Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012
Comments
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Super Tramp said:
I received a nagging message on my desktop saying "This Windows is not genuine."
If your computer was made in China then the warning “This Windows is not genuine” might be true. [I did say 'might' ]
My son in law's computer gives the same warning. He goes to 'Mr Low Price' to get his system updated to Windows 7 and 'Mr Low Price' used one install disk for all of his customers.
From the news: [[they maybe selling more computers then they are buying licenses from Microsoft]]
Company investigators had Chinese nationals purchase 20 laptop and desktop computers from so-called "PC malls" in various Chinese cities. All of the machines had counterfeit copies of Windows XP or Windows 7, Boscovich said. Three computers contained inactive malware, but a fourth had a live piece of malware, "Nitol.A," that awoke when the computer connected to the Internet, he said. [from:]
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/262308/microsoft_finds_new_computers_in_china_preinstalled_with_malware.html0 -
Eric Parten said:
I totally understand.....no further upgrade support after OCT 2012 using XP...I am a XP Logos customer and being cut off from xp support..on bugs found etc.
Based on their track record with Logos 3 I believe that Logos will fix any bugs that Logos 4.x users encounter running on XP what they will not get is new functionality. For Logos 3 users they have already fixed issues caused by changes made by Microsoft to IE so they have a good track record in this area. It is clear from what has already been said that XP users will be able to continue to use everything that is in Logos 4.x after 26th October both software features and resources. What they will not get is new features including the performance improvements from .net 4.5. The grey area is the ability to purchase new resources as it is possible that some future resources may need software features introduced after 26th October and will not therefore be compatible.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham? 'Their track record with Logos 3'?
That's why I'm convinced XP users need to read everything from Logos (and forum assurers) with a significant grain of salt. There's stronger language but it's unnecessary.
From 2009 to late 2011 their total commitment was a registry patch from Microsoft and an abysmal compiling of L3 resources. And this during the period when they were missing significant Logos4 features.
Now, this is fully understandable due to the company's struggling to move forward. Putting resources into the past is a major challenge.
But XP users need to be thinking about survivability since Logos4 isn't exactly the cat's meow for good programming.
Simple demonstration: an XP user calls up Logos support with a problem on Logos4. The harried support person hears they're on XP. Guess what will happen next. Guaranteed.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Simple demonstration: an XP user calls up Logos support with a problem on Logos4. The harried support person hears they're on XP. Guess what will happen next. Guaranteed.
Maybe I am one of those who MJ says have misunderstood Bob's original post but I do believe your implied hang-up brush-off scenario is accurate. That is already the response frequently given Libronix users when calling.
I hope everyone realizes Bob's announcement does not say we will lose any resources or the present level of functionality when support for WinXP ceases. We will only miss out on future features. But you can bet you won't get far with a support call once you mention WinXP. I do hope we can still get help activating third party Libronix purchases. Otherwise IVP, F.A.C.E., WBC and others will be a harder sell.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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DMB said:
That's why I'm convinced XP users need to read everything from Logos (and forum assurers) with a significant grain of salt.
Yea, I have a feeling that unless a Logos XP bug has a better than average chance of starting a thermonuclear war, or the similar, there isn't much chance of ever seeing any fixes after October.
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:DMB said:
That's why I'm convinced XP users need to read everything from Logos (and forum assurers) with a significant grain of salt.
Yea, I have a feeling that unless a Logos XP bug has a better than average chance of starting a thermonuclear war, or the similar, there isn't much chance of ever seeing any fixes after October.
Why continue work on bug fixes? Do you really think there will be anyone working on difficult bug fixes on October 24th? or 20th? or 11th?......
Why bother, if you are not likely to complete the fix by the 26th?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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All of the Windows Versions to date have caused me numerous problems. I've got plenty of ROM/RAM, they just don't run well on my computer, which is why I went back to the tried and proven Windows XP.
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Super Tramp said:
Why continue work on bug fixes? Do you really think there will be anyone working on difficult bug fixes on October 24th? or 20th? or 11th?......
