In L3 there is a Bible Speed Search. Is there one in L4?
The speed of a normal bible search makes it unnecessary....
....or at least that's the official response that many disagree with :-) I'm ok without it, but wouldn't mind to see it. is that wishy washy enough?
I would like to see the Bible Speed Search added back not because of the speed but because of how the show-as-you-type results change the dynamic of the search.
[:)] Yeah, I agree with Logos on this one...
Having a search start running before you've finished entering the query is methodologically flawed +/- bad programming IMHO, it wastes CPU time...
Jon,
i am just a lay person who is a very leaky vessel. So the speed search really helped me as i would type in a word (to the best of my leaky memory). i could see passages almost instantly (my computer & L4 are not near as fast). Then i often would backspace and type a different (2nd) word which often times would jog my leaky memory.
You are probably not near as leaky as i or possibly other.
If Logos adds another type (Basic Bible Speed Morph) then this would not hamper your CPU time.
just my 1.5 cents
Can you tell me how to do a normal bible search in L4? I know it is a basic question, but I dont see my Bibles except in the Library. Do I need to click on a Bible, open it up and search it or is there another way?
Does the following picture answer your question? Sorry...forgot to add the arrows :-)
Just click "Search" and then "Bible" in the upper right of the search window.
For a faster shortcut, type Alt+D (to put the focus in the command bar), type what you're looking for, and then press "Ctrl+Enter" to automatically search your top Bibles.
-- Bob
Thanks for reminding me of these shortcuts. I keep forgetting them.
Thanks. How do I change my top Bibles?
By prioritizing them. Open Library, and drag resources into the Prioritize list.
Some recommendations here: http://wiki.logos.com/A_Sample_Prioritize_List.
Thanks Phil. I have been having difficulties with Library. When I open it up, I get sluggish performance with my mouse. It is the only place where I have so far found difficulty controlling my mouse in this pane. Thus, I have not been able to set priorities etc. I dont know if anyone else has had such a difficulty. I am using xp and wonder if a program is causing it or if a bug is causing it.
I have been having difficulties with Library. When I open it up, I get sluggish performance with my mouse. It is the only place where I have so far found difficulty controlling my mouse in this pane. Thus, I have not been able to set priorities etc. I dont know if anyone else has had such a difficulty. I am using xp and wonder if a program is causing it or if a bug is causing it.
Try right clicking on Library and selecting "Open in New Tab". What effect does that have on performance?
Phil, your suggestion worked. The problem disappears when I open the Library in a new tab. Thanks so much for this tip. Now does this mean that there is some kind of bug that needs to be reported?
Mark
The problem disappears when I open the Library in a new tab. Thanks so much for this tip. Now does this mean that there is some kind of bug that needs to be reported?
What is your mouse and does it have the latest driver?
Yeah, I agree with Logos on this one... Having a search start running before you've finished entering the query is methodologically flawed +/- bad programming IMHO, it wastes CPU time...
Yeah, I agree with Logos on this one...
I understand this is your opinion, but would you be kind enough to consider an alternate perspective for a moment?
1st, it is not "methodologically flawed +/- bad programming" to start a query immediately IF that is the objective of the particular search function. And this is exactly what most people who have expressed regret over this loss of functionality want: To have instant, real time results as the search words are entered (Note Steve Clark's post). So yes, for some queries this would be a poor practice, but not in this case.
2nd, how does one waste CPU time? Unless you have a scenario where the CPU is forced to operate at maximum capacity by the current operation (not likely for the Bible Speed Search) or other tasks running simultaneously what difference does it really make? The most current multi-core CPUs can shutdown unneeded cores and reduce power consumption/heat, but is this really a critical issue here? I don't think so, since those CPUs could likely do a such searching with one core running at 1/2 its default speed. So this is not likely to be a real problem in this case.
3rd, if this is so poor a practice, how come every current search engine, including Logos, begin auto-completing your query while to type with high-probability selections. This speaks to the desire for real time results to improve efficiency. So why is it bad to extend this capability to a search which is limited in scope to a particular bible, and thus would have no problem operating efficiently and powerfully (as seen in L3).
Thus, this is clearly a case of loosing a feature that should be returned.
I am enthusiastically pleased with the overall product. But understand that numerous features present in L3 need to be restored, and trust that Logos will not only do that, but do it in an even more powerful manner.
Note: This is not meant to be argumentative, just taking an opportunity to present an alternate view of the value of this feature.
Steve, just to highlight....
Nicely worded and clear. It IS possible to disagree and not use the word crap! [Y]
I have a logitech wireless mouse with the latest drivers installed. But I also mentioned that the same thing happens when I use the mouse pad that comes with the notebook computer.
Hi Steve, thanks for your cogent and thoughtful response to myflippant remark, now I feel I owe you a justification for my opinion![:)]
I think the best way to respond might be to use an example:
Let'ssay I run a search in Bible Speed Search for "jesus christ son of god".As I type in that phrase, Logos 3 executes 23 different search queries,corresponding to the 23 different key strokes including spaces.
J,Je, Jes return 0 results; Jesu Jesus and 'Jesus ' each return identicalresults (though note that the search executes 3 times). Jesus C, Jesus Ch, Jesus Chr, Jesus Chri, Jesus Chris 0 results; Jesus Christ, 'Jesus Christ ' identical results. Andso on and so forth, of the 23 queries executed, 11 execute and give 0results, and the list of results is too long to be useful until I reach"jesus christ son".
