Preparing your library???

I'm new to mac and new to LOGOS (Alpha 4) and have this "PREPARING YOUR LIBRARY" window with the revolving candy-cane stick. This window has been on the desk top for about 35 hours, am I caught in a loop or is this proper? Any advice or instruction would be helpful. Thanx... John

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Michael Kares

a) it shouldn't take that long and b) A 5 came out last night. Upgrade

Have a happy Thanksgiving

Michael Kares

Rosie Perera

To Logos: How is it that all these newbie users are ending up with an Alpha release of software? That is incredible. Even beta releases are usually restricted to a small community of specially invited users who are willing to go through the hassles of dealing with buggy unfinished software, but an alpha release is even more unstable. Yes, there's a disclaimer that this is a pre-release Alpha version on the website (if you happen to notice it, which anyone excited to finally get a Mac version might not, and any newbie might not realize the implications of). But one shouldn't "ship" Alpha software...ever! It's irresponsible to let newbies get into this situation, and it sure makes a lot more work for Logos and Forum folks to support them through it.

Jack Caviness

How is it that all these newbie users are ending up with an Alpha release of software?

Rosie

The Mac community—myself included—has given Logos much flack over the time it has taken to produce a Mac version. When L4 was released for Windows, perhaps Bob & company thought ti better to release a public Alpha than to endure more grief from rabid Mac users. Maybe the Windows crowd are more docile. [8-|]

Are you a Mac user or just curious?

Jack

Rosie Perera

The Mac community—myself included—has given Logos much flack over the time it has taken to produce a Mac version. When L4 was released for Windows, perhaps Bob & company thought ti better to release a public Alpha than to endure more grief from rabid Mac users. Maybe the Windows crowd are more docile.

I see. So now instead they get flack from people struggling with the public Alpha and other onlookers feeling sorry for those struggling. Waiting is tough, but it's worse to push something out the door prematurely, IMHO. The rabid Mac users like you who were giving Logos a hard time about not having a Mac version yet would have been prime candidates to use the Alpha. But foisting it on unsuspecting new users is not fair. It just saddens me to see one poor struggling newbie after another posting here on the Forum about their woes. You might think they are better off with the Alpha than if they hadn't had Logos at all. But I think there is much to be said for delayed gratification. At the very least they should have MUCH LARGER warnings on the website about the fact that this is an ALPHA which means PRE-BETA which means UNSTABLE SOFTWARE: USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!

Are you a Mac user or just curious?

I'm a Windows user. Just curious. I've been bummed enough by the bugginess and incompleteness of even the shipped version for Windows to feel great sympathy for the poor Mac Alpha users. I got in for only the last two weeks of the Win beta and was kind of surprised that they thought it was ready to ship already when it did. I know this is a new world with automatic downloads of bug-fix releases from the Internet, but I'm still a purist, having grown into my profession as a programmer in the earlier days when you had to make sure there were no crashing bugs -- which we called "show-stoppers" -- before shipping a product. We would even recall a disk from manufacturing if they'd already started duplicating it if we found a show-stopper crashing bug. Our bar got ever higher for what would be a "show-stopper" the closer we got to our RTM (release to manufacturing) date, but we weren't so averse as Logos has been to slipping that date if need be, if we didn't feel the software was ready. I know we got a lot of flack in the press for slipping ship dates, but we were also a very successful company. You might have...um...heard of us. [;)] (Hint: It was the same company where I got to know Bob before he started Logos.)

J.R. Miller

I'm a Windows user. Just curious. I've been bummed enough by the bugginess and incompleteness of even the shipped version for Windows to feel great sympathy for the poor Mac Alpha users.

You should contact Microsoft and have some discussions about Windows Vista :-)

Bob Pritchett

I got in for only the last two weeks of the Win beta

That was the problem, Rosie... we meant to have you in the beta for 8 weeks, which would have found all the bugs! :-)

(For the record, Rosie is one of the best testers I ever encountered...particularly rare since she was a developer! She was sending me bugs before there was even a Logos Bible Software...)

Alas, it is a new world. These young programmers not only allocate memory in chunks bigger than 64kb, they don't know the difference between near and far pointers....