Why bother, if you are not likely to complete the fix by the 26th?
In this thread, Bob did say that Logos could continue fixing substantive issues on the 4.6 code for XP.
Donnie
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DMB said:
From 2009 to late 2011 their total commitment was a registry patch from Microsoft
Whilst no changes have been made to the main executable they have issued some updates to data files, resources and I think there was an updated to one of the addins. A lot of this either happens in the background or reuqires the Logos 3 users to run the update scripts, whilst I don't do it as often as I used to I still follow the process to keep my system updated and have found that there are still Logos 3 updates to download.
I am not aware of any Logos 3 issue on XP, Vista or 7 that Logos has failed to fix. The only issue that I am aware of is that new resources are not being created in the older format supported by Logos 3.
So for me I think they do have a proven track record that should give XP users confidence.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Super Tramp said:
Do you really think there will be anyone working on difficult bug fixes on October 24th?
Yes I think that there will be fixes especially during the first few months as the make sure that the XP version of 4.x is stable. I have no doubt that Bob will have factored this into his plan. As the developers on this thread will know, fixing bugs once a stabilised branch in the development has been created is often easier than fixing the bugs in the current release when the code that needs fixing is also being modified for the next release. I would expect a few SR type updates after the 26th to ensure a stable product.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Donnie Hale said:
In this thread, Bob did say that Logos could continue fixing substantive issues on the 4.6 code for XP
Just what is Bob's definition of "substantive issues on the 4.6 code for XP?" I am betting it will only include issues that are also affecting Vista & later systems. When we consider this reasoning given for abandoning WinXP support:
~highlighting mine.Bob Pritchett said:Microsoft is upgrading the .NET 4 platform to .NET 4.5, which is an "in-place" install replacing .NET 4 (which we're planning to move to for many reasons, including performance and bug fixes).
Why announce you are abandoning support and then commit to fix the bugs if your purpose for the switch is to avoid having to fix a bunch of buggy software? According to Graham, Libronix on XP has had all it's issues fixed. [;)]
The REAL concern I have is this:
Bob Pritchett said:but future releases of books may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and thus will not be usable on Windows XP systems. ~highlighting mine.
I read that to say I can not necessarily count on any future resources being able to run on an XP machine. We are talking about Community Pricing, Pre-Pubs and ALL resources on the website losing compatibility. This is not an argument over Libronix 3 vs Logos 4. This is about losing Logos 4 functionality on all your XP machines.
(hmmm, I've got $5000 of Pre-Pubs and Community Pricing on order that will not run in Logos 4 on my XP machines??)Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:Paul Golder said:DMB said:
That's why I'm convinced XP users need to read everything from Logos (and forum assurers) with a significant grain of salt.
Yea, I have a feeling that unless a Logos XP bug has a better than average chance of starting a thermonuclear war, or the similar, there isn't much chance of ever seeing any fixes after October.
Why continue work on bug fixes? Do you really think there will be anyone working on difficult bug fixes on October 24th? or 20th? or 11th?......
Why bother, if you are not likely to complete the fix by the 26th?
That's what I was trying to say. Unless Logos XP becomes totally unusable (and there is a giant outcry), there is no chance of any fixes.
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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All of the Windows Versions to date have caused me numerous problems. I've got plenty of ROM/RAM, they just don't run well on my computer, which is why I went back to the tried and proven Windows XP.
You're not holding your mouth right. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Super Tramp said:
According to Graham, Libronix on XP has had all it's issues fixed.
That's all the ones that I know of on XP, Vista and 7 [H]
Super Tramp said:Bob Pritchett said:but future releases of books may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and thus will not be usable on Windows XP systems.
I read that to say I can not necessarily count on any future resources being able to rum on an XP machine.
I agree with that interpretation and it made me wonder what new datatypes/functionality we can expect in the Logos 4.x or more likely Logos 5!
