Disappointed
I've been a user with Logos since about 2000-2001. I first bought the Scholars package when you still had to insert the disk into the computer to use the program. I recall I spent upwards of almost $500 for the program (I didn't really have at the time) for the program and it was only mildly helpful. A lot of "fluff" that I would never use was included with the software.
Later I had to upgrade to a Libronix system (free). That was not a very helpful system either.
Now a month and a half ago I speak to the rep. At the tune of $124/mo. for 12 mos. I upgrade to Logos 4 Platinum. I am excited. He tells me:
I am getting almost 1200 books.
I am getting the latest version and he assures me Logos is very slow releasing new versions and doesn't anticipate one for a long time.
He further assures me not to worry. I was disappointed that I had previously spent almost $500 for books and will purchase them again. He says this time all he can do is give me a 15% discount but not to worry...if I purchase the software this time I'll never need to do so again. Future upgrades will be FREE. (I didn't hear the fine print behind what he said - like overlooking the asterisk in fine print.)
Now I open Logos today. SUPRISE! Logos 5! I get mine free...and my computer has upgrades downloading. It reopens to Logos 4...(background sound: whaa...whaa...whaa...)
I don't understand. So I click the link. It tells me my upgrade is over $600.
There is some misunderstanding. I call Logos and wait 30 min. on hold to speak to a woman with a strong accent that is a little difficult to understand.
Bottom line my "free" software won't be free after all. Why?
It's the shell game. Platinum isn't simply Platinum anymore. They changed the books that come with Platinum, so now I no longer have the second tier of Logos, I now have third tier software.
Since (new) Platinum comes with different books, it wouldn't be fair to give them to me free (agreed). So I can't simply upgrade my software "for free" unless my payments go up $40/mo. Ummmmm...that ain't free.
Some in this forum are saying, "Be patient. There will be a "crossover" package. My question still is this:
1.) Will it be free?
2.) Why is Logos taking care of their POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS before their loyal customer base? I was in sales for a while. I remember in one of our
meetings they told us that it is 20 times harder to get a new customer
than to retain one. I think Logos needs to think about that.
3.) Why didn't the rep on the phone advise me of an option to wait for something called a crossover?
4.) How long will it take to roll out the crossover package?
What hurts is I might expect this from Microsoft...but not from a company that is Christian-oriented.
So my upgrade is free (unless we change the books in the package, then it isn't [betcha didn't see that comin' tee hee]).
I guess I could even see not giving a free upgrade if 1) they hadn't told me it would be free and 2) it had been years since I purchased the software. But it wasn't. It was last month!
I even see some doubletalk on the Logos site. Someone sounding like a rep for the company corrected another forum member and says, "We never said all future upgrades would be free. We said you will never have to purchase your books again." Ummmm...sir, the rep on the phone definately said future upgrades would be free. That was a MAJOR SELLING POINT from my perspective. He assured me that the only future charges would be if I wanted to purchase more books.
Today, when I asked the representative to speak to a supervisor she told me he was busy and to try calling back in A MONTH! Wow! A month? Really? Now that's customer service!
I know how much time, effort and money must come with making this software - immense. I'm not asking for something for nothing. I am just asking for what I was promised.
Disappointed and feeling mislead,
Mike
Comments
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Mike,
I would suggest you contact Dan Prichett. He is the CEO of Logos and is very open to hearing your concerns. I don't have his email at this minute, but I'm sure someone else will post it.
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OT:
Ronald Quick said:Dan Prichett. He is the CEO of Logos
Actually, AFAIK, Dan is the brother (and VP of Logos) of the CEO, which is Bob. But both are, I think, open for customer concerns.
Have joy in the Lord!
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I'm feeling the same way here. This is shaky ground, Logos. I'm a pastor and we're all Christians here - so this is no anonymous threat. But seriously, you're messing with a lot of loyalty. I went all in about 12 months ago for Platinum. I even pursued a big old beefy computer to drive all of it with my fat monitor on my desk. Now I'm set. But wait, I'm not set - with this Logos 5 release! Your release is so confusing and then we all learn that Platinum doesn't mean Platinum anymore, and that I would have to pay for a whole new platinum. Crossgrade isn't really doing it for me either.
