Help please from the expert Logos users

Hello, as the help still has a long way to go, and there's nothing in the videos that I can find that helps me with this, I would appreciate some guidance from the Logos 3 & 4 pro users as to how one would/should tackle questions such as these:

Are the Apostles part of Old Testament Biblical prophecy (i.e. God used the Apostles in a powerful way to amplify and explicate the ministry of Jesus; was there any prophecy concerning them at all)?
What are the exact prophecies in the Old Testament concerning Jesus, and how were they fulfilled?
Do the Epistles or Acts reveal any truths that are not revealed in the ministry of Jesus as given to us in the four Gospels and the Old Testament?

Ultimately, what I'm looking for is to discover, through these example questions, answers to the following questions about the software itself:

Is Logos 3 or Logos 4 an effective tool for answering such questions as these (I know they can't be answered *directly* but with the capabilities and resources available, it seems one should be able to make at the very least, some excellent headway rather quickly if one knows how to utilize the software)?
- If yes, which is better at this point?
If anyone feels like tackling one of the questions, I'd appreciate an overview of the steps used and a reasoning behind the choices made.
I hope my questions are not offensive to anyone. These are questions that popped up in my mind whilst doing my Bible study yesterday and I realized that I had no idea how I would proceed in order to obtain answers to them from Logos 4, hence, this post.

I'm sort of in limbo, because I had just purchased Libronix 3 ten days prior to Logos 4 being released. This means that if I were to say that my understanding of Libronix 3 is weak, I would be overstating my understanding. I find the idiosyncracies of Logos 4 and the interminable slow downs irritating, but, if its possible to answer (or at least get in the ballpark) questions such as those I posed with Logos 4, I can put up with the problems while Logos works the bugs out of the product. If Logos 3 *can* deal with such questions as these, but Logos 4 is not yet 'game ready,' I'll really be in pickle because this will mean that I will have to expend considerable time and effort learning Logos 3, only to have to turn around in the near future (i.e. when Logos 4 is ready) and abandon what I've learned for an apparently new paradigm. But, if Logos 3 can do it, then to make the most of my Bible study time, then I'll learn what is necessary. If neither is up to the task, then it's a moot point.

Ultimately, I feel somewhat frustrated because I know that there's a tremendous collection of resources available and I am at a loss as to how to properly mine those resources. I liken it to Mathematica in a way. Mathematica is one of the great software engineering accomplishments. If it didn't have an incredible help system and literally 100 or more books written (of which I own 15) on how to leverage its power, I'd be pretty much in the dark with it. As it is, there's pretty much no mathematical problem that is within my ken that I have not been able to investigate using it.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Matt

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Bob

As a somewhat new user of LOGOS i can put in a few thoughts. The questions you ask are pretty open ended without easy machine-determinable answers. There are some things that you need to use the brain for. The big strength of LOGOS is in the library where you can search what other people have thought and found.

Thus, for the apostles question I might start with a passage guide on Matt 26:31 (in which Jesus quotes Zech 13:7) and follow the commentaries and references in your passage guide report. Do passage guide reports on the verses referenced and quoted. There are other passages where the text says something was done to fulfill a prophecy, a search for fulfill might give you more ideas.

Hopefully most of your questions will come from, or you will have an idea of, a verse that leads into them. If you don't have a verse then search for words that might deal with your question. (how you get from apostles to sheep is another problem best solved by the human mind guided by the Spirit.) .

Blessings in your search and do not forget that it is most important to pray for wisdom.

EDIT PS. I left unsaid what I think of 3 vs 4 as suitable for such study. Frankly, either one is fantastic. At your stage I would not spend more time learning 3 since you want to shift to 4 as soon as you can, it is ready. Depending on your machine it can take a long time to index a file (mine took 8 hours!!!!!). Let it finish indexing before you try to use it.

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44178#Comment_44178

Hi Robert,

The questions you ask are pretty open ended without easy machine-determinable answers. There are some things that you need to use the brain for

Well, that's my point and why I stated that I didn't expect Logos software to be able to answer my questions directly. If Logos brings together 1,000 resources, what is the best way in order to achieve an answer to questions? The answer lies in the interface and what functionality to mine the depths of those resource is exposed to the end user.