It's also worth remembering that Logos continued to support the Logos 3 resource format for well over 2 years after the release of Logos 4.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:
It's also worth remembering that Logos continued to support the Logos 3 resource format for well over 2 years after the release of Logos 4.
That is a good point worth rememberiing. But in this case Logos will not have a choice. I am sure if Bob could, he would. Problem is, he can't.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I guess I completely missed all the Libronix bug fixes. Libronix3g was issued BEFORE Logos4. And today Libronix3g is the last update. Now, true, you can ask Libronix to download any software updates and it will dutifully check. As for the book updates, that IS true ... the problem was the new buggy ones that they issued and didn't bother to fix at the end of L3 support.
But what 'bugs' me about this whole conversation is that I bought a new netbook just weeks before they released Logos4 with a minimum recommend PC far exceeding my new PC. So all this 'don't worry, be happy' is falling on (my) deaf ears.
And yes, I ended up cancelling my pre-pubs and CPs earlier this year but actually that's been a blessing. For whatever reason, Logos new releases are major yawners (for me). Most of their library expansion these days are 1800s re-treads and collection break-ups that are badly over-priced.
Libronix was their last big hurrah with the likes of the DSS Biblical and the Gottingen. They barely could get Leiden out and it's still iffy-ish. The major new work in the greek area is not likely on their radar.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Graham Owen said:
It's also worth remembering that Logos continued to support the Logos 3 resource format for well over 2 years after the release of Logos 4.
Not only that, it still continues to work. I'm getting a it tired of all of those running around saying "Boo hoo, boo hoo" after they've been reassured many times that their program will still work.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Super Tramp said:Graham Owen said:
It's also worth remembering that Logos continued to support the Logos 3 resource format for well over 2 years after the release of Logos 4.
That is a good point worth rememberiing. But in this case Logos will not have a choice. I am sure if Bob could, he would. Problem is, he can't.
I think that depends on two factors:
- What kind of changes/additions they make to the resource format
- How they implement those changes
If, for example, they introduce a new/extended format with a new extension i.e. .logos5 then they could compile in 2 formats for a period as they did for the older Logos 3 format. They may already be able to handle this within the current format through an internal version number.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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George Somsel said:
Not only that, it still continues to work. I'm getting a it tired of all of those running around saying "Boo hoo, boo hoo" after they've been reassured many times that their program will still work.
Yes, George, my Libronix 3g still does what it always did. This is not a problem for those who are done building their libraries. But I am eagerly looking forward to all the College Press (Stone-Campbell) material in the pipeline. Bob virtually guarantees these will not work in my Libronix or "Logos 4 on XP" library. Since I do run Windows 7 I will have them available there. But what about the 32 people who can't upgrade? [6]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Graham Owen said:
If, for example, they introduce a new/extended format with a new extension i.e. .logos5 then they could compile in 2 formats for a period as they did for the older Logos 3 format. They may already be able to handle this within the current format through an internal version number.
If that were feasible why swat the hornet's nest with the abandonment declaration?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
But what about the 32 people who can't upgrade?
The Logos 32 bits? Shall we pass the hat? [A]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Super Tramp said:
Bob virtually guarantees these will not work in my Libronix or "Logos 4 on XP" library.
From Bob Pritchett, page 10 of this thread: "At the moment, I don't know of any imminent changes that would make new
books not work on XP, or any reason people couldn't happily run it and
their books (and even new books) for many months / years into the
future."Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
From Bob Pritchett, page 10 of this thread: "At the moment, I don't know of any imminent changes that would make new
books not work on XP, or any reason people couldn't happily run it and
their books (and even new books) for many months / years into the
future."So unless we dismiss Bob's first post in starting this thread as an unfortunate debacle and swatting of the hornets' nest, we are left to figure out whether his first post or page 10 post is the correct one. Bob said both. That is called "plausible deniability" in legalese. Which post is incorrect. Of necessity one has to be since they are in diametric opposition.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:Graham Owen said:
They may already be able to handle this within the current format through an internal version number.
