse than me," does love go along with it? [If you say "yes" then you are also saying you cannot convert the Hindu or the Muslim, because you have agreed to go along with their irrationality.]
So, while I Corinthians 13 is a noble chapter to be followed at all times, one must ask what it has to do when attempting to block the cudgels of irrationality poured on their life, by exposing them as one assaulted with a knife would cry out, "help, he is stabbing me!"
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If you attempt to assault me with a knife or with irrationality in my living room, I will expose your nefariousness.
Yet, one realizes that bit of rationality may let too much light under your rock!
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Todd Phillips said:
And I would bet all Community pricing resources will still work on the final XP compatible version of Logos, simply because those kinds of resource don't have "special features" that might need the latest version.
I hope you didn't bet high.[:D] I would assume you're correct about most of them, but I imagine the Mormon collection would need at least one new datatype. The same goes for some of the Catholic and Patristic collections, and perhaps some others. But the 'average Evangelical' ones should be OK.
Of course, one can always buy the CP anyway, while it's still cheap, and wait to use it until one's updated.
LOGOS: you will need to put a notice on the product pages of all CP's and prepubs that won't download to XP (or Mac 10.5), and you will need to do that just about...yesterday. It's impossible for your customers to guess what will work and what won't. You should also send out e-mails to all who have ordered resources that won't work. You will probably get some pretty angry responses when you do, but they will be even worse if people don't find out until after their cards have been charged.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Jim Gammon said:
So, while I Corinthians 13 is a noble chapter to be followed at all times, one must ask what it has to do when attempting to block the cudgels of irrationality poured on their life, by exposing them as one assaulted with a knife would cry out, "help, he is stabbing me!"
Jim - enough with your childish behavior. Calling other forum members (including several who agree with your position!) "mental midgets" is certainly not demonstrating love. It seems like you have an axe to grind over this issue… please feel free to contact Bob directly. Your conduct breaks with the rules of the forums and I ask politely that you cease.
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Jim Gammon said:
George: Once again you mm's attempt to mire the discussion in an area of your imagination. If you do not like hostility to imbecility, that revelation is certainly of interest to your biographers.
No one giving good advice has incurred hostility,
Every rational person is obligated to reject stupidity as much as immorality. For ultimately, stupidity is immorality, stealing rationality as a means of living. Advising others to stoop to its level in the name of civility is imbecility.
Therefore, since your advice is no better than theirs, why not turn from your life of thievery?
And you seem to think that YOUR definition of rationality is determinative for all others—"I will be like God." Get down off your high horse thinking you are the arbiter of all things. You sound like a certain public official who seems to think that what he considers to be "fair" is what is actually fair (even though the situation is already unfair in the other direction and he would only make it even more unfair. Frankly, I have no use for your type.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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fgh said:
I would assume you're correct about most of them, but I imagine the Mormon collection would need at least one new datatype. The same goes for some of the Catholic and Patristic collections, and perhaps some others. But the 'average Evangelical' ones should be OK.
Good points. [;)]
fgh said:LOGOS: you will need to put a notice on the product pages of all CP's and prepubs that won't download to XP (or Mac 10.5), and you will need to do that just about...yesterday. It's impossible for your customers to guess what will work and what won't. You should also send out e-mails to all who have ordered resources that won't work. You will probably get some pretty angry responses when you do, but they will be even worse if people don't find out until after their cards have been charged.
[Y]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
I like Todd's optimism, but fgh is probably closer to the truth. I have a stack of poorly produced Libronix resources issued during the period Bob extended the Libronix-closure period. Once staff knows which side has the butter, it's guaranteed the floors going to be greasy (for Logos4/XP users).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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clark m. olmstead said:
I've been with Logos for 5 years, and this is a real slap in the face! You can be sure that I will not buy anymore books from Logos, and will tell all my friends about the dropping of Windows xp. Very Poor customer service!!!
And I'll bet you were disappointed when they closed the last button hook factory.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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fgh said:
I hope you didn't bet high.
I would assume you're correct about most of them, but I imagine the Mormon collection would need at least one new datatype. The same goes for some of the Catholic and Patristic collections, and perhaps some others. But the 'average Evangelical' ones should be OK.You're right. I missed the "data types" part when I read the announcement. I wonder if the new-datatype resources would still mostly work in Logos, but just be missing support for the tagging that uses the new datatypes.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Jim Gammon said:
Love does not assault another with irrationality.