I bought these hundreds and hundreds of books. Do I want to buy anymore on Logos? Probably not, if this is how it's going to be. I'd rather have books on my shelves if this is what life is going to be like from here on out. I'm trying to be a fan, I have been a fan, I paid like I'm a fan - but now you've pulled the rug out from under me. The prices for the books is often times the same as buying the book (look at my purchase history - those are the ones I'm talking about). So why would I want to continue on with you?... or brag about you to my pastor friends?
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Michel D. Mahler said:
I know how much time, effort and money must come with making this software - immense. I'm not asking for something for nothing. I am just asking for what I was promised.
Disappointed and feeling mislead,
Michael, thank you for such a detailed and thoughtful post. I easily placed myself in similar scenarios that occurred in my life. I also recommend you call or email Logos. I think "waiting a month" seems pretty sounds not very customer friendly and certainly is of no help to you. At the same time, it is a crazy time for Logos, and as a fellow human I know we all have limitations. But not only could you call, but try emailing Bob. He may not get to it right away, but he does get to them. it is his first name at logos dot com. i forget dan's, but it may be similar. I don't remember if he openly takes email or not.
You've identified several concerns that are very valid. Feel free to post back what you have encountered. I look forward to hearing more.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I understand why so many are upset with all the confusion. I think probably the best thing they could have done is rebranded all the base packages in Logos 5.
Let me try to offer some perspective, This past March/April I bought a IPAD 3, at a heavy investment cost to me (particularly to use Logos). So i went to reading the press conference they had a few weeks ago to learn about the Ipad mini they were bringing out, this fall and discovered that they were Refreshing the Ipad line with a fourth Generation with a better processor, connection, etc. Needless to say I was not happy as I had just less than six months ago bought the most current Ipad they had. Even in my frustration with apple, I never once thought Apple owes me a loyal customer who is heavily invested with many of their products. I bought an Ipad 3 and guess what I still have an ipad 3, just as you still have all the books from whatever package you have, that does not change. (In fact im glad i got the L4 package a 1.5 years ago because it had the Pillar commentaries and NIGTC, BDAG so on, which are no longer in the L5 base packages)
I Know we are all heavily invested with Logos, and some feel they have been misled or burned. I think we all need to take a deep breath, step back, and view things in perspective. I am not trying to antagonize anyone, but it seems like anytime something new comes people lose their minds in frustration for a brief moment.
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I am very disappointed as well. It seems like Logos isn't being faithful to those who have been faithful to them. I upgraded to the platinum library a few months back, and I have been adding books to my library regularly for a while. I even received an email from 2 different CSR's within the last 6 weeks asking if I was interested in some books that are on my wish list because they were discounted at the time. I passed. Now.... These books are part of the new Platinum and Diamond packages. WOW... Really??? Now I find out that my Platinum library isn't Platinum. If I want to keep my Platinum status then I can stay with L4 or pay even more for the new L5. I don't know Logos.... You really have me thinking twice about on our continued relationship.
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Ok...here is what I've discovered.
The rep who sold me the software is on vacation, so I spoke to Bart (who is very friendly and helpful).
The bottom line is this:
1. There will likely be a crossover program but nobody knows when. Rolling out Logos 5 is top priority right now so it could be months or even more than a year...nobody knows.
2. Technically my rep did not lie to me (rather he told me what he thought was the truth, based upon what his superiors told him). I get the feeling that sales reps are left almost completely in the dark about when upgrades are coming out. They are all scrambling to learn just what the new features are and what books are different as they try to sell the program (bad idea). Bart had no easy way to tell me exactly how many books I got on my last purchase that are no longer available and how many books I will have total now (I should think that might be a useful sales tool).
3. In my case I had bought Platinum. But Platinum, you see, is no longer "Platinum." The new Platinum includes several books not included in the "old Platinum" but is also missing several books from the old Platinum. New Platinum is closer to the old Portfolio, but not really (???). In my case this is somewhat good because my upgrade allows me to keep all of the books in the old Platinum but also receive everything everything added to the new Platinum. (Have I lost anyone yet?)
What really attracts me to L5 is the capabilities this new software offers. It is much more powerful than 4 with some really cool features that I know will be helpful to me.
So...I reluctantly took the plunge...my payments increase $40/mo. Am I thrilled? Hardly. (This thing better write awesome sermons for me!) But I feel like I really need this to be efficient with the time I spend with my studies.
