Biblical People database

I just noticed that I got updates to the "Biblical People Diagrams Database" and recalled that some users complained about the half-brothers of Jesus.

I am not disappointed that these half-brothers are not included on either of the Family Tree: Jesus (son of God) diagrams. If I click on John (the Baptist) family tree I see all the cousins, If I click on Mary (Mother of Jesus) I see the other sons. But if I click on Jesus - nothing. (Granted they are not mentioned in the Matthew 1 and Luke 3 geneologies) but other family trees seem to be a correlation of mutiple texts

I realize Logos is walking a fine line trying to serve multiple Christian traditions, but this example seems to tip away from the conservative evangelical protestant tradition.

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Comments

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

I don't think these diagrams changed in the update. I still have the previous version of the resource (2012-06-14T20:12:50Z) and the diagrams look exactly as you describe.

David Thomas

I am not disappointed that these half-brothers are not included on either of the Family Tree:

Typo: should read "I am NOW disappointed"

response: you are probably correct that the same diagram was in previous versions. I never noticed back then. I just thought to check it out when I saw the update. As I said, I know Logos is walking a thin line trying to placate various traditions.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411596#Comment_411596

You do raise a good point: I can't think of a good reason why those diagrams shouldn't be the same (between Jesus, Mary, and John the Baptist); if the information is shown for one person, we should show it for all. I'll pass this feedback along.

fgh

If I click on John (the Baptist) family tree I see all the cousins, If I click on Mary (Mother of Jesus) I see the other sons.

It seems there are two John (the Baptist) family tree's:

And two Mary (Mother of Jesus) family trees:

Yes, they are identical, except for the length of a couple of the lines. They are so identical, in fact, that I am not absolutely sure I didn't mix up which two were John and which two were Mary. (I tried to save space here by not copying the entire screen.)

But if I click on Jesus - nothing.

That's because none of those charts are on 'Jesus' per se. They are on Jesus' genealogy according to Mt 1:

and on His genealogy according to Lk 3:

And none of these chapters mention any siblings.

I can't think of a good reason why those diagrams shouldn't be the same (between Jesus, Mary, and John the Baptist)

From the above, it seems to me that the issue isn't with the 2 trees that are there (which do exactly what they claim to do), but rather that there aren't any simple 'Jesus' ones, parallel to the ones for John and Mary.

this example seems to tip away from the conservative evangelical protestant tradition

No offense, but it never ceases to amaze me that modern Evangelicals can think of post-Enlightenment ideas as 'conservative'. The conservative evangelical (as the Reformers used the word) protestant tradition -- held by Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Bullinger, Wesley, and just about everyone else in their days -- was/is that Mary remained a virgin all her life. The idea that she didn't is actually a modern liberal tradition.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412019#Comment_412019

No offense, but it never ceases to amaze me that modern Evangelicals can think of post-Enlightenment ideas as 'conservative'. The conservative evangelical (as the Reformers used the word) protestant tradition -- held by Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Bullinger, Wesley, and just about everyone else in their days -- was/is that Mary remained a virgin all her life. The idea that she didn't is actually a modern liberal tradition.

No offense taken. You are correct that I understand the two family trees of Jesus are accurate representations of Mt 1 and Luke 3. When I found the Mary and John the Baptist family trees represented in the right side of your screenshots, I thought there should also be a Jesus family tree that included the larger family.

the description conservative, evangelical Protestant may be a small slice of Christendom historically, but I believe (I have no hard data to support this perception) it is a rather large slice of the Logos user base (in North America anyway). I also respectfully disagree with your claim that half-brothers of Jesus is a post-enlightenment idea--a plain reading of the gospels appears to reveal that this idea was held by citizens of Galilee who were contemporaries of Jesus. This idea may have been lost and was later reclaimed, but it isn't new.

i have no intent of beginning a theological debate (which seems to always denigrate into name calling on these forums). My intent was to make an observation about a logos resource. As I have already stated twice in his thread, I realize the Logos user base is diverse theologically and I can respect that diversity. Since a logos employee has noted my observation, I will post no further in this thread.