Nor does love assault others with baseless accusations and characterizations.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Jim Gammon said:
If you attempt to assault me with a knife or with irrationality in my living room, I will expose your nefariousness.
Yet, one realizes that bit of rationality may let too much light under your rock!
Except that what you are practicing is not rationality, but irrationality. Go see a shrink.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Jim Gammon said:
As long as people like you keep interrupting, it cannot go better.
May I suggest that you move your bed to the other side of the room so you can get up on the right side?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George and alabama24, etc. : Thanks for displaying my point concerning mm's.
If you do not like the disclosure, then work your keyboard less and your mind more (WD-20 may assist).
As for having an axe to grind, there are two. One was stated regarding Logos. The other is about people assaulting others with irrationality. If you don't like having a mirror raised in front of your mind, that is tough.
It may be hard for you to admit it but some are your superiors. It would be lying (not childish) to say otherwise.
However, I do apologize for one thing. I should have realized this is a playpen, not a forum for rational discourse.
Wishing you all the best in your quest to get more cylinders firing.
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Todd Phillips said:
I wonder if the new-datatype resources would still mostly work in Logos, but just be missing support for the tagging that uses the new datatypes.
No, they simply won't download. I know from experience. There was an extremely buggy Mac release this spring with about 20 or so regressions, and I refused to download it for as long as I possibly could, but the result was that I also couldn't download the Catechism of the Catholic Church. When the Encyclicals shipped as well I had to give in. Everything else downloaded just fine, but not the ones with new datatypes. Hence my post.
There might be individual books that will download, though, even though others in the same collection won't.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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While we're on the subject of gnosticism, if you're lucky enough to have the Apostolic Fathers commentary by Grant (mid-1960s), the volume on Barnabas has an EXCELLENT listing/discussion of the gnostic concepts within early 2nd-century Christianity (not talking about the more well-known gnosticism that shows up in Nag Hammadi etc). He lists out each of the key greek words and their connectivity.
Of course somehow Barnabas works 'knowing' into the first/last and last/first though never actually discussing Jesus, substantially illustrating Jim's principles.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I am actually really disappointed with this news. My situation doesn't personally allow me to upgrade from XP at this time and so I will be left behind until my situation changes. I guess I understand why this is being done but I personally think it stinks.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Jim Gammon said:
If you do not like the disclosure, then work your keyboard less and your mind more (WD-20 may assist).
I might give the same advice to you.
Jim Gammon said:It may be hard for you to admit it but some are your superiors. It would be lying (not childish) to say otherwise.
I'm sure that is the case (including some on this forum), but you don't happen to be one of them even though you seem to think so.
Jim Gammon said:ever, I do apologize for one thing. I should have realized this is a playpen, not a forum for rational discourse.
It would seem that you are the insane one in the asylum claiming that the staff are the inmates.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Do I have to change my computer or can I simply upgrade my operating system?
I am not very pleased with this change.
Gerry Wegener
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I have Windows 7 at the office and Windows XP at home. How will I be affected -- particualarly with downloading books.
Regards, Michael Carr <><
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Gerry Wegener said:
Do I have to change my computer or can I simply upgrade my operating system?
I am not very pleased with this change.
Gerry Wegener
If your computer will run W7, all you need to do is to install W7. If your computer will not run W7, you need to get a new computer (or otherwise upgrade your existing computer which is probably a less desirable option than getting a new one).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Scott Pixler said:
I use Logos 4 on two laptops, one a Dell XP and the other a MacBookpro on 10.7. Should I refuse future updates to Logos4 on my XP machine?
There is no need to refuse updates; the system won't update to a version you can't run.
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Jim Gammon said:
Your need to upgrade is understandable. YET this is notification at the last minute.
We're sorry about this. The biggest driving force is our need to (at last, after putting it off for a couple years) move to .NET 4.0, which should have significant advantages for us (and for you, in a better product).
Unfortunately, .NET 4.5 is coming along with Windows 8 (it's actually out now), and it is an "in-place" install. .NET 4.0 will run side-by-side with .NET 3.0 on your system, but .NET 4.5 will overwrite .NET 4.0. And .NET 4.5 doesn't support XP.
(Other people don't like this, too: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/730732/net-framework-4-5-should-support-windows-xp-sp3,)
So, our options are to stick with .NET 3.5 -- out of date, with bugs, performance issues, lack of access to significant advantages -- or move to .NET 4.0 / 4.5, which we've been planning for a while. When we decided to move future release to .NET 4 it still supported XP; it's the new .NET 4.5 "upgrade in place, with no XP support" that creates the "new" problem, and thus our announcement.