For future reference, Logos has lost my trust when they "guarantee" anything like "free upgrades." I won't even trust the software name will stay the same.
Me: "I thought future upgrades were free."
Logos: "I'm not sure what you were told. That's unfortunate." (a.k.a. it wasn't true or there was a HUGE misunderstanding)
Logos: "Um, well sir, Platinum WOULD HAVE BEEN a free upgrade, but seeing as we've changed the package so drastically, we no longer really consider Platinum to actually be Platinum, so you're gonna have to pay for it."
Me: "But it's still called Platinum."
Logos: "Well Platinum isn't Platinum anymore. Now it's Platinum...not the Platinum you have but the Platinum we currently sell."
Me: "Huh? Never mind. I want the new features. Tack $40/mo. onto my bill that I really shouldn't do." (Ugh!)
Why couldn't Logos have rolled out the crossover at the same time? It's not 100% clear when they will and though that seems to be the plan, there is no guarantee they ever will.Based upon past experience I wouldn't count on it. If and when they do...mark my words, it'll cost ya!
Why couldn't they just keep Platinum named Platinum and call this new Platinum by another name? How about even "Platinum Plus" or "Platinum 1.2" if you're so in love with retaining "Platinum"?
How confusing and frustrating. Logos 5 could have been such a wonderful roll out. Instead it's become walk through a maze of mirrors (confusion).
Like Logos, but they've lost some serious trust points with me.
Mike
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Michel D. Mahler said:
1.) Will it be free?
2.) Why is Logos taking care of their POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS before their loyal customer base? I was in sales for a while. I remember in one of our meetings they told us that it is 20 times harder to get a new customer than to retain one. I think Logos needs to think about that.
3.) Why didn't the rep on the phone advise me of an option to wait for something called a crossover?
4.) How long will it take to roll out the crossover package?
1. You will be able to update to the Logos 5 software for free. Doing so will not give you any new features nor new resources, so there's no hurry for you to do so. 4.6 is still supported. A 4.6 update went out as recently as Monday, I believe it was, and there are additional updates in the pipeline.
2. You'll have to talk to Bob about that. He does post frequently to the forums: http://community.logos.com/members/2130/default.aspx.
3. If you bought something from the rep and have now decided you'd rather wait for the crossover instead, Logos will undo the purchase.
4. I don't know, but I suspect it will be when the initial load on the servers dies down a bit.
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Michel, I wasnt thrilled with having to buy another upgrade also, I was stuck between Silver, Gold and platinum. I ended going with the platinum, and the reason i upgraded, was because many of the books included in my new package were on my wishlist, it was cheaper for me to jump all in, then wait and purchase them individually.
I agree with you also efficiency for me was also key, and man im loving, L5, i love the speed and feel of it. I have already used many of the new features and new books. So while im hurting over the price, It has instantly helped me. I really like the sermon starter guide also, its a great way to plunge into a text with, cross references and thematic outlines on topics, and themes within verses.
May the Lord bless you.
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Ronald Quick said:
Mike,
I would suggest you contact Dan Prichett. He is the CEO of Logos and is very open to hearing your concerns. I don't have his email at this minute, but I'm sure someone else will post it.
A slight correction: Bob Pritchett is the CEO (and creator) of Logos Bible software. Dan Pritchett is the VP of Sales (and Bob's brother.) Both are very accessible and care about keeping customers happy. Here are their email addresses:
Bob@Logos.com
Dan@Logos.com
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Updates to the software so you can continue read and use your books are and will continue to be free. Logos never promised it would be available free day 1. When it's released you will be able to update your software engine, which is exactly what they have promised. You were not promised that every new feature or resource would be free. If you want the extra resources or the new features they cost. If you want to keep the resources you have and don't want any of the new features then download the engine when released for free and keep reading and searching your resources.
The same thing happened with L4, if I wanted the free engine I was able to download them (I don't think it was available the same day). I could have gotten the new features by just crossgrading. I wanted the new features and more resources so I upgraded.
Logos has always promised that we would never pay more money to continue to read and use our resources. They have never promised to freely provide every new feature.
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Super Tramp said:
A slight correction: Bob Pritchett is the CEO (and creator) of Logos Bible software. Dan Pritchett is the VP of Sales (and Bob's brother.) Both are very accessible and care about keeping customers happy.