If that were feasible why swat the hornet's nest with the abandonment declaration?
Because they won't want to commit to having a dual format indefinitely and at least this way when the change has an impact no one can say they were not warned. Remember the fuss when they announced the end of support for Logos 3 format resources?
Back in 1995, when I bought my first Logos product I did so because they guaranteed that I would be able to access any books I bought in future versions of the program without incurring an additional cost. They have kept that promise for 17 years and that includes a bunch of stuff that I purchased from other companies like E4 and Thomas Nelson.
What they did not promise was that everything they ever published would work on the hardware and software I owned back in 1995.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Super Tramp said:
So unless we dismiss Bob's first post in starting this thread as an unfortunate debacle and swatting of the hornets' nest, we are left to figure out whether his first post or page 10 post is the correct one. Bob said both. That is called "plausible deniability" in legalese. Which post is incorrect. Of necessity one has to be since they are in diametric opposition.
I hate to say this, but you seem bent on taking any statement from Logos on this question with the worst possible interpretation. The statements are not in diametric opposition. From page 1: "but future releases of books may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos". The word "may" is very prominent in that clause. It aligns completely with the page 10 quote from Bob I posted previously. As has been pointed out in a few messages in this thread, the thread's title as well as some of the specifics in the communication from Logos could have been worded and articulate much more clearly.
I'm going out on a limb here, as we are talking about a business. But I think that, to the individual Christian, 1 Cor 13:7 applies: "Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." And we should bear and believe all things up to 70 x 7 times.
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
I hate to say this, but you seem bent on taking any statement from Logos on this question with the worst possible interpretation.
We are also told to be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves (Matthew 10:16). Another: A wise man sees danger and protects himself (Proverbs 22:3.)
Your observation may be accurate but it admits my "worst possible interpretation" is still a valid and possible interpretation. Bob made no promises in this thread that future resources will run under Logos on XP. No promises. If you choose to sugar-coat his non-promise and suffer 70x7 when you are wrong, that is certainly your choice to make.
I am ready and willing to upgrade to a new laptop and .NET 4.5 to keep building my Logos library. Just don't count on WinXP running future Logos releases and resources. Bob said so.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Seeing that Bob started this thread, and his employees read these threads, certainly one that has as many comments and views, why not wait and see what will happen. That is only about 40 days away. You will still be able to use what you have, and those who will buy more books, the new ones will work continue to be compatible with Logos 4 on XP for some time.
Logos does know how many users are using XP.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Just wondering if this thread will die before Logos development for the XP environment does.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Just wondering if this thread will die before Logos development for the XP environment does.
It begins to look as though this thread could go on forever (perhaps we can finish the discussion at the resurrection).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
It begins to look as though this thread could go on forever (perhaps we can finish the discussion at the resurrection).
What if we do not all come up in the same resurrection? [:)]
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden Williams said:
What if we do not all come up in the same resurrection?
I almost went there. If I had, it would have been: The one-and-only post-millennial resurrection. Right?
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:Lynden Williams said:
What if we do not all come up in the same resurrection?
I almost went there. If I had, it would have been: The one-and-only post-millennial resurrection. Right?
Donnie
But the "millenium" is now.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
But the "millenium" is now.
Exactly. Thus the resurrection must be postmillennial, or at least definitively *not* premillennial. I suppose we could start a new eschatological view: midmillennialism.
Donnie
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I hope Bob at logos would read this
It's a shame that logos causes this type was issue, a lot of these issues should have been discussed more with your technical team, and your sales team way in advanced
of developing your products, you have caused lots of customers concerns ,
If I was working for your company I would be ashamed of what I have read and seen how people have reacted to each other
The way you release information regarding your product does not seem very professional hence the chaos and reaction of customers on your forum
It is very hard to get a good reputation it is a very easy to create a situation where reputation starts to fade
There are so many companies that are offering biblical resources nobody can afford bad repetition when it comes to how they treat and release information about products to their customers,
Michael Parry-Thomas
I used speech technology to help me overcome my dyslexia sorry for any wrong pronounced words and punctuation0 -
Michael Parry -Thomas said:
I hope Bob at logos would read this
It's a shame that logos causes this type was issue, a lot of these issues should have been discussed more with your technical team, and your sales team way in advanced
of developing your products, you have caused lots of customers concerns ,I tried to be as clear as possible. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I do believe, though, that most of the chaos and confusion here comes from "overthinking" the situation instead of just taking the words as they are.
