NIV 84 for Proclaim
Is there any way to purchase NIV 1984 version for proclaim software? Our church uses NIV 1984 for everything and it would be nice to project the same version as the bibles we have in the pews.
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Laura - Welcome to the forums!
Unfortunately, the translators and publisher of the NIV don't want the NIV84 to be sold anymore, so Logos is prohibited from doing so.
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ahh... I was afraid of that, thanks for the confirmation, I understand the desire to use the updated version but it's kind of inconvenient in some ways. Thanks for the quick answer!
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David Taylor Jr said:
It is inconvenient in a lot of ways....
It is indeed - mostly because a lot have churches have a lot of investment in NIV pew bibles.
However as these are not going to be reprinted (as I understand it) eventually replacements will have to either be the updated version or a different translation.
Those buying bibles for home use soon will not be able to purchase the 1984 so there will be a disconnect between the presentation and the versions in hand one way or the other pretty soon.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mike Binks said:
eventually replacements will have to either be the updated version or a different translation.
Eventually but I don't hear of churches replacing their pew bibles that often. At least not that often. I can't remember being in a church where it has happened.
That said there is always going to be some disconnect when people bring their own bibles with their prefered translation. But for the newcomer / visitor who might not have a bible and not be familiar with the scriptures, having what's on the screen match what their reading in the pew is a desirable outcome. Unfortunately this is out of Logos hands.
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Andrew Mckenzie said:Mike Binks said:
eventually replacements will have to either be the updated version or a different translation.
Eventually but I don't hear of churches replacing their pew bibles that often. At least not that often. I can't remember being in a church where it has happened.
That said there is always going to be some disconnect when people bring their own bibles with their prefered translation. But for the newcomer / visitor who might not have a bible and not be familiar with the scriptures, having what's on the screen match what their reading in the pew is a desirable outcome. Unfortunately this is out of Logos hands.
You are right Andrew, but we are still in the early days of this transition (only about a year from the withdrawal of the 1984 version).
While we are planning ahead it must be with the knowledge that a new translation will eventually be required as pew bibles wear out and members find that they have to replace their existing copies. It would be better for a church's members if they had some idea either of the what the eventual change will be to or when the church intends to make that decision.tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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alabama24 said:
Laura - Welcome to the forums!
Unfortunately, the translators and publisher of the NIV don't want the NIV84 to be sold anymore, so Logos is prohibited from doing so.
Doing away with the NIV 1984 - the most widely accepted translation since KJV (more accepted than KJV at this stage in its history) has to be the smartest marketing decision since "New Coke". The publisher has really blown it. It is arrogance at its height to believe that a publisher can just tell people that they have to change their Bible preference, and they will do so. Personally, if I change it surely will not be to a different NIV version.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Michael Childs said:
Doing away with the NIV 1984 - the most widely accepted translation since KJV (more accepted than KJV at this stage in its history) has to be the smartest marketing decision since "New Coke". The publisher has really blown it. It is arrogance at its height to believe that a publisher can just tell people that they have to change their Bible preference, and they will do so. Personally, if I change it surely will not be to a different NIV version.
I concur! I don't have the NIV 84 on Logos, so I either use the ESV or my paper version of the NIV. Zondervan has lost my business.
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Well, our pastor probably thought Zondervan's policy was the best thing that happened since the '70' rolled out the new (now old) greek OT. He loves the ESV and keeps sneaking ESV verses on to the presentation screen. Being the patient sort, it's just a matter of time until everyone wonders why the NIV's are still in the pews.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Michael said:
Zondervan has lost my business.
To be fair: the decision to no longer allow sales of the NIV84 is not a Zondervan decision; it's a decision of Biblica, who holds the copyrights and contracts with publishers, including Zondervan (which has the exclusive license in North America).
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
To be fair: the decision to no longer allow sales of the NIV84 is not a Zondervan decision; it's a decision of Biblica, who holds the copyrights and contracts with publishers, including Zondervan (which has the exclusive license in North America).
And to be fair - if Biblica reckon that they have produced a translation that provides a meaning closer to the original then they are right to withdraw what they now consider to be a substandard product.
(Though how they reckon that the odd addition of a 'u' her and there makes things mean the same in English as it does in American is beyond me)
"6 But when they did not find them, they drugj Jason and some other believersk before the city officials," anyone?
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Michael said:
True, but if Zondervan wanted to push the issue, I'm sure that they could.
Do you have inside information that would corroborate your suspicion? I would personally be surprised if this assumption were true.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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1984 or 2011, Zondervan (News Corp) does not care. There is only one thing that matters:
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
1984 or 2011, Zondervan (News Corp) does not care. There is only one thing that matters:
Paul, since you appear to be replying to my post, would I be correct in observing that the graphic here, showing the NIV as a top seller, affirms my position that Zondervan would not likely pull the plug on their best selling Bible?