Thanks for the correction.
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Michel D. Mahler said:
Why couldn't they just keep Platinum named Platinum and call this new Platinum by another name? How about even "Platinum Plus" or "Platinum 1.2" if you're so in love with retaining "Platinum"?
I'm sorry for the confusion created by the package names. We've been "re-using" collection names for changing collections for many years. (We've had a "Scholar's Library" for over a decade.) The collections are always changing -- the (KF) (JG) and other letter designations reflect changed collections as books are added, removed, etc. based on user needs and publisher licenses.
This particular cycle involved much bigger changes to the collections than in the past -- we even did away with some names (like Christian Home, Bible Study Library, Leader's, etc.) and decided to standardize this time on a more obviously hierarchical value proposition: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, etc.
This name re-use has confused some people, for which I'm sorry. Having Platinum 4 doesn't mean you can only move to Platinum 5 -- you can upgrade to Bronze 5, or any other collection you'd like. In every case you just get (and only pay for!) what's different between what you have and what you're getting.
The levels are levels of book and content collections -- there isn't anything else to a level. We could call Platinum "The Fred Collection" -- it's just a named set of resources that's a different set than Bronze ("The Joe Collection"). We named them in hierarchy just to indicate which one has more resources. But really, all the 5 generation collections have more and different resources than the 4 generation.
-- Bob
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Mike, I think you have uncovered a common and frustrating human problem: communication! [:)]
To muddy it more in an attempt to clarify:
"upgrading to Platinum from Platinum" or any other such venture, never was free, and never was promised to be free.
What IS free is that you can upgrade to the newer engine and retain all your previously purchased library and resources. So, in that sense, Logos told you the truth.
What is different is that L5 includes several powerful tools, which, if you want them now, you much buy a resource package (silver, gold, platypus, etc) which gets you new books, new databases and Logos gets a way to recoup their heavy cash outlay. Or, if you can wait a bit, you can get a minimal crossgrade option, but it wont be due for a few weeks yet. You can also get the engine to read and purchase books but without the new features. I am a little more hazy at this point what exactly the basic engine is, but my guess is that it looks like Logos 5 graphically and has some of the performance features (faster notes etc), but no new databases.
Glad you called back. phew, that's a lot of work. and time. glad you had slightly better results this time. still understand there was some incongruent stuff. Did my comments above help at all?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I, too, am disappointed in LOGOS. From all I have read I believe did not do their research before making such a drastic shift that affects all of their long-time loyal customers in such a negative way. Talk about a move that have damaged their brand, this is it!
I have talked 12 pastors into buying LOGOS 4 this year. We were all going to go together to a training session in March of 2013. Now, I don't know if I want to mention it again. That will be another $225.00 and we would not even be learning the current software. Or maybe they will talk about LOGOS 5 and we will be sitting there with LOGOS 4. I am really disappointed we can't get an upgrade at an upgrade rate. What a bad day for LOGOS loyal customers as well as for the LOGOS brand!
Disappointed in Texas!
Jimmy
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Michel D. Mahler said:
So my upgrade is free (unless we change the books in the package, then it isn't [betcha didn't see that comin' tee hee]).
The software upgrade itself will be free, it's just not released on its own yet. But for the low, low cost of "waiting a little while" it will be.
Much of what's cool in the software upgrade, though, works in collaboration with some massive new databases. The 10 new databases are presently sold as part of new collections, which also contain lots of new books. Eventually we'll offer other purchase configurations, too, allowing many different purchase prices. You can get close to that now by "upgrading" your Platinum 4 to a Gold 4; you keep all your existing Platinum 4 content, and get the new databases and some new books.
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Bob Pritchett said:
We could call Platinum "The Fred Collection"
I actually kind of like that! Maybe I will just dub my L4 Portfolio "the Winston Churchill Collection."
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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If you have the logos logo under your name do you work for them?
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He's the boss
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how come hes being really sarcastic?
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Mitchell Borrows said:
how come hes being really sarcastic?
I don't believe Bob intended to post a sarcastic reply on the forum. I think there may just be some miscommunication happening; I re-read Bob's post and didn't see the sarcasm.
