Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012
Comments
-
I'm one of the "few XP users" and I'm not sure I t understand what this means. It sounds like it means that I won't be able to buy anymore books because they won't work since I use XP. and that I'll have to turn "updates off" on my bible library since if it does update after that, I wouldn't be able to use my library anymore. Is that about right?
0 -
Very disappointed. I am an educator and cannot in the midst of a semester take the time to upgrade my system from XP. I wish someone would have had the foresight to announce this more than six weeks ahead of time. Providing such a small window of time does not seem appropriate, and the rationale that it takes time and resources to continue XP does not seem to be an adequate reason to provide such short notice.
0 -
Cindy LaFreniere said:
I'm one of the "few XP users" and I'm not sure I t understand what this means. It sounds like it means that I won't be able to buy anymore books because they won't work since I use XP. and that I'll have to turn "updates off" on my bible library since if it does update after that, I wouldn't be able to use my library anymore. Is that about right?
This will not disable any XP systems, but future releases of books may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and thus will not be usable on Windows XP systems. From Bob Pritchett.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
0 -
M Luper said:
Very disappointed. I am an educator and cannot in the midst of a semester take the time to upgrade my system from XP. I wish someone would have had the foresight to announce this more than six weeks ahead of time. Providing such a small window of time does not seem appropriate, and the rationale that it takes time and resources to continue XP does not seem to be an adequate reason to provide such short notice.
This will not disable any XP systems, but future releases of books may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and thus will not be usable on Windows XP systems.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
0 -
XP is more difficult than W7? When you get a problem of file sharing permission and hanged there, it is; When you get a blue screen, it is. When you got into some problems that you don't know, it is - For XP , it is easy to get someone to tell you what to do, W7, good luck.
1990 -94- windows 3.0 -Windows NT ;1995 -2001 - windows 95
1998 -2000 - windows 98, windows 2000, windows me
2001-2005 - Stable, usable and fast; 2006 -2008 Windows Vista
2009 - Windows 7 and counting ;2012 - Windows 8
This piece of information is taken from Microsoft site. Even Microsoft labels XP as Stable, usable and fast. Besides, you can see there are so many "interim" versions in between, Microsoft in history never delivered a stable system. Is XP stable? No. Only after 11 years of painstaking efforts from the community that it becomes stable.
0 -
There is one more piece of information worth considering
Even Microsoft itself, it claims to drop support for XP in 2012 but will continue to maintain support until 2014. It is because too many people still like XP because it is stable. Read this:
[ From Wikipedia, this is when each version of Windows became (or will become) unsupported by Microsoft:
- Jan 2020: Windows 7
- Apr 2017: Windows Vista
- Apr 2014: Windows XP
- Jul 2010: Windows 2000
- Jul 2006: Windows ME
- Jul 2006: Windows 98
- Jun 2004: Windows NT 4
- Dec 2001: Windows 95
- Dec 2001: Windows NT 3
Tying that to the details in the existing answer:
- VS in 2012 dropped Windows XP despite it being supported until 2014.
- VS in 2010 dropped Windows 2000 which expired soon after.
- VS in 2007 dropped Win98/ME both of which already expired.
- VS in 2005 dropped Win95 and NT4 both of which which had already expired.
So it looks like VS2012 is the first version that will drop support for an OS which itself will still supported for at least another year. Assuming all these dates are correct (I haven't double-checked them; did this mostly for my own curiousity).]
0 -
Ho-Ngon Yung said:
Microsoft in history never delivered a stable system. Is XP stable? No.
Then Get a Mac!
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Guys,
you don't seem to understand. Did you read Bob's detailed explanation one or two pages up? It's not that Logos don't consider XP stable or want to exclude their XP users from something. The point is that day after day people complain about issues and perfromance problems that are (so I understand) related to the .NET middleware that Logos currently uses in XP-compatible version 3.5. Microsoft now brings out .NET 4.5 for Windows 8 and the way they do this forces non-compatibility of it with XP, thus Logos (who - I speculate based on some bits of info we got through the past months - develop the core of L5 using .NET 4.0), in order to silence the complaints of a large portion of the user base and to be able to deliver Logos 5 on time need to make this decision. Moreover, they loose potential customers day by day who see the complaining of users with current OS here in the forums. Unless MS changes their .NET strategy, Logos will be forced to do what they announced.
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
Any surprises where the version of 7 is concerned? 7 starter will be supported?
0 -
Now Alabama ... every day we calmly sip our collective coffee and watch the Logos-Mac train wobble it's way down the track into history. One day they seem to be backing it up. Then forward. Then it sits. On the next track over, the other Mac-trains are zooming by ... toot toot! Toot toot!