We have done an analysis of our user base, and XP users are a small portion. Most importantly, they won't be "turned off", and it's our intention to provide the best support we can for as long as possible. At the moment, I don't know of any imminent changes that would make new books not work on XP, or any reason people couldn't happily run it and their books (and even new books) for many months / years into the future.
We intend to retain the ability to compile and release on the existing XP-compatible platform so that we can even do a "service pack" as necessary to 4.6. We're just giving advance notice that we'll be moving future releases to .NET 4, and thus losing this XP support.
I like to support things as long as possible, and am sympathetic to users who can't afford to upgrade, but at the same time, things have to move on, and XP (while it had a long life, and was sold for a long while) is 10 years old, and with Windows 8, now three whole generations out of date. That's a long run.
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Robert Armstrong said:
Respectfully Bob, 60 days does not qualify as "advance notice".
My just-posted message explains how this isn't so much a policy decision, as something driven by Microsoft's decision to have .NET 4.5 (just released) install "in place" rather than side-by-side, and to not add XP support. I'm sorry the notice isn't longer, but please do keep in mind that we aren't "ending" your ability to use Logos on XP -- we're just not advancing that platform with future developments. It still runs, and will continue to run, and should even support new books for some time to come.
Robert Armstrong said:I have worked in the software industry for years and I have never experienced this kind of approach to dropping support for an OS.
With respect, I propose that we're actually much better at supporting old OS's than many companies. (Apple practically forces new upgrades, regularly obsoletes old hardware and software, doesn't support 2-3 year old devices with the latest apps, etc.) While technically you could buy XP two years ago, it is really a 10-year old platform. Vista came out 6 years ago, and was clearly identified as the successor. Even if you subscribe to the "skip every other release" Windows strategy, you've had three years since Windows 7 came out. So even if XP was available, everyone who bought it in the last six years knew they were intentionally buying "the old version" of Windows.
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Robert Armstrong said:
I have worked in the software industry for years and I have never experienced this kind of approach to dropping support for an OS.
Really? Then you need to do some more reading of what's going on - how about this one for instance, Microsoft says no upgrade path for Windows 7 phones, some of which aren't even a year old?
http://www.crn.com/news/mobility/240002436/no-windows-phone-8-upgrade-path-for-wp7-users.htm
http://www.neowin.net/news/editorial-thanks-microsoft-for-no-wp8-upgrade-path
Or RIM confirming no upgrade path for Blackberry 7, released in August 2011!
InstallShield has quite a few products no longer upgradeable that are as little as 5 years old
The list goes on and on. I understand you are upset and this may have been a comment out of frustration, but if you objectively compare policies, Logos' policy is much more customer-friendly than many. As software vendors adapt .NET 4.5, you will see them do the exact same thing as Logos.
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I have XP and won't be upgrading, whatever it does, it will do. If I can no longer use Logos that will be what happens.
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Diane ... your Logos4 will continue operate on your XP. They just won't be updating it and resources that need the newer version won't download.
That sounds pretty scary but actually Logos4 is pretty complete, even in Bob's estimation (the owner). Most future updates aren't likely to matter a lot.
I run the older Libronix3. Love it. Don't need updates. Don't need headaches.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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You should not drop the support for Windows XP. The rationale? WindowsXP is still the leading OS when compare with Windows 7 from a news article as of August 1st, 2012
http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/01/microsoft-windows-market-share-july-2012/
Taking into consideration that Windows XP is so old but still tops the market share, that means there are still many systems are running on XP. Forcing people to upgrade to Windows 7(no one will upgrade to Vista, the reason is obvious)just because running the Logos software is not a good idea and not fair when XP is still the leading OS.
This would be particular true for many minsters who may not have much time to learn to debug Windows 7 which is much more difficult than XP systems.
Talking about Windows 8, historically Microsoft did not release any new release without big problems. Remember the first release of XP from Windows 3.1, problems were everywhere. Now the XP becomes a stable system only after this 11 years. Forcing people to abandon a stable system where nearly all bugs are fixed seems not a wise choice.
Please consider seriously and not to drop the support to XP. Thank you.