The size of the "Mac Warning" has been a great internal debate, and it's getting more prominent.

Rom

Just upgraded to Logos 4 -- and I too have gotten the "Preparing Library" for about half an hour now. How long should it take? (I'm on Alpha 5)

Jack Caviness

know this is a new world with automatic downloads of bug-fix releases from the Internet, but I'm still a purist, having grown into my profession as a programmer in the earlier days when you had to make sure there were no crashing bugs -- which we called "show-stoppers" -- before shipping a product.

I had to go back and carefully read your post to make sure I knew what you said. I was going to ask if you had ever worked in the Macintosh Business Unit (I believe that is their name). But I realized you said no crashing bugs and not no bugs in shipping products. I have a love/hate relationship with Word for the Mac that goes back to version 1.1 [8-|]

The rabid Mac users like you who were giving Logos a hard time about not having a Mac version yet would have been prime candidates to use the Alpha. But foisting it on unsuspecting new users is not fair.

I do enjoy your posts, but do you really think I deserve this? But then, you could think I am getting better than I deserve [:D]

Actually, I really like L4 for Windows, and I wait with eager anticipation for the Mac version to reach parity.

John Moyer

You have an excellent point. However, it's one of those circular thought patterns where "if you don't know then I can't tell you" situations. 1) I would expect any legitimate company NOT to release a half baked version of anything for consumers 2) Consumers would have to know the meaning of "ALPHA" to understand the pitfalls 3) Disclaimer or not, to have to navigate to another page to read the disclaimer when said consumer is ready to purchase/checkout is deceptive. However, I'm attempting Parallels 5 to get the most out of LOGOS and I anticipate LOGOS to be well worth the not so painful headaches. Thanks for the reply but you didn't present any solution, you just ranted a bit.

John Moyer

Thanks bro.

Rosie Perera

However, it's one of those circular thought patterns where "if you don't know then I can't tell you" situations. 1) I would expect any legitimate company NOT to release a half baked version of anything for consumers 2) Consumers would have to know the meaning of "ALPHA" to understand the pitfalls

Very good observation. People wouldn't be expected to know they wouldn't want an Alpha version unless they'd tried one before and been stung by it. So it'd be a Catch-22 if it were up to the users to decide whether they wanted an Alpha release or not. (I was suggesting that warning only as a way to put the horse's rump back in the barn; too late to put the whole beast back in.) However, I expect legitimate companies (especially Christian ones) to be good shepherds of their users and prospective users and take care of them in areas where their users might be uninformed. So that means not putting out an Alpha version for the whole world to see, but rather only inviting (privately) a few known power users to try it out to get the kinks worked out. That's how they did the Beta for the Windows version, so it really surprised me to see them doing the Alpha publicly.

3) Disclaimer or not, to have to navigate to another page to read the disclaimer when said consumer is ready to purchase/checkout is deceptive.

Definitely!

Thanks for the reply but you didn't present any solution, you just ranted a bit.

Sorry for you having to read my rant; this was just the most logical place I thought of to put it at the time (in the context of yet another new user having problems), though perhaps if I'd thought about it a microsecond longer I wouldn't have. Too late to move it now, alas. As of course you understood, it wasn't directed at you. And Bob (CEO of Logos) read it and I think appreciated it (he knows me well enough by now to not be put off by anything I might complain about).

And sorry as well for not presenting any solution. I'm not in a position to be able to do so, as I'm not a Mac user. I don't know the Mac at all. Sounds like someone else helped you out, for which I'm glad. I hate having to see people struggle with this awesome software. I was trying to be sympathetic to you, but it didn't come across that way, so again, I'm sorry.

Jack Caviness

You have an excellent point. However, it's one of those circular thought patterns where "if you don't know then I can't tell you

Thanks for the reply but you didn't present any solution, you just ranted a bit.

John, it would help greatly if you would include a portion of the message to which you are responding. I wasn't sure whose post had inspired your post. I know I could have just clicked the "Replied" button, but that would be just like needing to click a link to find the Alpha disclaimer.