But the XP users' reaction is no different than my reaction to the discontinuance of resources for Libronix. On the one hand, 'duh'. How could a software company try to program for so many platforms going back in time. It doesn't seem logical. However, giving 6 months or even a year's headup is a no brainer too; when Bob announced 'no Libronix!!' the headsup was right in the middle of a major sale. Great headsup; he apologized. And now did it again.
At the heart of the problem are a series of electronic book vendors who haven't been quite up front with 'the deal'. Once you join a vendor (take your pick), you're on their train. Love XP ... that's fine ... train just left that station. Not comfortable with the theological direction/behavior of the vendor? That's fine. Suck it up.
You're on the Logos train until you get off. You love the molassas'y performance, the ages-for-good-books-to-appear, and the dissonance with what you read in the Bible ("It's their business!!"). Yes, you're on THEIR train; not yours.
That's why Libronix offers a great place to climb off. Survivable. Great software. Good library. And the Libronix station-master is oh so quiet. Not a single Libronix email.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
George Somsel said:
Also, Xp was not a development from 3.1 but from Windows 95
In the interest of precision, Windows XP was the follow-up to Windows 2000 which was the follow-up to Windows NT (3.1, 3.5, 3.51, then 4.0). That line of operating systems was a ground up written-from-scratch O.S. led by Dave Cutler (previously from DEC) and intended to be the long-term replacement to Windows 3.1 because OS/2 was floundering. Windows XP did introduce the user interface that was part of Windows 95. But Windows 95 (then 98 and then Me) was the successor to Windows 3.1 - essentially graphical interfaces and task-switchers on top of DOS.
Donnie
0 -
Bernard Cartledge said:
You say very few people are using the XP. This may be in the US, but my experience is that many still use the system elsewhere in the world.
Bob didn't say that very few people are using XP. He said that very few of Logos' customers are using XP.
Donnie
0 -
You are too funny D. [:P]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
You sound like me Paul- "I just saying..." And I agree with you. I still have XP on my PC (got Windows 7 on the laptop however) and even though it's slow it's the main one that I use for my logos (it's in my office at home were I do my studying) Now I'll have to buy a newer computer just to keep up. However, I'm also like the guy who, in one of the earlier posts, said that it gave him an excuse to upgrade. I've been wanting to do that for some time now but haven't been able to justify the cost. Maybe this will help convince my wife that its a necessity (there's always hope)
0 -
Maybe people haven't read the entire thread. Or maybe some of the specifics Bob laid out were missed in the length of one of his posts. So I'll quote two important paragraphs:
Bob Pritchett said:We have done an analysis of our user base, and XP users are a small portion. Most importantly, they won't be "turned off", and it's our intention to provide the best support we can for as long as possible. At the moment, I don't know of any imminent changes that would make new books not work on XP, or any reason people couldn't happily run it and their books (and even new books) for many months / years into the future.
We intend to retain the ability to compile and release on the existing XP-compatible platform so that we can even do a "service pack" as necessary to 4.6. We're just giving advance notice that we'll be moving future releases to .NET 4, and thus losing this XP support.
Summarizing:
* XP users won't be "turned off".
* Logos will provide the best support for XP users that it can for as long as possible.
* Bob is not aware of imminent changes which would make new books not work on XP.
* Logos may even release updates for the XP platform if the situation calls for it.Given that, I don't think XP users should be reacting as if the sky is falling.
My $.02 ...
Donnie
0 -
All of my systems are XP as I am am IT Director for a large hospital corporation. Our standard platform is XP service pack 3 and will remain that for the forseeable future. I will not be loading a different version of windows just to run LOGOS, so will there be a mechanism to get content updates without being force fed the software updates?
0 -
alabama24 said:Ho-Ngon Yung said:
Microsoft in history never delivered a stable system. Is XP stable? No.
Then Get a Mac!
I think systems are generally about as stable as the person at the keyboard. Get a MAC? Would you like to pull out all of my teeth with a rust pliers and not so much as an aspirin? I would about as soon do that as get a MAC.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Robert A. White said:
so will there be a mechanism to get content updates without being force fed the software updates?
Yes. You will get resource updates. You will NOT be able to update to newer versions of Logos (unless there is a service release). This process should happen automatically.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
George Somsel said:
Would you like to pull out all of my teeth with a rust pliers and not so much as an aspirin?
Don't tempt me George! [:D] (cue Steve Martin "I want to be a Dentist!")
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Robert A. White said:
All of my systems are XP as I am am IT Director for a large hospital corporation. Our standard platform is XP service pack 3 and will remain that for the forseeable future. I will not be loading a different version of windows just to run LOGOS, so will there be a mechanism to get content updates without being force fed the software updates?
Welcome [:D]
Anticipating Logos 4.6 to have content update similar to Libronix 3.0g, whose last program update shipped in 2009, but new resources were created in the older Libronix format until April 2012. Thankful can still expand my Libronix 3.0g library by purchasing appropriate licenses for older resources, which number in the thousands.