If you identify what you thought was sarcastic, maybe Bob could post a clarification explaining what he meant.
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Michel D. Mahler said:
I don't understand. So I click the link. It tells me my upgrade is over $600.
There is some misunderstanding.
Michel, I think you are misunderstanding what is going on. Here are a few facts:
- You will never pay twice for your resources
- The basic Logos search engine has always been free and still is with L5
- The basic, free, L5 search engine has not been released for download yet.
- Logos 5 has some enhancements that use some (not free) databases. If you choose not to upgrade to L5 with all the bells & whistles, and go with the free software instead, you will not experience the full capabilities of L5
Maybe it could have been introduced differently. Say, L5 free version (engine only) and L5 Plus (including all the new databases and graphics.) I do not think it is immoral or unethical fr Logos to charge for new resources (books) or for new databases that sweeten the L5 experience. I hope you check out what is new in the new L5 packages and reconsider the value for the money. If it is not for you then just be patient for a few more weeks until the basic engine gets released. I wish you well.
)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Jimmy Smith said:
I, too, am disappointed in LOGOS. From all I have read I believe did not do their research before making such a drastic shift that affects all of their long-time loyal customers in such a negative way. Talk about a move that have damaged their brand, this is it!
I have been through three major upgrades as a customer with them, and I would say that especially the last two have always been accompanied by growing pains. The Logos 4 you love and recommend was quite vilified and abhorred by others. I remember myself going through a steep learning curve, and this may sound strange, but I experienced a kind of grief or loss over the switch from 3 to 4. After about 2 months, however, I loved it. Your experience may be different, i'm just hoping to normalize that the change that happens usually causes upheaval, no matter how careful and prepared they are. And they find that they sometimes could have done a launch better. Makes me think of some of my attempts at switching church programs . . .
Jimmy Smith said:have talked 12 pastors into buying LOGOS 4 this year. We were all going to go together to a training session in March of 2013. Now, I don't know if I want to mention it again. That will be another $225.00 and we would not even be learning the current software. Or maybe they will talk about LOGOS 5 and we will be sitting there with LOGOS 4.
My guess is that by that time, all of you will have some version of the Logos 5, even if it is the basic engine only. And Mo will probably be aware that not all of Camp Logos 1 people will have Gold or higher, so he will spend time with those features that most all share. Camp Logos 2 might get into the more nitty gritty. I'd ask him straight up, however, rather than taking my word for it. I'm just guessing based on what they have done in the past. There is still a lot of similarity between 4 and 5, so that even having 4 will not render a Camp Logos unhelpful. much will be the same. That said, with a free engine, or minimal cross grade as options in the near future, by the time Camp Logos rolls around, you'll all be on the same page.
I am kind of envious you got that many guys together to do a camp. sounds like a lot of fun. I always went be myself, even though i tried to get guys to go with me.
Regardless, Mo is top knotch, and will work with you. His aim is to be helpful.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Mitchell Borrows said:
If you have the logos logo under your name do you work for them?
correct, they are employees or THE employer.
BUT, the ones with a star (like for me), we are just regular folks like you, not employees. We love Logos, hang out on the forums, try to help where we can, but we don't live or work in Bellingham--although technically we COULD live there. I live in MO.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
BUT, the ones with a star (like for me), we are just regular folks like you, not employees. We love Logos, hang out on the forums, try to help where we can, but we don't live or work in Bellingham--although technically we COULD live there. I live in MO.
Dan, you could invite over for lunch one of these days, or adopt me for a day, so that I could have an address in Bellingham. [:D]
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Amongst all the disappointments i would like to say that logos is the absolute best bible software out there and that it has helped me in so many ways. I couldn't imagine not having logos as part of my study life!!
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Mitchell Borrows said:
Amongst all the disappointments i would like to say that logos is the absolute best bible software out there and that it has helped me in so many ways. I couldn't imagine not having logos as part of my study life!!
Thank you, Mitchell for switching to such a wonderfully positive note! So much appreciated. Indeed!
I am the oldest MVP (ordinary guy - volunteer) and have been called Methusalah by a couple of my fellows, part of our trying to help those using the Logos Forums to maximise their use of Logos Bible Software. We are just simply volunteers who have been given the opportunity to "serve" those using the Logos Forums.