We couldn't announce this much earlier because we didn't know the situation with the final .NET 4.5 release until just recently. I believe that I posted this "Advance Notice" to the forums the very day I heard from our development lead that we had this problem. I'm pretty certain my understanding of why we needed to drop XP and the announcement here were separated by only a couple hours. I don't know how I could have done it faster, and if I'd spent a lot of time working the message with our team, then people would be upset that the message was late.
Moreover, my post announced it as a PLAN and asked for feedback (which you have all provided in abundance -- thanks!).
Again, I'm sorry it wasn't clearer. I really did try to make it clear, but since there are severe consequences for making statements about the future that turn out to be wrong, I was trying to be very careful to reassure while not promising something that I couldn't deliver in the future for reasons I can't predict.
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Super Tramp said:
I read that to say I can not necessarily count on any future resources being able to run on an XP machine.
I've already clearly said that I can't see any reason resources won't be compatible long into the future. I would love to say "for x years!" but I am just not going to make promises about the future, because, being the future, it's sometimes different than I expect. :-)
I can say, though, that over the years our book format has stabilized, and each year we need to create fewer and fewer new data types -- we've already encountered almost everyone in books in our field. So I don't see a need for a dramatic new improvement to the book format that we can't back-port or make easily compatible with the existing Logos 4.6 generation of code.
We do not have any "Logos 3 to Logos 4" type major re-architecture imminent. While we do put out "major releases", we've only "gone back to ground zero" and reinvented the book format in 1995, 2001, and 2009. Some simple math should lead us all to conclude that it's not likely that we'll "break" books for Logos 4 in less than 3 years, at which point XP will be 13 years old, and even the most die-hard XP user will likely have upgraded to Windows 9 -- or a Mac. :-)
(Of course there may be this or that book or feature that requires a lot of new code for a very specific reason -- I can't imagine what, but it happens -- something radical, like our 3D stereograph media resources -- that we won't back-port. But I don't think that's the case with anything presently on pre-pub or community pricing, with the "possible" (possible, possible, can't say for sure!) exception of the long-awaited Hebrew pronunciation add-in, which has its own tragic history I won't recount here.)
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Bob Pritchett said:
but I am just not going to make promises about the future, because, being the future, it's sometimes different than I expect. :-)
OUCH! You really got me there. [;)] OK Bob, I capitulate. The hornet spray is on the top shelf, in the pantry.
........I was hoping you had a good prophet on staff that knew what is coming.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Bob Pritchett said:
I would love to say "for x years!" but I am just not going to make promises about the future
Hey Bob! I went out and upgraded my laptop today. It is good for the next X years of Logos and Windows. Take a look:
It has GPS and is solar powered!Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Another one bites the dust.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57513563-92/adobe-next-photoshop-wont-support-windows-xp/
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My machine is 7 years old and still runs Great on Windows XP. I am not very happy that I am going to have to purchase a new operating unit to replace the old just to be able to get new updates for the software I purchased from Logos.
I understand it is purely a business transaction but still not happy. I do believe for those of us that have to upgrade a business arrangement should be made with Logos and there paid customers and microsoft to update for a cheaper arranged price. This will take some of the sting out of the whole deal of updating software that still works.
Respectfully, Rickey Lamphere
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Rickey Lamphere said:
My machine is 7 years old and still runs Great on Windows XP. I am not very happy that I am going to have to purchase a new operating unit to replace the old just to be able to get new updates for the software I purchased from Logos.