Personally not know what resource format will be used in Logos 5; if the format is the same as Logos 4, new content for Logos 4.6 could be available for longer than Libronix 3.0g, which still has a number of users. Caveat: some new resources may need a new data type in the program for usability, possibly a Logos 4.6 service release (e.g. for the Perseus collections, Logos added a number of data types to Logos 4).
At work am using Windows XP in virtual machines running on Windows 7 on hardware with adequate RAM and disk storage. Virtual machines are much easier to move to new hardware.
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
While everyone complains about XP going away how do you think I feel about not being able to use my first PC
S
Specifications Processor Zilog Z80 Speed 4 MHz RAM 64K ROM 2K Storage 2 - 200K 5.25" floppy drives Expansion None Bus N/A Video Character/terminal based I/O Parallel, Serial OS Options CP/M If we expect them to continue supporting old systems, lets show a love to my old Morrow
0 -
I can't believe that you have those new floppy drives, I feel so inadequate...
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
0 -
DMB said:
That's why Libronix offers a great place to climb off. Survivable. Great software. Good library. And the Libronix station-master is oh so quiet. Not a single Libronix email.
Very interesting analogy, with the trains and such..
I take away two observations:
- Libronix is a great train to ride
- The trains don't belong to us. We are just (voluntarily) along for the ride.
Coincidentally my present avatar photo is of the train station sign for Marumori , circa 1972.
If you are familiar with Japanese train station signs you will notice Marumori is the end of the line. Kinda like WinXP and, some say, Libronix 3. That is how it looked in 1972. Today the scenery is quite different. The railroad tunneled through the mountains to the South and extended the line. Express trains now fly through the Marumori station on their way to Tokyo. Kinda like Logos 6, Window 8, and .Net 5.5 promise to do.........
When a restaurant consistently reaches dining room capacity they have a decision to make. Either expand the dining room and hire the extra staff to support the increase in business, OR raise the menu prices until they have shrunk the clientele to a manageable size. Microsoft has practiced Margaret Sanger's "serial monogamy" from Day 1. Don't worry about long term commitments. As soon as they come out with a new operating system, your days are numbered with the one you they last sold you. Just so long as you understand: it is THEIR train.
addendum: The express trains run through Marumori station. They don't stop there.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
OK so you must do what you must do. I am still running programs on XP that will not run on the newer operating systems. It will cost a whole lot of money to replace them. Some are not replaceable. So much for my portability of Logos on my laptop. Thanks a lot.
Dale Mason
0 -
Joe said:
I still have XP on my PC (got Windows 7 on the laptop however) and even though it's slow it's the main one that I use for my logos (it's in my office at home were I do my studying) Now I'll have to buy a newer computer just to keep up.
I think that a computer capable of running Logos on XP (even slow) will most probably be capable of running Win7.
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
Of all the windows programs I think XP has done the best job. That is why I hate to give it up. I hope what you are changing to does well.
0 -
George Somsel said:
Would you like to pull out all of my teeth with a rust pliers and not so much as an aspirin?
You still have teeth??? [:D]
0 -
Super Tramp said:
Microsoft has practiced Margaret Sanger's "serial monogamy" from Day 1. Don't worry about long term commitments. As soon as they come out with a new operating system, your days are numbered with the one you they last sold you. Just so long as you understand: it is THEIR train.
Denise, I think you're being a bit cynical. Why not adopt a new operating system when it comes out when
- The inevitability of the old system's fading away is apparent
- The new system offers possibilities of performing new and marvelous wonders
Yes, L3 was / is good, but when it comes time to wind the clock on your computer and the spring snaps, you're going to need to make a decision. In the meantime why deprive yourself of new resource offerings or of new features available through the new system. It might be wise to hang back a bit and not be on the bleeding edge, but there comes a point when it's time for a change.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Matthew ... can we safely assume you were in Marumori after 1968? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marumori_Station#History
It's true that time passes. My Logic5 bit the dust with W7/64 but it was a nice piece of software. They didn't yank the user around with each update. But Apple saw a good thing and that was that.
By the way, for goodness sakes don't query 'Ka ku da' in google (given google's data mining). I guess in Thai it's not something you'd want on your google profile.
PS At first I thought the picture was 'Marumo' (recently a popular Japanese TV show for kids).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Jack Caviness said:George Somsel said:
Would you like to pull out all of my teeth with a rust pliers and not so much as an aspirin?
You still have teeth???
Of course. Remember, I'm not as old as you. I'll only be 39 the end of this month. [6]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
I wish you would wait just a little while longer for us that intend to wait till the bugs are worked out of Windows 8 so we can upgrade. I confess, I have not read past this point, so what I say may be addressed later, sorry if it is, I don't have time to read it all.