I am at just about 19 years of using Logos Bible Software and use this wonderful software to focus in on God's Word many times a day ordinarily. Over the years I have been involved with the Logos NewsGroups and the Logos Forums. So please permit me to share with you and others in these forums that I have never, ever heard Bob Pritchitt being "sarcastic"! That would be absolutely foreign to him.
I have just spent a few minutes in prayer concerning these matters. And I will be praying again about some of these matters. The Christian Church needs to be deeply into God's Word. It is so unfortunate that the Evil One comes to the fore when Christians are trying to communicate with each other on a very high plane. Let's be on our guard, please. Treating one another with honour and respect! Peace to all! and Always Joy in the Lord! *smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Lynden Williams said:Dan DeVilder said:
BUT, the ones with a star (like for me), we are just regular folks like you, not employees. We love Logos, hang out on the forums, try to help where we can, but we don't live or work in Bellingham--although technically we COULD live there. I live in MO.
Dan, you could invite over for lunch one of these days, or adopt me for a day, so that I could have an address in Bellingham.
i assume you mean Dan Pritchett. or maybe your Bahamian orientation is not too familiar with mainland US geography. Missouri is farrrrrr from WA. But, for that matter, you can come to St. Louis anytime you like, Lynden--come on over! As for me, I used to live within 70-90 miles of you . . . in Miami. A guy in my church was from the Bahamas--he recently passed away--and among the many things I remember about him: he had suits tailored to be short sleeved!I and he used to be a limo driver for the UN. Good man, he was. Full of stories.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Milford Charles Murray said:
I am the oldest MVP (ordinary guy - volunteer) and have been called Methusalah by a couple of my fellows
I did not call you Methusaleh [8-|]. If memory serves—and it may not as I am only a few months younger than you are—you asked who was older than you, and I replied "Methusalah?"
Seriously, the star under our avatars are sort of a prayer request. Logos has identified us a addicted to forum reading and posting. They then added a star to our avatar so other users would be warned not to fall into the same pit—Something like the television program Beyond Scared Straight [8-|]
We have somehow convinced Logos that we can actually assist people in their use of the software, and some who have the star are really helpful [:D].
it's getting late here; obviously, I need to go to bed.
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Dan DeVilder said:Bob Pritchett said:
We could call Platinum "The Fred Collection"
I actually kind of like that! Maybe I will just dub my L4 Portfolio "the Winston Churchill Collection."
As an owner of the Lord Chamberlain collection, I can upgrade to Churchill for only $295!! Woot!
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Dan DeVilder said:
What is different is that L5 includes several powerful tools, which, if you want them now, you much buy a resource package (silver, gold, platypus, etc) which gets you new books, new databases and Logos gets a way to recoup their heavy cash outlay.
I'm thinking I might have picked the wrong upgrade: Maybe the platypus one would have been better. (I'm wondering if that was a joke or a spell-checker overstepping and thinking cute furry animals are better than some kind of grey metal.)
Actually, I hope the one I went with will be just fine. Maybe more than I needed to spent (I could have waited and spent zero), but I looked at some of the sets that would be included, and after a few at $200 here, $375 there and so on, they added to well over the upgrade price. I know not everyone has spare cash, or more important, have other demaresources.nds on how they need to use it. For me, its in part a "treat" on account of the new job I start Monday.
Also, I've something spent more money on far less important things that my "investment" in Logos software / packages /
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Seriously, I am so sorry that I ever invested in Logos 13 1/2 years ago. This last announcement virtually killed any "love" I had left for the product. It's obvious Logos wants to be a "big boy" in business and play by "big boy" rules. Talk about a money pit! I feel sorry for those who tend to be impulsive in their buying because it's easy to spend THOUSANDS with Logos and later deeply regret it. I should have stuck with free Bible Software products and accessed many resources from the internet. I simply don't belong in the Logos economic class anymore! They have moved on and left me on the lower middle class category. I HATE to invest and regret it! My money is too valuable to me. ..
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Shawn Drewett said:
Seriously, I am so sorry that I ever invested in Logos 13 1/2 years ago.
Very sorry to hear you say that Shawn. You've been an active presence here.
That said, really Logos isn't for all. You've pointed out one group for whom Logos (and some other Bible Study software) could be a problem: people with impulsive buying habits. However there are others. Some don't need all Logos offers. They'd never use a third of it. Some buy hoping Logos will take the work out of Bible study. No software can do that. They are probably disappointed.