I understand it is purely a business transaction but still not happy. I do believe for those of us that have to upgrade a business arrangement should be made with Logos and there paid customers and microsoft to update for a cheaper arranged price. This will take some of the sting out of the whole deal of updating software that still works.
Respectfully, Rickey Lamphere
I could almost sympathize w/your request, buts let's be realistic:
Computers are a convenience not a neccessity; So is any and all software that accompanies them, so much so that Logos Bible Software is a user purchased item that is run and used on one of these conveniences that we have willingly purchased.
Sorry this seems so blunt............
R4m
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
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Microsoft Developer Network (MSDN) has .NET Framework 4.5 System Requirements => http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8z6watww.aspx that includes three versions of desktop Windows systems: Windows 8, Windows 7, and Vista SP2 along with two servers: 2008 and 2012.
Also noticed .NET Framework 4.5 includes support for 32 and 64 bit versions. Wonder about Logos becoming a 64 bit application ?
By the way, Dell Outlet now has third generation i5 and i7 notebooks with 15" and 17" screens running Windows 7:
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Rickey Lamphere said:
My machine is 7 years old and still runs Great on Windows XP. I am not very happy that I am going to have to purchase a new operating unit to replace the old just to be able to get new updates for the software I purchased from Logos.
I understand it is purely a business transaction but still not happy. I do believe for those of us that have to upgrade a business arrangement should be made with Logos and there paid customers and microsoft to update for a cheaper arranged price. This will take some of the sting out of the whole deal of updating software that still works.
Respectfully, Rickey Lamphere
First of all, you didn't buy the software; you bought the resources that the sofware displays. Then, I suggest that you read Bob's posts. You don't absolutely need to purchase a new unit to continue using your resources or even to purchase new resources.
Frankly, I'm getting tired of all of the complaints of this type made by those who apparently haven't read and understood what has been stated. You would think the sky is falling so, Chicken Little, go read Bob's posts on page 1 and page 10 of this thread. There is also a blog post you might look at. It's no wonder we get so many strange interpretations of scripture when so many can't even understand what is being said here. I can only imagine what a headache this all is for Bob.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Frankly, I'm getting tired of all of the complaints of this type made by those who apparently haven't read and understood what has been stated. You would think the sky is falling so, Chicken Little, go read Bob's posts on page 1 and page 10 of this thread. There is also a blog post you might look at. It's no wonder we get so many strange interpretations of scripture when so many can't even understand what is being said here.
[:D]
George, you made me literally laughing out loud! I'm still smiling from one ear to the next. Thank you!
Have joy in the Lord!
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This does not make me happy. Upgrading to Win 7 from WP will cost an extreme amount of money as I'll have to upgrade several other high-end programs like Dreamweaver 8 and Photoshop CS!
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George Somsel said:
It's no wonder we get so many strange interpretations of scripture when so many can't even understand what is being said here.
George, It always scares me when I must agree with you [8-|] I was thinking the same thing [^o)]
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Jack Caviness said:George Somsel said:
It's no wonder we get so many strange interpretations of scripture when so many can't even understand what is being said here.
George, It always scares me when I must agree with you
I was thinking the same thing 
Ditto +2
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Ernst Sibberson said:
Upgrading to Win 7 from WP will cost an extreme amount of money
Luckily you don't have to upgrade so you can spend that extreme amount of money on Logos resources - or give it to me to spend as soon as Logos implements gift cards.[:D] (No, I don't know if Logos is going to implement gift card - you can always use PayPal instead).
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ernst Sibberson said:
Upgrading to Win 7 from WP will cost an extreme amount of money as I'll have to upgrade several other high-end programs like Dreamweaver 8 and Photoshop CS!
If you look a few posts above yours you will find a link stating that Photoshop will also stop supporting XP.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Look? ...You mean read the thread before replying? ...Preposterous !!!!fgh said:If you look a few posts above yours you will find a link stating that Photoshop will also stop supporting XP.
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