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Sorry, some follow up here
1. There are still many systems on sale which is running XP and there are still so many buyers out there. ( no market, no buyer)
2. The release of Windows 8 and Net 4.5 are not for outdated software reason but to chase Apple for the market share . If Microsoft is not successful to gain market share for Windows 8 and Net. 4.5, they will soon be releasing Windows 9, 10 , 11 in no time. Reading this article "iphone is bigger than all Microsoft service combined" will just add to my worries that Microsoft will be releasing new versions sooner and sonner.
Are you chasing the stars following Microsoft? We ministers, do not need the post-modern period of technology, we need a stable system so we can study the most ancient knowledge, our Lord's word. Please support us in doing so.
Sorry to take up so much space. God bless.
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Ho-Ngon Yung said:
Taking into consideration that Windows XP is so old but still tops the market share, that means there are still many systems are running on XP. Forcing people to upgrade to Windows 7(no one will upgrade to Vista, the reason is obvious)just because running the Logos software is not a good idea and not fair when XP is still the leading OS.
This would be particular true for many minsters who may not have much time to learn to debug Windows 7 which is much more difficult than XP systems.
Talking about Windows 8, historically Microsoft did not release any new release without big problems. Remember the first release of XP from Windows 3.1, problems were everywhere. Now the XP becomes a stable system only after this 11 years. Forcing people to abandon a stable system where nearly all bugs are fixed seems not a wise choice.
W7 is more difficult than Xp? I doubt that. Also, Xp was not a development from 3.1 but from Windows 95 which I used until finally getting a new computer which came with Windows Me. I'm not sure what the complaint regarding Vista might have been although I apparently was confusing Me with Vista. With W7 64 bit you can have more memory which makes things run better.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Do the statistics come from information that is automatically sent by the computer when Logos is upgraded? I use XP on all my computers and right now I find it frustrating that I should spend time and money to upgrade the system and then reinstall the many programs I have.
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I agree completely and have similar questions.
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Ho-Ngon Yung said:
Forcing people to upgrade to Windows 7
Logos is not saying that people must upgrade to Windows 7. They are saying that XP will no longer move forward. It will be frozen at a stable release. Customer service will still handle XP calls. However, they are saying that people who are not on XP (or below) will reap some of the benefits of .NET 4.0 and 4.5.
Ho-Ngon Yung said:Forcing people to abandon a stable system where nearly all bugs are fixed seems not a wise choice.
Luckily that is not what Logos is proposing. What they are saying is that those who are on versions above XP can reap the benefits of their OS i.e. .NET 4. Logos is allowing people to stay on their current stable system with a stable Logos product. However, it is also saying that those of us on Vista or Win 7 will not be held back with poor performance due to pre .NET 4 versions of .NET. Perhaps because I have a foot in both worlds - XP desktop, Win 7 laptop - I see this as a reasonable decision. Now we will see if syncing changes my mind.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Diane Barnes said:
I have XP and won't be upgrading, whatever it does, it will do. If I can no longer use Logos that will be what happens.
Welcome to the forums. The way that Bob P. described the transition, you should be able to run your Logos as long as your computer still runs.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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You say very few people are using the XP. This may be in the US, but my experience is that many still use the system elsewhere in the world. I think you might be making a premature move here! To what extent will your lack of support effect our use and ongoing use of Logos?
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Bernard Cartledge said:
You say very few people are using the XP. This may be in the US, but my experience is that many still use the system elsewhere in the world. I think you might be making a premature move here! To what extent will your lack of support effect our use and ongoing use of Logos?
Just keep on truckin'. You may have problems with some new resources at some time down the road, but not for a while. Everything you already have you will continue to have.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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If that is the case it means that the items I have on order but not yet delivered are likely not to be able to be delivered.
I am not in a position to upgrade to Windows 7 and will continue to e Windows XP (it being the only Windows
program that I use being a Lotus man myself). Am I correct ?
Sadly, if I am I see not alternative but to cancel the outstanding orders.
Douglas Allen
reverend.doulos@talktalk.net
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A very good idea to move on past XP combatibility. I think XP use is drying up fast, anyway. E ven our elementaryChristian school recently upgraded to Windows 7!
while it is probably true that there are more churches and other frugal folks that are still using XP, even the most frugal will realize that it is time to move on (or simply not upgrade their Logos / Libronix software after October). It's time.0 -
I'd like a little more time to make the switch from XP to Windows 7 or 8. My 6 year old laptop has XP and may not be upgradable to Windows 7 or 8. I do realize that Microsoft is dropping support for XP next year and I will have to do something. For now I'll have to keep running with XP and live with the deficiencies.
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Well said Ho-Ngon
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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