Logos is a library system that works best with a lot of resources. In the last three to five years Logos has managed to add a dizzying number of resources, enough of them of real interest to me to get me to pay for them. Logos works even better for me. The iPad app has been a real plus. I use it for other things but bought the iPad for Logos. Money, money, money.
The new upgrades are not compelling to me. I'm doing a lot of thinking about just waiting for the minimal crossgrade. But I'll keep using Logos.
As I said, sorry to hear you regret becoming part of the Logos community.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark, I believe yours is a very kind reply and I appreciate it. I believe you've got me pegged. IOW, I'll never use a third of it. I just regret I chose to make Logos my chosen bible software over 13 years ago. I had no way of knowing which way the company would go. It is Rolls Royce, and I am Dodge. If I could only get even as much as HALF as what I've spent on it!
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Shawn Drewett said:
I had no way of knowing which way the company would go. It is Rolls Royce, and I am Dodge.
Apt comparison, I suppose. Some wouldn't quite put it in the Rolls category from what I'm hearing the past few days.
Shawn Drewett said:If I could only get even as much as HALF as what I've spent on it!
I hope if you try to sell it you will. Sadly a large library is harder to sell than a small one.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Well, I wouldn't call mine large. It is 1100 books. Have you known anyone to sell their library and if so how much did they get?
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Hope this is a reasonable place to post this. I really can't tell but I feel I need to give my reaction.
I think the "New" old resources we are seeing in the new databases are things they can't sell separately. I already own a package with lots of stuff I have not had time to read. So just create a new version, add functionality to it that people will want, add in some "New" resources, and charge a lot for it.
Tell them all the package they have had still is theirs to use. It just is, well disabled a bit compared to what is in the new databases; which is what is needed to use the new features. Maybe I am wrong but who really knows.
I already own the 3 NT Wright works “Christian Origins and the Question of God Series” but the upgrade shows them as new to me (granted I got them as part of a bigger set and they are individually named in my library). I already paid for 106 issues of themelios. Now I will have 111. That is not worth $550.00 to me. NAC commentary has 40 volumes marked as new to me but I have most of the old and new testaments already. Believer’s commentary is not new to me and I have it hidden since I don’t use it. Now I have to pay for it again because it is on the list as new to me.
If you want me to pay for a software upgrade (I just gave Microsoft $15.00 for their OS) I will pay for it. But don’t charge me$550.00 or more because I already own such an expensive set as the Platinum one.
From my perspective I have to think in terms of a very simple mind. If I was just buying the software would pay $550.00 for it as an upgrade on its own. Not even close. I buy my Adobe Photoshop upgrades every other version because the few good new features are just barely worth $200. By the way even Adobe is reducing the price of their upgrades.
I truly believe that I have been given the impression over the years that I would never incur that sort of cost again. I know, I have seen your mention of a free or crossgrade or something version. But it is always followed by a very long explanation of but…
If I must I will pay this when I can adjust my year’s budget. The cost for me to Logos will be that I will cancel all prepub and community priced items. If in 2014 I feel I have made up for this expense I might start buying resources again. By the way Since I bought the upgrade to platinum in 2010 I have spent more than that on additional resources like the NT Wright set which the upgrade tool indicates will be new to me (sorry I already mentioned that).
Surprises should be left for Christmas mornings.
Wait a good surprise might be something like, pay us 550.00 for the upgrade and then we will let you pic from a long list of some resources you really don’t have already. Then you get those, in your database, and you know you are getting something you want. I think you just had a big sale on Calvin's Commentaries. I didn’t buy it then and I really don’t want to buy it now.
I see one thing in the list of platinum new or new to me items that I have ever really considered buying; and it was too expensive as well. That is the “Exegetical Summaries Series (24 vols.)”. But again if I have to buy this then I am not going to buy other things I want like Bock’s Jesus book when it is ready. Too bad you feel compelled to do my shopping for me.
Sorry for any nastiness I was unable to remove. I can imagine the Logos team sitting around planning meetings feeling certain that everyone is going to just be all kinds of excited. People were just going to be entering those credit card payments and agreeing to your long term payments.