0 -
George, I'm not cynical. I just enjoy good design. Libronix3 was a consumer's delight since they could manage everything. Logos4 is a publisher's delight since they can now manage everything.
We drive our 2001 Volkswagon Eurovan and people ask 'Is it new?!' We play tackhead banjos with wood from the South Mountain battlefield this month 150 years ago. And run software originally introduced sometime in the 1990s. MS tried to 'nail it' but it still has a large group of enthusiasts.
New can be better. But not always.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
New can be better. But not always.
Yes, I know. I still have a longing for the DOS command line.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
George Somsel said:
Yes, I know. I still have a longing for the DOS command line.
If command line is your thing, you really should check out OS X. The windows and DOS command lines both cower in the shadow of any true POSIX shell.
0 -
mitchellisdumb said:George Somsel said:
Yes, I know. I still have a longing for the DOS command line.
If command line is your thing, you really should check out OS X. The windows and DOS command lines both cower in the shadow of any true POSIX shell.
MAC? Are you out of your ever lovin' gourd?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
George Somsel said:
I still have a longing for the DOS command line.
Why long for it? You can still use the DOS emulation command prompt in Windows 7, and I do it quite regularly. Just run cmd.exe (Start > All Programs > Accessories > Command Prompt)
0 -
Rosie Perera said:George Somsel said:
I still have a longing for the DOS command line.
Why long for it? You can still use the DOS emulation command prompt in Windows 7, and I do it quite regularly. Just run cmd.exe (Start > All Programs > Accessories > Command Prompt)
Yes, I do that on occasion, but I'm speaking of normal operation.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
George Somsel said:
Yes, I do that on occasion, but I'm speaking of normal operation.
You must have been a precocious child, learning all those original languages!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
George Somsel said:Rosie Perera said:George Somsel said:
I still have a longing for the DOS command line.
Why long for it? You can still use the DOS emulation command prompt in Windows 7, and I do it quite regularly. Just run cmd.exe (Start > All Programs > Accessories > Command Prompt)
Yes, I do that on occasion, but I'm speaking of normal operation.
George,
You can always resort to the ‘punch card’ routine…..
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
0 -
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
[:^)] I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with the subject at hand.Dave Hooton said:George Somsel said:Yes, I do that on occasion, but I'm speaking of normal operation.
You must have been a precocious child, learning all those original languages!
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
George Somsel said:
I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with the subject at hand.
DOS - original language - came out when you were 9 ...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Dave Hooton said:George Somsel said:
I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with the subject at hand.
DOS - original language - came out when you were 9 ...
Oh, well I guess that has a certain pertinence then. I learned fortran before DOS.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
I'm not sure what this means for me. I have XP. I also have spent thousands of dollars on books, and I am currently beyond on my bills. Does this essentially mean that I should get a new computer? I am trying to get out of debt. I don't need this right now.
Thank you.
0 -
Larry Craig said:
I'm not sure what this means for me. I have XP. I also have spent thousands of dollars on books, and I am currently beyond on my bills. Does this essentially mean that I should get a new computer? I am trying to get out of debt. I don't need this right now.
Thank you.
Probably, but that doesn't mean immediately. You will have some time when "all things as they were [and] you are there." You will be able to use the books you have and even buy some new ones if you wish (for a time). Perhaps you will then be better able financially to afford a new 'puter. Times are tough at the moment. Look for them to improve after November.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Only if you want to get farther behind in your bills. L4 will still run on XP; you will not get the update to L4 that uses .net 4.0/4.5 (No software that uses .net4.0/4.5 will be able to run on XP - it is a Microsoft thing - not a Logos thing).Larry Craig said:I'm not sure what this means for me. I have XP. I also have spent thousands of dollars on books, and I am currently beyond on my bills. Does this essentially mean that I should get a new computer? I am trying to get out of debt. I don't need this right now.
Thank you.
0 -
If I must I must. Knowing Logos, this must have been thoroughly thought through. XP is very stable and a favorite of mine.
Thanks.
0 -
Donald K Lord said:
I sure wish XP will be kept since it is my most stable PC software, but if I must, to keep LOGOS up and running on it, upgrade I will.
Logos will continue to run on XP without problems and (despite the title of this thread), Logos will continue to support it. What Logos won't do is guarantee that future upgrades will be compatible with the XP OS.
Since it's easy to miss, Bob posted 3 responses on p.10 of this thread that explains this further. Here is the link to the first one: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/53656/394874.aspx#394874
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
0 -
Thank you, Richard.
0 -
Donald K Lord said:
If I must I must. Knowing Logos, this must have been thoroughly thought through. XP is very stable and a favorite of mine.
Thanks.
It's inevitable at some time. I don't use the old DOS machine today and probably won't use W7 in a few years.
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit,
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.Rubaiyat, Omar Khayyam
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0