If, on the other hand, you intend to show that these facts demonstrate that Zondervan would be eager to replace their best selling Bible with a new version that is likely to be controversial, if not rejected by many in the way the TNIV was, I would need help understanding how you would make such an argument. Help me understand that argument, please.
If you were not replying to my post, then I'm altogether unclear about the point you are trying to make here.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Paul, since you appear to be replying to my post, would I be correct in observing that the graphic here, showing the NIV as a top seller, affirms my position that Zondervan would not likely pull the plug on their best selling Bible?
To yours Richard (agreeing with you), and to others that may think that there is any possibility that the 1984 may be re-released. There is no financial benefit for Zondervan.
It's really a hopeless cause unless the Committee on Bible Translation relents.
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Richard DeRuiter said:Michael said:
True, but if Zondervan wanted to push the issue, I'm sure that they could.
Do you have inside information that would corroborate your suspicion? I would personally be surprised if this assumption were true.
I am privvy to no inside information, but from a business perspective, anytime that you are and exclusive distributor you have the ability to exert pressure.
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Michael said:
I am privvy to no inside information, but from a business perspective, anytime that you are and exclusive distributor you have the ability to exert pressure.
True. But without knowledge that Zondervan hasn't done this, it's presumptuous to suggest they haven't.
NOTE: I'm no fan boy of Zondervan. I am a fan boy of treating people (and the corporations they run) fairly.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:Michael said:
I am privvy to no inside information, but from a business perspective, anytime that you are and exclusive distributor you have the ability to exert pressure.
True. But without knowledge that Zondervan hasn't done this, it's presumptuous to suggest they haven't.
NOTE: I'm no fan boy of Zondervan. I am a fan boy of treating people (and the corporations they run) fairly.
And I don't believe that i've treated them unfairly. They no longer supply a product that I want, therefore I will procure a similar product from another vendor. if anything, I think Zondervan and/or biblica have treated their customers unfairly. Agree or not with my position, the fact remains that I will not, unless absolutely necessary buy Zondervan products.
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Michael said:
They no longer supply a product that I want, therefore I will procure a similar product from another vendor. if anything, I think Zondervan and/or biblica have treated their customers unfairly.
The point I am making is that Biblica is making the decision, not Zondervan. I would agree that Zondervan does not have a stellar reputation with their customers, particularly in the way they handled the transition of Pradis to Logos. But in this case, I don't blame them. The blame goes to Biblica, which holds the copyright to the NIV84 and refuses to allow it to be licensed for distribution by anyone. That being the case, Zondervan would be breaking the law by selling the NIV84. If that's unfair of Zondervan, please explain.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:Michael said:
They no longer supply a product that I want, therefore I will procure a similar product from another vendor. if anything, I think Zondervan and/or biblica have treated their customers unfairly.
The point I am making is that Biblica is making the decision, not Zondervan. I would agree that Zondervan does not have a stellar reputation with their customers, particularly in the way they handled the transition of Pradis to Logos. But in this case, I don't blame them. The blame goes to Biblica, which holds the copyright to the NIV84 and refuses to allow it to be licensed for distribution by anyone. That being the case, Zondervan would be breaking the law by selling the NIV84. If that's unfair of Zondervan, please explain.
Richard, I'm really not sure what you're looking for from me, other than to badger me. I've expressed that I think as the exclusive distributor of the NIV in North America, Zondervan can exert pressure on Biblica if they so desire. Whether the decision is totally in the hands of Biblica doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is that there is a product that I want, that they won't sell to me. Michael Child's example of New Coke fits this situation perfectly. I switched to Pepsi back then and rarely if ever drink Coke now. In this case, Zondervan/Biblica are attmpting to force a product on me that I don't want and refuse to buy. I will go to a competitor and buy their product, as I stated in my OP. Since this NIV debacle started, I've bought an ESV and an NET. I think I like the ESV better and will probably make it my new "Pepsi". Bottom line is, I'm not asking Zondervan to break the law, I want a product they won't supply. Since they won't supply it, I'll take my business elsewhere.
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Michael said:
Richard, I'm really not sure what you're looking for from me, other than to badger me.
No, I'm really not trying to badger you. I am challenging your unsupported assumption that Zondervan has not put pressure on Biblica to change their decision to withhold the NIV84, and the resulting distaste you have for Zondervan because of this unsupported assumption. As I've tried to point that out, you have seemed to miss my point, or possibly, you just don't care who's to blame, which you seem to assert here:
Michael said:Whether the decision is totally in the hands of Biblica doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is that there is a product that I want, they they won't sell to me.
If all you're saying is that you don't want the NIV11, would buy the NIV84 if available, but since it isn't you are shopping for a new version, that's fine. If you're saying that you will boycott Zondervan so that they pressure Biblica until Biblica relents, that's fine. If you're saying that you're boycotting Zondervan because they are to blame, that I would challenge, though not anymore on this thread.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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