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SHotchkiss said:
I already own the 3 NT Wright works “Christian Origins and the Question of God Series” but the upgrade shows them as new to me (granted I got them as part of a bigger set and they are individually named in my library). I already paid for 106 issues of themelios. Now I will have 111. That is not worth $550.00 to me. NAC commentary has 40 volumes marked as new to me but I have most of the old and new testaments already. Believer’s commentary is not new to me and I have it hidden since I don’t use it. Now I have to pay for it again because it is on the list as new to me.
Personally wish the upgrade page had a count of resources that would be new to me; personally have 12 volumes in a 15 volume collection so 3 volumes would be new. The upgrade page has the "New to you" icon on a line that shows one or more resource(s) would be added to a library.
Resources from previous purchases are still usable in Logos 5. To effectively use new features in Logos 5 needs new content; minimal crossgrade option is coming. For content, anticipate a package upgrade being better than a minimal crossgrade.
Suggest looking at all lines of what is new. Logos 5 changed the upgrade rules since can choose any package content, regardless of previous purchases. Also, the upgrade page includes credit for previous purchases.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Unfortunately, I am in that same boat as most of the posters here...except I am a brand new customer of Logos less than a month ago. I am now trying to decide what the best course of action to take is - refund, hang tight with software that is not what I expected, or ante up another $250ish to upgrade.
Very disappointing. Sent email to the customer service team that I was on the phone with for an hour and a half tonight, copying Bob and Dan as well.
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Welcome to the forums - even if this isn't a typical day at the forums. Joey, you do realize that you retain all the functions and resources that you have now without paying anything. Soon you'll be able to get the new engine for free as well. Any decision you make is about new features and resources.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I would get while can if you're like me- a person who doesn't teach or preach regularly.
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MJ - yes I realize that. But I also realize that even greedy Microsoft offers its customers a free upgrade if they purchase within a specified timeline.
I "thought" I was buying some of the new features that rolled out in Logos 5 that will NOT be in the engine upgrade when I purchased Silver.
I have found it very difficult to do the things that i need to do in Logos 4, and tonight's hour and a half conversation with three different people at Logos that could not tell me how to do something that was sort of implied in Logos 4 was a rude awakening. One of them tried to help by sending me instructions on how she thought it worked. Only problem, which proved my point dramatically - she sent me instructions from Logos 5 which do not match up with Logos 4.
Shawn...I think you missed a word or two. I am a bi-vocational preacher that preaches 1-2 times a month, teaches on a regular basis and is in school for Biblical studies. I am a candidate of Logos software, but I feel extremely short-changed right now.
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Joey:
I'm not in marketing or sales, but I'm confident they'll work hard to do right by you. This is a very intense time for our staff (witness the number of people responding on the forums at 11PM Bellingham time!), and there's been a lot of confusion about the new packages. But Logos has a very strong history of solid customer support, as many others on the forums (who don't work for Logos) will attest. If for some reason you didn't get what you expected with Silver, I'm sure the sales team will be glad to refund your money or find you the right package.
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Question about the features:
It appears that the features have tiered pricing. Meaning, you get more features with each higher priced package. I was under the impression that the only differences in the packages were the products and not functionality. Am I looking at this correctly? Is this new for Logos? I also have Accordance and it doesn't seem to have functionality differences between the different packages. Please help me understand this very confusing upgrade.
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As I recall, Reverse Interlinears in L4 were not accessible in lower base packages. In the same way, Biblical Sense Lexicon is only available NOW in L5 Gold and higher, but Bob said it would be part of the minimal cross grade when it becomes available in a few weeks for <$100.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Thanks Sean. I am hoping to get a better answer tomorrow. I just can't afford to upgrade just a month since purchasing to get the features that I thought I had to start with. Maybe when I was researching a month ago I was reading info from beta of 5 or something. I don't know. This is my first experience with Logos. Great software..not so great though if I keep having to pay to get it the way it is marketed.
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Yes they do why
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Hey Joey. I have purchase the bilingual and schlers library. Is there an extre discount for plz. I have been a faithful customer
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Hey Joey
My name is Azareel. And I have purchase the bilingual library the very top one and the schalers library. And I want to get logos 5. Is there a way for you to help and understand me? Plz. Can you please help me.
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I am not with Logos. I am simply a frustrated customer.
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