I'll give another example:

The OED is comprised of 20 volumes along with supplemental volumes which come out from time to time. I believe the total number of volumes is ~24 now. In electronic form, it is a treasure trove of information for a linguaphile because, through the interface, one can answer questions that would have taken years or essentially been impossible by pawing through the texts themselves. One way in which I use it all the time is if there's a word about which I'm not quite sure of the pronunciation, I can quickly do a wildcarded phonetics search which gives me a list of words that contain the part that I'm having trouble pronouncing. There is a book written about how the dictionary is structured (its a diachronic dictionary, hence it's a bit different from what most people are used to) and how best to utlize the interface provided to access the books themselves. If Oxford had simply collected the resources without an interface to plumb the depths, and simply said "Here you go!" that would have essentially been useless for research purposes.

I guess ultimately that's why I asked for expert Logos user's opinions on this topic, because only they know the answer to what I am asking.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Matt

Kevin Becker

Are the Apostles part of Old Testament Biblical prophecy (i.e. God used the Apostles in a powerful way to amplify and explicate the ministry of Jesus; was there any prophecy concerning them at all)?

What are the exact prophecies in the Old Testament concerning Jesus, and how were they fulfilled?

Do the Epistles or Acts reveal any truths that are not revealed in the ministry of Jesus as given to us in the four Gospels and the Old Testament?

Matt,

I'll take a few stabs at how I would start answering these questions. Disclaimer: I haven't tested any of these searches on my library.

You might start by reading the articles in Bible Dictionaries/Encyclopedias about the apostles, these will give you background and possibly even start to answer your question. Next I would perform library searches with terms like "Apostles AND prophecy" "Peter AND Prophecy." To do this effectively you might want to divide your library into collections and just search those collections to make more manageable chucks of search results to wade through. For this topic monographs on prophecy might have a chapter devoted to this type of question.

I also wouldn't be shy about doing a Google search. If some results come up then you could go back to Logos with passage guides on the prophetic passages someone has applied to an apostle to see if that connection is valid.
This is probably the easiest to solve, many prophecy books have a chapter with this type of information search "Jesus AND fulfilled prophecy." I'd also search the gospels for fulfillment language "to fulfill" "it was written" to see what the Gospel writers themselves identified as prophecies about Jesus. I know Matthew has the biggest emphasis on this topic. Along this line looking to your library's list of Old Testament quotes and allusions will reveal many of these connections.
This is probably the most open-ended of your questions. Honestly, I would say the basic answer is "Yes," and the only way to understand where and how is just to study the New Testament. Biblical Theologies are strong in this regard to highlight the individual focuses of different parts of scripture. In more critical scholarship these differences in focus might be highlighted as contradictions within scripture. While I don't agree with that diagnosis, searching for "contradictions" in scripture might highlight verses that need to be studied in more depth.

In my opinion it's a good idea, for any general question, to start broad with Encyclopedias and overviews to identify terminology and passages appropriate to study for the topic and then go to those passages and work inductively. I hope this gives you some ideas on how to use your digital library.

Dave Hooton

Is Logos 3 or Logos 4 an effective tool for answering such questions as these (I know they can't be answered *directly* but with the capabilities and resources available, it seems one should be able to make at the very least, some excellent headway rather quickly if one knows how to utilize the software)?
If yes, which is better at this point?

Let me answer this way:-

Entire Library Searches

Apostles AND prophecy --> AND operator in caps for L4

Jesus AND "fulfilled prophecy" ---> using a phrase

Jesus AND "the epistles" --> revealed some very pertinent information in my Library (inspired guess)

L4 wins hands down on basis of speed for a full library search and accuracy of phrase searches.

Document Title or Subject (may suggest direct answers)

My L4 has more resources with "Jesus" in the title or subject than L3.

My L4 has more resources with "Apostle", "Disciple" or "Prophecy" in the title/subject.

Getting to know this is a fairly simple library function, but I give L4 the edge AND the expanded Scholar's library for v4 gave it the extra docs.

Harmonies

A Tool "Parallel Passages and Harmonies" in L3

Resources with document type "Bible Harmony" in L4

I give the edge to L4 because many L3 tools are resources and more easily/consistently located.

Wyn Laidig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/44454#Comment_44454

Matt,

I would HIGHLY recommend you sign for a Camp Logos training seminar with Morris Proctor. You will leave that seminar feeling you control Logos rather than it controlling you. I am a very motivated independent learner, and normally hate seminars of all kinds, but I am soooo glad that I attended this. It will make your investment in Logos worthwhile.

Wyn