This is why IMO searching as you type ismethodologically flawed; at the very most it should only re-execute thesearch query each time a word is completed - no meaningful results aregenerated in between. It is different entirely from theauto-complete suggestions that come up as you type in Logos4, this isachieved simply by comparing what you are typing to terms in the indexnot by actually running a search of the library for those terms.
While the system resource/CPU issue will very likely not be an issue in 10 years time. The Logos 3 engine was built to run run on computers over 30x less powerful than current machines, and I'm sure than in 10 years time if Moore's law holds and Logos 4 is still around then it will absolutely fly along (and no doubt these fora will be filled with the moans of people who're so used to the good old newspaper style homepage, they can't stand the new-fandangled 3d holographic video homepage of Logos 5 [:D]). However, it is what it is, and by planning for the future and building it on a new advanced graphical platform it is quite resource intensive, it means it is far more 'beautiful', customisable and versatile than before, but even simple tasks use more resources than they did previously because there is more work going on behind the scenes just to display the results. So, if I run a bible search in Logos 4 for 'jesus christ son of god' in my preferred bible, it takes a little under 2 seconds and in that time my CPU usage is ~50-70% (Quad core 2.4ghz). If that search were being restarted with each keystroke it really would be an unacceptable drain on system resources, as alway, IMO and YMMV [:)]
To finish with something constructive; I agree that there is a lack here. I think that the search philosophy used in Logos 4 based around indexing your entire library into one master index is excellent; you can run complicated searches across your entire library in seconds. While this is ideal for research and serious study, it is not ideal for the more casual search situation where you're trying to remember a verse and you can only remember a couple of words; or you can't quite remember how it goes, Bible speed search and fuzzy search were great for this. I think that while there could be another sort of search built for this scenario, I don't think merely reproducing Bible Speed Search is the answer for all the reasons outlined above - maybe the Logos gurus will come up with something even better? [:)]
Just a Q:
can someone give a sceneario where they'd like the "auto complete" of the BSS? I mean a specific example like "I was trying to find where this particular thing was but coudn't remember this...."
I'm just curious....
As someone who found the Speed Search helpful and would like to see it reimplemented, I don't think anyone is advocating that it replace the existing search options. I think we would just like to see it added back as an option. As an option, you would never have to use it if you don't find it helpful.
I, however, do find it helpful in certain circumstances. The immediate feedback of search results as you type provides an interaction with the text that I have found helpful when I am a bit fuzzy on the terms that I am looking for (ie. I know the gist of the verse but not sure exactly what the wording is).
As to the CPU argument, Speed Search performs fine in both L3 and Mac 1.2.2. I have never noticed any resource problems when using it in either of those versions. In L4 all entries in search fields are also executing immediate searches on indexed terms for the entire library not just the Biblical text. I really don't think that CPU utilization is that big of an issue
I think Bob P has agreed with both Jon and me in another post and hinted that Speed Search will return with improvements.
See this post for Bob's comments and some suggestions for how it might be implemented:http://community.logos.com/forums/t/3483.aspx
Great points, and helpful to understand the thinking behind your first post. I particularly like your last, constructive comment. [:D]
I think Logos can not only create something equivelent in function to the BSS of L3, but improve on it and make something even more useful.
Just a Q: can someone give a sceneario where they'd like the "auto complete" of the BSS? I mean a specific example like "I was trying to find where this particular thing was but couldn't remember this...." I'm just curious....
can someone give a sceneario where they'd like the "auto complete" of the BSS? I mean a specific example like "I was trying to find where this particular thing was but couldn't remember this...."
The one that comes to mind is I couldn't recall the exact reference, nor what the key words were (between different versions), for a verse I knew was in Jeremiah. Prosperity and calamity? Welfare and harm? (Jer 29:11) So with a quick bit of trial and error I was able to come up with the reference. [:)]
I agree. I used the speed search more than any other search for the very reason that Steve mentioned. I can live without it, but I sure did like having it.
I also agree. I love L4 but turn often to L3 for the BSS
I have just got my L4 up and running. First thing I missed is BIBLE SPEED SEARCH.
Hope to see it implemented in L4 soon. Perhaps with an OPTION to turn on exact match for the spelling but not the sequence of the words from the search string would be nice.
For example, doing a search in BSS for "test" would return test / tested / testing / tests. It would be good to be able to restrict it a little especially when you have more than a single word in the search string. Kind of like "Word1" AND "Word2" AND "Word3" ...... using BSS.
Casey,
Check out the Logos WIKI for searching...
http://sites.google.com/site/logos4wiki/faq/searching
You can set to "no stem" in the drop down menu of a search window..
I like the command bar feature to search, but can we have more options than "top bibles" and "entire library"? I would like to use the command bar with a shortcut key for let's say preferred or open bible.
Edb
Ed:
Our development plan includes richer searching syntax in the command bar, like "search in <collection>". So stay tuned!
Thanks for your explanation of the tech stuff behind the decision making. This makes a lot more sense now. I have been missing the fuzzy and speed search features of L3 and this helps clarify. Still hope to see the features come back separately at least for Bible searches.
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